372 replies to this topic

[Wispsy]

Mystere, on 23 July 2014 - 08:02 PM, said:

That's odd. I've been playing 16:00-8:00 GMT Monday and Tuesday and 14:00-20:00 GMT Wednesday and I seem to have been seeing the full 3/3/3/3 compliment (at least on my team which I was counting).

http://www.twitch.tv...pro/b/550550984

This was 2 hours yesterday. I was not there for the first couple so I do not know but in the 2 hours I was playing there is more then one game in which we have zero lights and I am confident saying there were only actually 3 lights in one single game...and they were 3 Kit Fox's which were completely useless...

Edited by Wispsy, 24 July 2014 - 06:15 AM.

[Transcendence]

I'm no physicist (though I might pose this to the one I do know), but i'm fairly sure the issues with light mech fall damage stems from the calculations that the game engine users to determine fall speed, and an adverse interaction between forward momentum and the mechs weight.. It isn't calculating "fall" damage so much as it's calculating "throw" damage, or in other words, a light traveling at 150 is having a huge percent of its speed added into the fall calculation, as if it were literally "throwing" itself downwards after it leaves a cliff(Or pebble, lol), whereas heavier mechs cannot attain the same top speed, therefore cannot "throw" itself down from the cliff as hard.

Remember, fall speed is constant - 32m/s^2, or thereabouts. Go drop two things, they'll hit the ground at the same time. Now do it in mwo, with a light at full tilt going off a cliff at the same time as an assault. (disclaimer: I have not tested this thoroughly) while I'm fairly sure they will hit the ground at the same time (fall speed being universal), the lights fall speed will be drastically higher. Again, because it's not actually calculating fall speed, but rather a different number entirely (forward velocity?).

What say you, PGI? Also, if some industrious community member wants to test this theory, I thing we'll all be interested in the results. I wound, but my house just got packed to move, lol.

[El Bandito]

Make it so that only Lights can carry Artillery/Airstike module.

Voila.

[CeeKay Boques]

El Bandito, on 24 July 2014 - 06:56 AM, said:

Make it so that only Lights can carry Artillery/Airstike module.

Voila.

I almost disagreed with you because i could see commanders forcing the electronic packages for their lights, in to AA only, but then I remembered the new Module Subsections. Only lights get the subsection. I like it.

[Mister Blastman]

El Bandito, on 24 July 2014 - 06:56 AM, said:

Make it so that only Lights can carry Artillery/Airstike module.

Voila.

Exactly!

[Magna Canus]

I have 10 favorite mechs across the 4 weight classes, 2 of which are lights. Whenever I solo drop I do it in each for the x2 XP bonus, and then mostly run a heavy for its good balance of both speed and firepower. I tend to play across a wide range of time zones as well.

In the group que I tend to run what the group needs the most, which usually puts me in a Raven 3L for ECM/Scouting since none of the guys really want to run a light (wonder why...?).

On certain days at certain times in the solo que I get disgusted with the people I am placed in match with and switch over to a Spider 5D or Raven 3L for "survivability". At those times I tend to get teams that suck more than a black hole ever could and only an ECM light can bug out and survive to fight on once your team gets murdered 11 to 2 in under 5 minutes. At that point the game is on; hide, find a weak target, strike, retreat, rinse+repeat. I actually had guys groan and moan "just die, I want to drop again" and "on no, it's another Magnakanus match" (real quote). Those games net me maybe 1 or 2 more kills, but it takes ages due to damage output and usually don't end up with my team winning (11 minus 2 =9 left).

On other days I get those Gaus+PPC pilots that can leg you 1km away and seem to smell you 2km away and I'll be darned if I run a light on such days.

What I am saying is that running a light for me is situational. If the team needs it, ok. If not, even better. If that is the only way to be mobile enough to not burn for my PUG teams ineptitude, then ok, otherwise not. I am more effective in every other weight class because I can put more damage down range than in a light with less effort. My "heavy hitter light" does max 30 damage over 1 second burn time (Jenner F). My mediums do better and have FLD to boot.

