45 replies to this topic

[Hans Von Lohman]

I still think that the ECM debate isn't over. We see a lot of players who will prefer one variant of a light mech to another simply based on if it can have the Guardian ECM or not, like the Ravel 3L being the best Raven.

If that is the case, then I think the Guardian ECM must still be too good. In reality it should be an option, but not an automatic go-to bit of gear that you MUST have installed or you are just being stupid.

So far the ECM is "ballanced" by being only only a handful of mechs, and sufficient counters so it doesn't prevent lock ons.

To me this is what an ECM should do.

1. It adds a delay of a few seconds when you come into view before you get a red triangle above your head and enemies can lock onto you.
2. It should prevent the enemy from ever getting your armor/weapon information readout.
3. There should be two kinds of ECM. The area effect "Guardian ECM" which we already have, and another, lighter "ECM" which only protects yourself, but does not have an umbrella, area effect that cloaks your team mates.
4. All lights should be able to equip the ECM or the Guardian ECM, but not both. I.E. the Raven 3L can equip only the Guardian ECM.
5. The Atlas D-DC was given the Guardian ECM as a replacment for the non-functional Command Console. That mech shouldn't be an ECM carrier.

[Khobai]

obviously its too good if it needs six different ways to counter it.

[Black Ivan]

It's seriousy a dead horse. PGI will never revert back from their Angel ECM approach, it's much too late for that.

[Khobai]

The Angel ECM approach was fine. But why does it give aoe super stealth? If one facet of ECM should be removed its the aoe stealth. It should only give stealth to the mech its equipped on.

[SirLankyIII]

It's still too much of a game changer, and is probably the major reason LRMs have been so hard to balance since it's essentially a hard counter. In my opinion it needs the following changes

1. Get rid of the target acquisition lockdown outside of 200-250m
2. Give all friendly mechs within 180m the following protection from enemies
- 25% reduced target acquisition range (50% for the wearer)
- 25% reduced target info gathering speed (50% for the wearer)
- 25% faster target decay (50% for the wearer)
3. Let it retain the reduced lock speed
4. Allow enemies to target friendlies with 180m but keep the shared sensor data blackout
5. Remove the ssrm jammimg with 180m
6. Remove the Bap jamming function within 150m
7. Narc no longer transmits under ECM at all
8. Tag functions the same as it does now
9. PPCs no longer jam ecm

With those changes you can then reduce the flight speed of LRMs to a more reasonable speed and have them be more reliant on spotters or line of sight as is intended. That leaves firing at targets out of line of sight to be more like it was prior to the buff, pointless unless you're within 400m.

The real issue is the blanket protection ecm provides, without it it's too weak with the current counters and LRMs speed, but with it it's too omnipotent, especially when it's stacked.

[Heeden]

I don't mind the ECM providing protection against lock-on missiles and denying targeting info, but I don't think it should take away the red triangles which seems to be disproportionately powerful against PuGs whilst being mostly nullified by voice-comms.

Plus, I may be wrong but I thought the 'mechs targeting systems used passive means such as visual recognition and heat detection for determining what an enemy mech is (hence the Mad/Cat confusion with the Timberwolf).

[Vassago Rain]

It's been two years.
Get over it already.

[Livewyr]

Sadly, Vassago is right..

In his infinite wisdom, Paul has declared ECM to be where they want it. (Namely ruling out LRMs in anything remotely close to competitive match, or in CW: Any unit that is not an "Africa Clan.")

He is not likely to change his "position at the time."

Edited by Livewyr, 23 July 2014 - 05:41 AM.

[Ushka]

Hans Von Lohman, on 23 July 2014 - 02:23 AM, said:

I still think that the ECM debate isn't over. We see a lot of players who will prefer one variant of a light mech to another simply based on if it can have the Guardian ECM or not, like the Ravel 3L being the best Raven.

Let the bebate of LRM's users also be open then, like they cant get target lock if the target isnt in line of sight..
Lately you can barely move or get LRM to death in lot of games, by ppl staying behind a rock not moveing and just shoot on any target lock they can have.
Things are fine just like it is. if you think LRMs are not viable then dont use them

[Sephlock]

Ushka, on 23 July 2014 - 05:42 AM, said:

Let the bebate of LRM's users also be open then, like they cant get target lock if the target isnt in line of sight..
Lately you can barely move or get LRM to death in lot of games, by ppl staying behind a rock not moveing and just shoot on any target lock they can have.
Things are fine just like it is. if you think LRMs are not viable then dont use them

*sigh*

[Malleus011]

ECM is obviously borked, otherwise they'd have released a lot more chassis capable of carrying it. They know there's a problem, but it's either somebody's pet that can't be touched, or they don't have the resources to actually fix it correctly.

