32 replies to this topic

[Impyrium]

So let me get this straight... you're not a very good player, and you haven't played or even used the Clan 'Mechs before. Yet you're making the judgement that they're 'OP'.

Something isn't lining up here. And I'm pretty sure it's your understanding of the phrase 'over powered'.

[Naelbis]

Flash Frame, on 20 July 2014 - 04:35 PM, said:

Hey OP, I think I found your main problems.
1: You ignore the inner sphere's greatest asset, pin point, front load damage.
2: You pilot big,slow mechs.
3:you don't attempt to rectify parts 1 and 2 to fix your complaint about clan mechs.

Adjust steps 1 and 2, and try again.

You just proved that the game balance is inherently broken. If only certain mechs with certain weapons are capable of performing on an adequate level then there is a fundamental design flaw being exposed. While not every build we can dream up is going to be viable, the baseline should be stock builds. If those are relatively balanced against each other and viable then it becomes easier to find the places where customization is creating imbalance and adjust accordingly.

[Cow And Chicken]

Herodes, on 20 July 2014 - 04:19 PM, said:

I can't forgive you, sorry. I have read the threads. They didn't help.
I don't want to talk about the question if Clans are OP or not on an absolute level, I want to see if there are more "lesser players" experiencing the same problem I do and not finding a solution.

I fully understand that this is my fault for not being a good player, but that doesn*t advance matters either, does it?

Heya Herodes.

I wrote the same thing the other day here on the forums. My post was abit more aggressive and I got alot worse responses.

I am obviously one of the LESSER players here like you. After my post which was moved to the garbage bin I logged off and started looking at other online fps games interesting to me.

This game is good. The customization of the mechs are what I like in this game but the lack of balance, maps, gameplay along with the arrogant personal responses from the community I find my ELO for playing lacking!

I am stupid like the guys here say in one way. I spent over 300$ on this game these 3-4 months I have been playing so I can't just, uninstall. I will log on occationally I think and do a match or so.

Posting here on these forums is a total waste of time. You / we, will only wear ourselfs down getting those so called
"Learn to Drive" reaplys from these so called "Super Humans" that play this game.

Your not the only one out there as I sayd, there are more of us (Lesser beings out there) but I fear some of us have
already started running away from this community / game.

Regards,
Cow And Chicken

Edited by Cow And Chicken, 20 July 2014 - 05:08 PM.

[Thunderfrog]

#2 on that list actually has nothing to do with whether or not clans are OP.

Reading comprehension indeed.

[occusoj]

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I fully understand that this is my fault for not being a good player, but that doesn*t advance matters either, does it?

It is, you dont matter. You dont put lots of effort in it, you arent dedicated to it. You dont try to adapt. No game has perfect balance, exploit the imbalances.

I know that attitude (minus the pay part), had it for something like 10+ years playing competitively in fortress games. Bigger parts of the community shared that elitism and hatred against noobs and casuals.
Look at fortress games now, they are dead. The whole genre. No TF2 is not a fortress game, despite the name.

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The solutions for the pros are of no interest for I am not capable of playing like a pro nor do I want to.

Then you will continue to fail. While it doesnt have to be full "pro" play, putting a lot more thought into positioning and fighting technique is mandatory. Especially when the huge walls of DMG your enemy puts out are mostly of DoT nature or your build cant face them alone. I know its hard in solo, but at least try to work as group.

Against the typical casual in solo, clan stuff wrecks even more havoc than most strong IS builds and requiress somewhat less skill to do so. This is just for the underhive level (where I too reside), mind you.
Clan mechs can make good use of most advantages there without fearing exploitation of weaknesses. The DW obliterates most people by sheer ammounts of dakka. Most dont use cover, focus firing doesnt really happen and firing lines break down to a single locust. People go over ridges one by one, of course that killing machine will pick em off. Dont do that.
The best you can hope for is that someone locks that DW and your friendly lurm boats spam him to death. Or he derps up completely which is a bit rarer with clan stuff than with IS IMHO.