I agree that it takes more effort and skill to be successful in a light than in any other chassis which is why fewer people play that weight class overall. Good players will be good in any chassis, even lights, and a few even thrive and excel in lights. I can only assume that since there are no "Lights are OP" threads on the forum anymore and the fact that when I am on at widely variable times the % of lights waiting for a match are significantly less than the other weight classes, that lights are disadvantaged for the broader, "average" player base. Add to that the fact that being terrible in an assault may still net you 100+ damage, that is rarely the case for the same player in a light.

[Mercules]

Wolfways, on 23 July 2014 - 08:52 AM, said:

It doesn't matter what words you use. If you are not willing to play something you don't like you are punished for it by having to wait longer. Not everyone likes all weight classes.

As I stated before: I am not willing to play an Assault mech or really even Heavies. Currently I am punished for not bringing the biggest mech with the biggest guns because I earn less C-Bills and XP. So by your own reasoning, how is that fair? I keep poking at your point because it is hypocritical. Light mechs are currently PUNISHED by the rewards system but it would be punishment for large mechs if their wait times increased because they couldn't join a map without a light around? Seems like the C-Bills/XP per hour of game play would then even out at least.

Wolfways, on 23 July 2014 - 10:49 AM, said:

I completely disagree with this. All mechs should get exactly the same rewards for everything.

They don't though. Lights carry half the firepower of an Assault. XP/C-bills are based off damage and kills, not how fast you get across a VERY small map that an Assault can cross in a decent ammount of time. As it is, going faster doesn't really help much. Without communication flanking maneuvers don't work so the "move faster" role is pretty much a bust because that is one of the primary purposes of moving faster. With an Active Probe, Command Console/Targeting computer you can now light up mechs from across most maps so the "scouting/spotting" isn't even a role.

The main thing being rewarded in matches is Firepower so those that can carry half the firepower are not being rewarded for thier efforts. There is a choice in what players want to play but it is a bad choice and a good choice and not really an EQUAL choice.

[InspectorG]

If we dont get CW soon(ish...) at least give lights more module slots with a robust selection of exclusive modules than can simulate recon/guerrilla/scout/capping warfare.

There is no reason other than thrill or 3/3/3/3 reqs to take a light.

[Almond Brown]

Mad Porthos, on 22 July 2014 - 03:49 PM, said:

stuff

"Third, if they take any damage, even .08 from a single machine gun bullet to ANYWHERE ELSE on them, even a fully armored area, they are stun locked to 15kph for like 5 seconds. If that 5 seconds pass, they get to limp at 40kph again for a moment, but another splash of machine gun, perhaps a teensy bit of long range laser grazing across their arm... stun lock again, 15kph for 5 seconds."

Can anyone verify this?

I have shot many many Lights and have never seen a non-legged light get "stun Locked" for 5 seconds. Upon landing after a Jump, it takes time, 2-3 seconds to accelerate, but "stun locked for 5 seconds" via negligible damage???

[Almond Brown]

Trauglodyte, on 23 July 2014 - 12:42 PM, said:

That's kind of the point, though. In Conquest, Lights have a role. Their role is Robert Paulson, I mean their role is to cap and cap pull.

But it always seems that when a Conquest Match gets drawn, all the Light Pilots like to pretend they are just faster Mediums or Heavies ffs. Yes, there is no "extra" rewards for capping etc, but that is true for everyone.

If they were to provide "bonuses" just to Lights in the Conquest Match type, then exactly 6 of the 24 participants of that Match could benefit from them while, if desired, that same 6 could gain fully from the existing Damage and Kill rewards. Or do those Lights suffer offsetting penalties in Dam/Kill when and if they get offered some form special Conquest Role based bonuses?

The only solution for the Lights is to remove the Leg hit-boxes all together, add that pittance of armor to the upper torso, so the total remains the same, and kill them from the waste up instead of the waste down.

That dopes not sound very BT'ish to me though...

[Almond Brown]

Sandpit, on 23 July 2014 - 05:04 PM, said:

well of course. You can always tell the difference when someone is doing something they like and enjoy as opposed to JUST for a paycheck.

Yup, one is called "Making a Living", the other is called a "Hobby". Unless you have a rich uncle who likes you a lot, or won the Lottery, a "full time Hobby" is a tough gig to maintain and eat well too. LOL

Mystere, on 23 July 2014 - 05:10 PM, said:

That's 4% waiting in the queue, not 4% actually playing.

