65 replies to this topic

[Necromonger Commander]

Jump Jets are so weak that there is no point using them. 2 jj will barely let my Victor get out of the water next to the ship on Crimson Straight (even 4 JJ cannot get me out of the water on the city side cliff). The 4 tons extra engine size more than make up for the 5-6 meter jump I can manage with these "Jump Jets".

[Lefty Lucy]

a single JJ means you can still pop tart, exploit-hop up hills, and prevent fall damage. More than one is pointless.

[Yokaiko]

Lefty Lucy, on 20 July 2014 - 07:02 PM, said:

a single JJ means you can still pop tart, exploit-hop up hills, and prevent fall damage. More than one is pointless.

Yup. The scaling.....wait what scaling.

[Signal27]

Necromonger Commander, on 20 July 2014 - 06:45 PM, said:

2 jj will barely let my Victor get out of the water next to the ship on Crimson Straight

It's an 80 ton mech. The dev's goal was to give a good smack to jump-jet capable assaults. Lighter mechs weren't hit as hard - I can still get my lights, mediums, and heavies up on short ledges (like in River City) with only 1 jump jet.

[MischiefSC]

Nah, 1 is all that's worth using now. You can't get enough lift on a Griffin with 5 at any speed to get anywhere or do anything that you couldn't get to faster and better on foot. I can instead take 2 more DHS and run cooler and do anything I did before more efficiently - or bump up a couple of SRM4s to SRM6s, or add more ammo, maybe even bump an engine tier.

I get the intent - I do. The result however is that instead of making more JJs more relevant they've become less. You take 1 to poptart a bit and help up hills. Taking more than 1 is irrelevant.

[Col Jaime Wolf]

pgi hit like 2 out of 3 target with the JJ changes.

hit 1 JJ tend to make you jet farther... kinda depends... but kinda mostly.

hit 2 JJ heat does something.... but it heats you up so its a hit cuz at least it does what is stated.

miss 1 JJ dont let you "get" into places. worse yet JJ make you even slower then they used to.

assault JJ got hit so hard that only 1 victor even resembles what JJ were like before. all highlanders (the definitive DFA mech) can barely (and i do mean barely) lift off the ground even with max JJ (10 tons and 5 JJ).

heavies lumber about but the truth is

Lefty Lucy, on 20 July 2014 - 07:02 PM, said:

a single JJ means you can still pop tart, exploit-hop up hills, and prevent fall damage. More than one is pointless.

the changes were meant to force you to use max JJ. what happened was JJ got hit so hard that now only 1 JJ is usefull. and only for exploiting game mechanics.

Edited by Mellifluer, 20 July 2014 - 07:12 PM.

[Roland]

What they need to do is make it so that JJ's actually increase thrust exponentially, the more you have.
So that if you invest in many JJ's, you actually get a massive boost.

As it stands, you get the most bang for your buck from one JJ, and taking more is kind of a waste since it doesn't increase your jumping ability much.

They tried to nerf jumpsniping, but the fix they put in was backwards.

[Sephlock]

Mellifluer, on 20 July 2014 - 07:11 PM, said:

pgi hit like 2 out of 3 target with the JJ changes.

hit 1 JJ tend to make you jet farther... kinda depends... but kinda mostly.

hit 2 JJ heat does something.... but it heats you up so its a hit cuz at least it does what is stated.

miss 1 JJ dont let you "get" into places. worse yet JJ make you even slower then they used to.

assault JJ got hit so hard that only 1 victor even resembles what JJ were like before. all highlanders (the definitive DFA mech) can barely (and i do mean barely) lift off the ground even with max JJ (10 tons and 5 JJ).

heavies lumber about but the truth is



the changes were meant to force you to use max JJ. what happened was JJ got hit so hard that now only 1 JJ is usefull. and only for exploiting game mechanics.

Result: Another nerf that misses the point entirely.

Jump Jets are supposed to launch my mech into advantageous positions not make me feel like I'm a little girl playing hopscotch... while I have a broken leg.

