57 replies to this topic

[Davers]

Maybe they are saving ECM for the 55 ton Hoplite?

[Odins Fist]

This didn't turn into an "ECM isn't fair" thread did it..??

Had no issues the day it came out in MWO, and still don't.

Question: You know what you do when you DON'T see a Red Triangle above an enemy mech?
-
ANSWER: Just what you would do to any enemy mech, you "SHOOT" it.

Edited by Odins Fist, 23 July 2014 - 10:06 AM.

[mogs01gt]

Odins Fist, on 23 July 2014 - 10:05 AM, said:

This didn't turn into an "ECM isn't fair" thread did it..??
Had no issues the day it came out in MWO, and still don't.
Question: You know what you do when you DON'T see a Red Triangle above an enemy mech?
ANSWER: Just what you would do to any enemy mech, you "SHOOT" it.

Not every mech is designed to use "just shoot it" weapons.....

[EyeOne]

mogs01gt, on 23 July 2014 - 10:45 AM, said:

Not every mech is designed to use "just shoot it" weapons.....

But every mech is able to use "just shoot it" weapons.

I'm not sure I'd call ECM OP. I certainly wouldn't call it OP just because PGI is selective about what mechs can use it. Maybe it's just because I remember a day when it was actually OP. Like, when it had no counters but itself, Ravens were invincible and ECM blocked sensor contact with friendlies also.

But at this point with NARC, UAV and TAG all burning through ECM and PPCs disrupting it there are plenty of ways to get around it. Yesterday I was in a LRM only mech (I wanted to try the new min range CLRM thing) and a ECM Spider came along. It hindered my performance but I tried to reposition to attack other mechs and lay low until he died. Hell, I even blind fired and hit some Dire Wolves.

I'm not saying that ECM on the battlefield isn't a gamechanger. I just wouldn't cry "OP!". It is what it is. Though, I do wish they would reduce the umbrella effect by half

Edited by EyeOne, 23 July 2014 - 11:04 AM.

[mogs01gt]

EyeOne, on 23 July 2014 - 11:03 AM, said:

But every mech is able to use "just shoot it" weapons.

That is irrilevant because functionally they do it poorly when their mech is designed in a different direction.

There are severe balancing issues in this game. Having an item that negates a certain weapon's ability to perform at their most optimum performance is game breaking. However, it wouldnt be game breaking if every weapon type had an equal item that limited their performance.

Why do you think missiles are the worst performing weapon in the game.

[EyeOne]

mogs01gt, on 23 July 2014 - 11:36 AM, said:

Why do you think missiles are the worst performing weapon in the game.

That's interesting because I don't think they are the worst performing weapons in the game. Unless I'm forgetting about all those Flamer boats, LBX boats and Pulse Laser boats.

Weird how LRMs see a enormous amounts of use despite being so terrible in your mind.

+LRMS can hit you at 1000m. They are buffed by multiple modules, TAG, NARC and UAVs. They can hit you without line of sight by the launcher. And they can be used in massive numbers.

- LRMs can't hit within 180 (IS). They can be reduced by AMS. They can be soft countered by one module. And they can be countered by ECM (ECM itself is countered by other ECM, TAG, NARC and UAVs)

Maybe if every mech could take ECM in it's current form it would kill LRMs. So PGI could either nerf ECM and allow it on everything, or keep it like it is and limit it to a handful of variants. In the end, I'm not sure it matters.

[Odins Fist]

mogs01gt, on 23 July 2014 - 10:45 AM, said:

Not every mech is designed to use "just shoot it" weapons.....

Yes you are right, BUT we have all seen what happens to Pure/Absolute "Missile Boats" that run no other type of weapons for defense.

They are far too specialized, and it has always been a distinct pleasure to find a missile boat and pick it apart bit by bit as it desperately attempts to survive.
I remember runnng the ol' Centurian into the back-field to hunt Catapult missile boats..
Did I mention I didn't use ECM then?