Don't spoil it for him dude. He has PGI right where he wants them LOL!

Adiuvo, on 23 July 2014 - 06:34 PM, said:

That there's this few in queue means they're being sucked up instantly by the matchmaker. Which also means that there are hardly any lights playing.

So you know how many "instances" are running? Do share...please.

Edited by Almond Brown, 24 July 2014 - 08:48 AM.

[Almond Brown]

Be Rough With Me Plz, on 23 July 2014 - 07:24 PM, said:

That's more like a penalty to the other weight classes. You can't really take something that was available to all and then suddenly make it exclusive to one class. This is especially so with the upcoming and unknown changes to Modules Slots and possibly to Modules themselves.

Lights being in its current state is a symptom of fundamental flaws in the game itself. This is supposed to be a BattleTech game. It is not. This is a FPS with Mechs. The least used Mechs are the least efficient weapons. Lights have the worst payload to armor ratio so they are the least efficient weapon to bring to a deathmatch.

Of all the temporary band-**** regarding boosting the Light pilot population the most effective one would be increased C-bill rewards. Significantly increased C-Bill rewards. Including, but not limited to:

C-Bill rewards for spotting for all weapons - not just LRM's.
C-Bill reward for using BAP.
C-Bill for capping bases.
C-Bill for capping objectives.
Different C-Bill valuation for Kills.
Different C-Bill valuation for Assists.
Different C-Bill valuation for Component Destruction as a whole.
Different C-Bill valuation based on which Component you destroy.
C-Bill bonus for different damage tiers.
Different C-Bill valuation for UAV detection.

Pays to Play.

Yup, let's kill the use of the Medium Mech once and for all. Or do the Mediums then get better than the Heavies, who then get better than the Assaults?

Vicious circle suck balls and always will.

[Almond Brown]

Be Rough With Me Plz, on 23 July 2014 - 07:57 PM, said:

1. If you're in a 1v2 situation, that Frestarter is going to RT core you within 10 seconds while you're firing at that Cataphract.

2. More to do with netcode being fixed so Lights don't have lag-shields anymore.

1. LOL! And if you turn your back on the Phract too shoot the Light, you die in 5.

2. PGI fixes the code and gets shat upon by the Light pilots. Go figure. Maybe they should fudge the Hit code again, the QQ'ing of everyone bu the Light Pilots was bad then, but not near as bad as it now coming from the Light pilots. LOL

[Adiuvo]

Almond Brown, on 24 July 2014 - 08:49 AM, said:

So you know how many "instances" are running? Do share...please.

Assuming there's an equal distribution, or at least an attempted one (which 3/3/3/3 is), then you don't need to know the number of instances.

[Be Rough With Me Plz]

El Bandito, on 24 July 2014 - 06:56 AM, said:

Make it so that only Lights can carry Artillery/Airstike module.

Voila.

How do you think this would increase the Light pilot population?

[Be Rough With Me Plz]

Almond Brown, on 24 July 2014 - 08:58 AM, said:

1. LOL! And if you turn your back on the Phract too shoot the Light, you die in 5.

2. PGI fixes the code and gets shat upon by the Light pilots. Go figure. Maybe they should fudge the Hit code again, the QQ'ing of everyone bu the Light Pilots was bad then, but not near as bad as it now coming from the Light pilots. LOL

Not sure the points you're trying to make. What you quoted was a response to another post about C-Bill bonus for lights won't fix the fragility of Lights, but that it may be an incentive for more people to pilot them despite of their fragility.

[Bors Mistral]

I find the low ratio of light weird. I'd say I'm a CTF pilot, but ever since the Locust, and now the Firestarter, I'm spending a lot of time playing lights. And I'm loving it.

What I don't like is that 80% of the time I seem to get dragged into an assault game mode, even if I removed assault from my preferences.

[Be Rough With Me Plz]

Mister Blastman, on 24 July 2014 - 03:44 AM, said:

You are wasting my time at this point because you aren't comprehending what I am saying. Have a good day, Sir.

And yet you're the one who can't and still won't answer a direct question.