It's the single largest destroyer of fun in MWO games, and should be fixed ... but it won't be.

[Mystere]

SirLankyIII, on 23 July 2014 - 05:19 AM, said:

It's still too much of a game changer ...

I love game changers. They're disruptive enough to make things interesting and fun, at least for me anyway.

Malleus011, on 23 July 2014 - 06:54 AM, said:

It's the single largest destroyer of fun in MWO games, and should be fixed ...

I wholeheartedly disagree. See above.

[Ursh]

No more AOE stealth. It's ridiculous that 1.5 tons of equipment passively denies so much information about so many mechs.

[AlmightyAeng]

[OznerpaG]

ECM is fine - if ECM bothers you then TAG cuts through it like a knife

[mogs01gt]

Vassago Rain, on 23 July 2014 - 05:36 AM, said:

It's been two years.
Get over it already.

really?

So in our General Discussion forum we cant discuss equipment? Lets never discuss anything regarding a game we play, just get over it......

JagdFlanker, on 23 July 2014 - 07:37 AM, said:

ECM is fine - if ECM bothers you then TAG cuts through it like a knife

no it doesnt.

Tag is only useful when running missiles, missiles are under powered as it is anyway. Plus ECM can cause multiple mechs to go undetected on radar for flanking. What the hell is TAG going to do when a lance shows up at your flank?

Edited by mogs01gt, 23 July 2014 - 07:45 AM.

[Cyborne Elemental]

We need two seperate ECM devices.

1. Guardian ECM 1.5 tons
No shield bubble effect, provides radar stealth until within 300 meters and missle lock speed reduction for Equipped mech only.

2. Angel ECM 3 tons
Only available for Atlas-D-DC or very few specially selected Mechs. Provides ECM coverage for teamates within range, reduces missle lock speed and radar stealth until within 250 meters. (basically what we have now for ECM)

With both ECM equipment, enemy mechs should not have any indication that they're being spotted or jammed from within targeting range without a BAP equipped themselves.

Edited by Mister D, 23 July 2014 - 07:44 AM.

[DocBach]

ECM is still terribly implemented two years after the fact.

They could make all of the tertiary electronic warfare equipment so much more interesting and involved.

[Clit Beastwood]

DocBach, on 23 July 2014 - 07:46 AM, said:

ECM is still terribly implemented two years after the fact.

They could make all of the tertiary electronic warfare equipment so much more interesting and involved.

Yeah, but there are still a lot of *basic* mechanics that aren't fully implemented. Overhauling ECM with a sesquipedalian mess of new mechanics is pretty low-priority when measured against everything else that has to be done. The only change I think ECM needs is via matchmaker - try to keep a semi-even number of ECM mechs on each team. While pugging for a few hours yesterday, it was almost a certain thing that if I dropped on a team with no ECM, the enemy team had several (2-3) + missile boats. It's not the end of the world, but you all know what happens when pugs start getting lurmed.. everyone falls apart.

[TercieI]

Fierostetz, on 23 July 2014 - 08:27 AM, said:

Yeah, but there are still a lot of *basic* mechanics that aren't fully implemented. Overhauling ECM with a sesquipedalian mess of new mechanics is pretty low-priority when measured against everything else that has to be done. The only change I think ECM needs is via matchmaker - try to keep a semi-even number of ECM mechs on each team. While pugging for a few hours yesterday, it was almost a certain thing that if I dropped on a team with no ECM, the enemy team had several (2-3) + missile boats. It's not the end of the world, but you all know what happens when pugs start getting lurmed.. everyone falls apart.

As much as I think one more variable in the matchmaker is likely to lead to even sillier problems, I dropped into a match the other day (group queue) where we had a 7-0 ECM mech advantage. I don't need to tell you the final score. Given that it was 3/2/2 among three groups, it seems likely that was avoidable. OTOH, if they admit something equipable by exactly six mechs is significant enough that it has to be accounted for in the MM, that's pretty much an admission it should be nerfed....