Aside from the OPs issue, has anyone considered what clans did to NPE?
Imagin someone playing 25 matches in trial mechs and MM puts him up against somewhat potent clan builds with a good chance of beeing driven by a pilot with much more hours on the clock. Even faster obliteration that with most IS builds.
You think he enjoys that? Could he potentially be led to the thought that those things are OP? (Well, compared to most trials they actually are).
Now he reads the forums, full of hate and insult. Great at solving MWOs prime problem, too many players.

Games with steep learning curves live from a NPE that isnt a total roflstomp, good tutorials that extend beyond "how to move" and a welcoming, patient community. Seriously, what part of that do you see at MWO?
Wouldnt be the first game thats killed by bad introduction combined with a loud elitist crowd. But hey, youre doing yourself in more than the noobs you yell at. Its usually noticed when its already too late.

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Solutions for those experiencing the Clans as OP.

Dont get shot by them.
Seriously, stay in cover. Hit and run. If its faster and runs after you, seperate it from the group and remove its legs.
Dont try to laser-snipe it at huge ranges.

DW and TW are somewhat problematic because of their insane firepower or a bit less dakka but with high mobility in case of the TW. Just dont face it off. And if it happens to be a DW with 2xerppc 2x gauss DONT take a peek over the ridge to see if hes still there. Chances are he is.

Clans do have some advantages that make them (especially TW/DW/SCR) a bit more powerful in the low ELO level. IMHO not game breakingly bad but it still needs somewhat more careful playing against them to specifically exploit their weaknesses.

Edited by occusoj, 20 July 2014 - 05:22 PM.

[Sandpit]

P.S.

This could have been posted in any of the other dozen or so threads regarding clans being "op"

[Blue Shadow]

Herodes, on 20 July 2014 - 03:08 PM, said:

I think it is the combination of me using mainly lasers and preferring close to medium range combat in slow Mechs that makes me more vulnerable to the new Clantech while I don't hit the enemy any harder myself.
I fully understand that most of this should be related to the fact that I am not one of the best players around. It is still a problem for me though as suddenyl being outclassed in any match isn't that funny for anyone.

New threat on the battlefield will demand new tactics, so to stay as true with your play style as possiable try fitting an AC/20 or AC/10 plus as many MLs as you can with still keeping your heat efficiancy 1.3 - 1.4. Or use MPL and LPL for their shorter duration and extra damage if you wont an all laser build. Your in a slow mech with short-mid range wepons, so keep in cover till the battle turns into a brawl and torso twist after shooting (especialy vs Clans).

I agree with the other point you made it should be IS vs Clan (10 vs 12), PGI missed a golden opotunity :-(

[Red1769]

I saw that thread too. And this little snippet was what got it thrown into the garbage.

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If your really going to answer this post with bullshit about clan mechs not being op then
please dont bother because you know your wrong.

When you start discounting other's opinion like that, what did you expect would happen? At that point, you're not looking for a discussion/debate.

To the OP. As much as I agree with Sandpit and others that this could have been in the other threads, but for the sake of being slightly helpful, the biggest thing is know your enemy. See an enemy dire wolf? Call it out in team chat. Most times you don't have to do that from what I've observed, and hopefully two to three teammates will join you in taking it out, from whereever you are in elo anyway I would hope that would happen. When piloting one, I've found that I am public enemy number one, despite a T-wolf not far from me. Try to flank it if all possible, especially if it doesn't have support and take it out quick. There is a reason it is called the Dire Whale. Taking out a side torso to half its weaponry is very effective, you can often pick it off after dealing with a more heavily damaged foe nearby or something, just don't leave it alone for too long after that. Most importantly, torso twist. I don't have a steady hand. If I did, my KDR in them would be higher than what it is because of how many times people have stared me down. When I do have a steady hand, I wreck face when people stare me down and try to take me on one on one with roughly 400 to 500 meters between us. Don't give me that opportunity to focus my damage to your ct (that could be said of most of the clan mechs).

That is just one. T-wolves are more difficult because of their mix of firepower, speed, and armor. I wish I could comment, but I need to pilot them more often before I could say much...same with some of the other mechs. I don't have a Thor or Nova, so I don't think I could say much about them.