And they aren't supposed to turn me into a pogo FLD cannon either.

[Yokaiko]

Mellifluer, on 20 July 2014 - 07:11 PM, said:

the changes were meant to force you to use max JJ. what happened was JJ got hit so hard that now only 1 JJ is usefull. and only for exploiting game mechanics.

yeah, max JJs are trash as well. Took me three minutes on the training grounds to figure that out.

[RangerGee412]

Should just make the jump jets fixed like the clan mechs. Then adjust from there.

My lights and mediums still have good thrust. Haven't tried a heavy or assault yet but I will check it out tomorrow.

[WarZ]

Roland, on 20 July 2014 - 07:14 PM, said:

What they need to do is make it so that JJ's actually increase thrust exponentially, the more you have.
So that if you invest in many JJ's, you actually get a massive boost.

As it stands, you get the most bang for your buck from one JJ, and taking more is kind of a waste since it doesn't increase your jumping ability much.

They tried to nerf jumpsniping, but the fix they put in was backwards.

So basically its like engine heat sinks ? Having one is like like having double heat sinks. The 10 in the engine give 2.0 heat dissipation. Then additional DHS outside the engine ones give 1.4 heat dissipation. Are we saying the first jump jet gives more ability. Then the ones after the first give reduced ability ?

If so basically they didnt nerf having 1 jump jet enough. One jump jet is giving more lift ability than additional increments of jump jets ? Basically they'd need to tone down the single jump jet capacity so it is in line to what they give with the additional jump jets. Then having more than 1 JJ gives distinct increases.

[Sandpit]

Lefty Lucy, on 20 July 2014 - 07:02 PM, said:

a single JJ means you can still pop tart, exploit-hop up hills, and prevent fall damage. More than one is pointless.

I don't see how, my highlander can't clear hills much less buildings with 2JJs

Sephlock, on 20 July 2014 - 07:15 PM, said:

Result: Another nerf that misses the point entirely.

Jump Jets are supposed to launch my mech into advantageous positions not make me feel like I'm a little girl playing hopscotch... while I have a broken leg.

And they aren't supposed to turn me into a pogo FLD cannon either.

they also aren't supposed to break your legs

all of these nerfs, adjustments, etc. just because of poptarts. Problem is they're hurting every other aspect of the game

[Lefty Lucy]

Sandpit, on 20 July 2014 - 08:07 PM, said:

I don't see how, my highlander can't clear hills much less buildings with 2JJs


they also aren't supposed to break your legs

all of these nerfs, adjustments, etc. just because of poptarts. Problem is they're hurting every other aspect of the game

If you tap your JJ while you move up hills a single JJ will get you as high as you need. It's an exploit for sure, but if they're going to continue with idiotic JJ "balance" changes then you've gotta do what you can.

[Jakob Knight]

WarZ, on 20 July 2014 - 08:02 PM, said:

So basically its like engine heat sinks ? Having one is like like having double heat sinks. The 10 in the engine give 2.0 heat dissipation. Then additional DHS outside the engine ones give 1.4 heat dissipation. Are we saying the first jump jet gives more ability. Then the ones after the first give reduced ability ?

If so basically they didnt nerf having 1 jump jet enough. One jump jet is giving more lift ability than additional increments of jump jets ? Basically they'd need to tone down the single jump jet capacity so it is in line to what they give with the additional jump jets. Then having more than 1 JJ gives distinct increases.

No, what they did was reduce the individual ability of each jump jet to almost nothing. To this, they added the initial boost a jumping mech gets on launch to get it started, which is now greater than the effect of a jump jet. The result is that sum result of having more than one jump jet isn't that different from having one jump jet because it isn't the jump jets that are the main source of determining mech jumping ability. One jump jet is much like having four, because each jump jet is contributing so little now that only the initial jump boost from initial launch is actually doing anything.

They don't need to nerf the single jump jet, but instead they need to boost the effect having multiple jump jets has on a mech.