Almond Brown, on 24 July 2014 - 08:53 AM, said:

Yup, let's kill the use of the Medium Mech once and for all.

This thread is about Lights, not Mediums. I do not pilot Mediums. I can't give an informed opinion on whether the current reward system for effective Medium pilots is satisfactory. A bad pilot is going to be a bad pilot regardless of what Chassis they use. I can only base an opinion either by throwing myself in a Medium for extended periods of time or take the consensus of opinions and extrapolate from that.

Almond Brown, on 24 July 2014 - 08:53 AM, said:

Or do the Mediums then get better than the Heavies, who then get better than the Assaults?

If you earn less C-Bills using Heavy and Assault Mechs over Lights and Mediums (given the current state of the game) then you shouldn't be rewarded for failure. That's what it would be - failure.

Edited by Be Rough With Me Plz, 24 July 2014 - 09:47 AM.

[El Bandito]

Be Rough With Me Plz, on 24 July 2014 - 09:19 AM, said:

How do you think this would increase the Light pilot population?

It will help Lights to deal more damage, compared to all the now strike-less heavier mechs. One gripe about Light pilots is having less impact in the game.

Edited by El Bandito, 24 July 2014 - 10:03 AM.

[Trauglodyte]

Wolfways, on 23 July 2014 - 01:41 PM, said:

I don't understand why people think the maps are "open". Imo the majority of the maps are nothing but cover, which is why LRM's are so bad in MWO.

Look at Crimson Straight. You've got about 2/3rds of a map to use. Go out in the water and you're done. It is the same with Forrest Colony and River City. On Alpine, if you peak out over a ridge or skirt across the open, you're done. On Frozen City, the entire area below the western ridge (out into the "water") and back behind the open drop point is wasted space and part of the eastern edge of the map is eaten up by a cave (which makes no sense). What this does is force all pilots, regardless of mech weight, to make the decision to risk it and go across open ground or stay in small corridors. As a Light pilot, neither are especially good - open means you can get gunned down and closed corridors means a much better piloting skill and the chance of getting crushed amougnst the giants.

Sandpit, on 23 July 2014 - 09:01 PM, said:

I will chime in with something. The last couple of days I've deliberately dropped solo in a light mech. The wait times weren't any faster than dropping in an assault for me and the payout was a LOT less than what I get in mediums, heavies, and assaults, because the rewards for damage and kills is king.

Lights shouldn't have to do 600+ damage to earn as many cbills as an assault. Why would I WANT to take a mech that, on average, is going to make about half what I would make in a heavier mech. This is especially true when you consider that the ONLY thing to do is save money to buy the next mech.

And this is yet another part of the problem. Your wait times are short but you get paid crap cause your life span is so much shorter and you don't carry what is needed to do tons of damage. So, where is the incentive to play when the other options aren't actually in game.

cdlord, on 24 July 2014 - 04:02 AM, said:

PGI Should look into (or if they are, give us a bone) about providing a dynamic bonus of maybe 15% cbills for bringing the mech with the lowest percentage, 10% for the next lowest (or maybe 10% and 5%). Update it every 15m (with a timer so we can see it). For those with all their mechs mastered (hopefully me soon) and are just earning cbills patiently awaiting community warfare, this would incentivize piloting the less used classes to those purposes. Honestly, if I just want to grind some cbills, I'll take my DDC, not my Jenner....

I don't know if a dynamic bonus is needed or what. Personally, I wish the game would track what you damaged so that it would calculate end game rewards based on how much damage you did but, more importantly, the index of your weight vs what you damage. In my job - I do statistical work for one of the country's largest media corps, we do a lot of weight analyses, index work, R squared deep dives, etc to smooth out anomolies in data and to ensure that the data that we're looking is as pure as possible. Sadly, PGI's end game rewards are all flat lines in a vacuum because there is not different between an Atlas doing 500 damage with 2 kills and 8 assists along with 3 spotting assists and a Locust doing the same thing. What is worse, the end game experience is the exact same. Yet, the 20 ton Locust doesn't have near the weapons payloads nor the armor to survive. Speed is a major difference, yes, but you can't outrun a bullet against a great gunner.