Take advantage of your, I would hope, greater heat efficiency (lack of tonnage or space seems to hamper the two assault mechs most, from my personal experience) and shorter beam durations. Blue Shadow above gave a pretty good suggestion. What specific mech do you pilot though? We could potentially give you some more pointers if we knew that.

[Cow And Chicken]

Red1769, on 20 July 2014 - 06:13 PM, said:

I saw that thread too. And this little snippet was what got it thrown into the garbage.

When you start discounting other's opinion like that, what did you expect would happen? At that point, you're not looking for a discussion/debate.

So after reading this whole topic I see the DEBATE on how LESSER and BAD player the poster of the topic is?

The answer in all the threads is about the clans being op is.
1: Learn to drive, you suck etc....
2: Stuff your mech is bigger engine so you can run away faster? You dont need weapons anyways!
3: Stay hidden so they cant find you he he.

And you talk about constructive arguement?

We have all tried my 1-3's but you have to actually get scores, kills, damage to get cbills.

The advantage the clan mechs have is huge.

[Aresye]

Granted, there are a couple Clan builds that are more powerful than they should be given the current game mechanics, but the majority of Clan mechs are fine, and (believe it or not) a couple could actually use a buff.

The reason we say L2P is because that's exactly what it is. Sure, Clan mechs are tough, but barring a high Elo team running meta builds, the majority of Clan mechs are not an issue for any player who knows what they're doing.

I'll have losing streaks just like everybody else. The frustrating kind when you just want to give up on the game entirely, but those losing streaks are regardless if I'm playing Clan or IS mechs. The vast majority of the time I can be just as effective in an IS build as a Clan build. My damage will be lower, but kills, wins, and losses stay pretty consistent.

[Red1769]

If there is an advantage, it's much smaller than what you think. As I've said in another thread, there are a couple of outliers, several maybes, and a bunch of meh.

I do agree with you in that the posters here could have been a heck of a lot more helpful considering the OP's own admittance of certain factors and the tone in which he/she might have posted with it (or at least the tone that I read it with, an honest seeking for help). However, it gets awfully tiring seeing so many different threads about the same topic. I think some of that irritation is quite evident here. What I definitely don't agree with you is those three "points". While some of those were maybe mentioned, you pretty much ignored the same advice I pretty much just said, at least in regards to facing a Dire Wolf, though some of that can be said of the other clan mechs. The disadvantages have been stated to death with most of the clan weapons.

The outliers, to me anyway, are the Clan Gauss Rifle, ER PPC only marginally, and the LBX 10 (an already terrible weapon). But that's only at face value, too, someone did some math with the lasers, so they can better answer that. Chassis wise, maybe only the T-wolf could use some adjustments, but again, I would rather see for myself before making a real call.

Sometimes, like what Aresye just said, it is just that, a L2P issue. However, it could have been delivered a heck of a lot more politely, with some general advice when facing a clan mech. That last part is best, in my opinion. Not just say L2P, but also provide some tips.

Occusoj made a very good comment. Perfect balance will NEVER happen, especially in a game as complicated as MWO. Even more so as they start adding the Inner Sphere versions of clan tech and other weapons and certain mechs into the game (King Crab? Devastator?).

[Lyoto Machida]

lartfor, on 20 July 2014 - 04:24 PM, said:

So much minimodding going on here it's almost disgusting...

Fine...let's just flood the forum with more of the same that's been posted in other threads already.

[Sandpit]

Cow And Chicken, on 20 July 2014 - 06:22 PM, said:

So after reading this whole topic I see the DEBATE on how LESSER and BAD player the poster of the topic is?

The answer in all the threads is about the clans being op is.
1: Learn to drive, you suck etc....
2: Stuff your mech is bigger engine so you can run away faster? You dont need weapons anyways!
3: Stay hidden so they cant find you he he.

And you talk about constructive arguement?

We have all tried my 1-3's but you have to actually get scores, kills, damage to get cbills.

The advantage the clan mechs have is huge.

sure there's a few saying that.

I'm not and I'm telling you I don't think they're "op"
I don't own clan mechs
I pilot IS mechs
I solo
I group

So that doesn't dismiss my opinion on it with what you're sayin