To illustrate, a Timberwolf with 4 Jump Jets is supposed to be able to jump over an obstacle twice it's own height. Right now, that mech can fire all 4 jump jets and barely skim along the ground, getting no real height even though it has a full -4- jump jets installed. That same mech with a single jump jet will perform almost identically, just for not as long. There is no real lift coming from the jump jets, in other words.

As a side note, the comments from the devs that a mech that uses its jump jets to land will not take damage seems to be another faulty claim. Every time I have landed after using my jump jets less than a second prior, I have taken leg damage. This may be tied into the thrust problem as not having enough thrust would mean that firing all four jump jets on that Timberwolf won't matter, as they collectively won't put out enough thrust to keep you from falling damage (i.e. the reduction in fall speed is negligible due to the lack of counter-force breaking thrust).

So, no. It isn't that they didn't nerf having a single jump jet enough, but that they reduced the benefit of having additional jump jets past the first to the point that doing so is no longer of any use. Either way, the mech performs more-or-less the same, and that is directly counter to the stated goal of encouraging people to avoid using the bare minimum number of jump jets. Nerfing the single jump jet use would do nothing to solve this problem, and indeed would further cripple mechs with multiple jump jets even more.

[Mystere]

Ok, I don't know what the problem is because I haven't used my Heavy Metal for a while and thus can't remember the original heights. But, with 4 JJs, I can do the following in River City:

• jump from the water in D3 onto the platform, with some fuel to spare
  
• jump from the platform to the left building, with just a tiny bit of fuel left
  
• jump from the left building to the raised platform on the right building, hitting the base of tower itself when using up all fuel

How should the HM with 4 JJs have performed previously?

Edited by Mystere, 20 July 2014 - 10:48 PM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Mystere, on 20 July 2014 - 08:51 PM, said:

Ok, I don't know what the problem is because I haven't used my Heavy Metal for a while and thus can't remember the original heights. But, with 4 JJs, I can do the following:

• jump from the water in D3 onto the platform, with some fuel to spare
  
• jump from the platform to the left building, with just a tiny bit of fuel left
  
• jump from the left building to the raised platform on the right building, hitting the base of tower itself when using up all fuel

How should the HM with 4 JJs have performed previously?

Much higher then that. The HM with 5 jump jets could jump from the base floor to the top of the wall on HPG. Or from under the platform in Crimson to on top of the platform. You are investing 10 tons of JJs into a mech, it makes sense to me that it should take off slowly because of its mass, but then it should have a significantly longer burn time such that it gets some serious altitude, in my opinion more than most other mechs, not just a dismal 33m. It used to be like 62m.

[XxXAbsolutZeroXxX]

Are the changes temporary?

In a way I hope PGI did ruin jump jets if it might lead them to question where they take their input & feedback from.

This forum is a terrible source of feedback. Most forum posters are clueless n00bs that haven't played the game in 6+ months who don't know what they're talking about.

.

[Deathlike]

I Zeratul I, on 20 July 2014 - 10:09 PM, said:

Are the changes temporary?

You are asking a rhetorical question about the changes that Paul made.

You should know the answer to that.

[Karamarka]

Mellifluer, on 20 July 2014 - 07:11 PM, said:

the changes were meant to force you to use max JJ. what happened was JJ got hit so hard that now only 1 JJ is usefull. and only for exploiting game mechanics.

Yup, no way im spending 5 JJ worth of space just to get 1 window higher, rather just use 1 and get all the other benefits... NICE CHANGE PGI

[XxXAbsolutZeroXxX]

Deathlike, on 20 July 2014 - 10:18 PM, said:

You are asking a rhetorical question about the changes that Paul made.

You should know the answer to that.

Why pay attention?

I expected jump jets to be ruined as soon as I saw PGI taking poptart whiners seriously.

Whiners & complainers usually manage to ruin any game where people listen to them.

Don't see a reason this would be any different.

Like they say, history repeats itself.

.