I always imagined the pilots sounded like Tweak from South Park, sitting in their cockpits losing it, and freaking out.

"IF" you run only weapons that require a lock to use, then you're "Doing it Wrong"
Have a swell day

Edited by Odins Fist, 23 July 2014 - 12:24 PM.

[mogs01gt]

EyeOne, on 23 July 2014 - 12:23 PM, said:

That's interesting because I don't think they are the worst performing weapons in the game. Unless I'm forgetting about all those Flamer boats, LBX boats and Pulse Laser boats.
Weird how LRMs see a enormous amounts of use despite being so terrible in your mind.
+LRMS can hit you at 1000m. They are buffed by multiple modules, TAG, NARC and UAVs. They can hit you without line of sight by the launcher. And they can be used in massive numbers.
- LRMs can't hit within 180 (IS). They can be reduced by AMS. They can be soft countered by one module. And they can be countered by ECM (ECM itself is countered by other ECM, TAG, NARC and UAVs)
Maybe if every mech could take ECM in it's current form it would kill LRMs. So PGI could either nerf ECM and allow it on everything, or keep it like it is and limit it to a handful of variants. In the end, I'm not sure it matters.

god damn it! dont turn this already derail thread into a nerf missles thread!!!!!

and yes, flamers, LBX and pulse lasers will perform better than LRM/missiles. Performing better as when you hit the mouse button, they actually hit the target. There isnt XXXXX counter for them, well other than PGI..

[Lyoto Machida]

Vassago Rain, on 23 July 2014 - 06:11 AM, said:

ECM is basically a legacy feature.

It must be a Pandora's Box type situation, where they can't get the cat back in the bag.

[Bishop Steiner]

FupDup, on 23 July 2014 - 06:14 AM, said:

Seeing how the Spider/Atlas/Cicada variants with ECM didn't have it in canon, the canon argument kind of doesn't work here.

so fr they have not released a single Royal Variant. They have stuck to canon availability of chassis, they just decided to allow an upgrade to a couple.

[FupDup]

Jack Corban, on 23 July 2014 - 08:30 AM, said:

And this is simply BS. Because you would only be able to lock on to targets previously seen. All you giot before was a radar blip. Don't try to change the facts into your favor. Also If you can see it you can shoot it regardless of radar.

This discussion is over. Your argument is invalid.

I'm not sure the "edginess" of your post quoted above was warranted.

Back to the topic, I'm fairly certain that MW4 did allow you to detect an enemy without visually seeing them, with the range of detecting them depending on radar modes for both mechs, BAP on your mech, and/or ECM on the enemy mech. When you saw a red blip on the radar, you could press E (default key) to target the next available enemy (if applicable).

I also remember that MekTek was trying out a sort of LoS radar similar to MWO in the later stages of their MekPaks, but the "old guard" who wanted to poptart in their Black Knights/Gladiators/Wild Cats all day on NHUA servers didn't like it very much. Most servers turned off the new radar mode experiment. :\

Edited by FupDup, 23 July 2014 - 04:50 PM.

[FupDup]

Alistair Winter, on 23 July 2014 - 07:48 AM, said:

Alright, I guess that would really turn things rather bleak for stealthy light mech pilots. But I think it could be implemented if the values were applied correctly. For example, it makes no sense that a Locust should be as easy to detect as a Dire Wolf. If you could only detect and get a lock on an assault mech from 200 meters, then what if the scale was 150, 100 and 50 meters for heavy, medium and light mechs respectively? And with a similar scale for active radar, which allowed light mechs to detect Stalker LRM boats before they were detected themselves... well, it certainly seems like it could be beneficial to the game, if correctly implemented.

Detectability based on mech tonnage (and maybe quirks for certain chassis) would certainly be a great feature to help salvage MWO's Information Warfarce, and provide a subtle little buff for mediums and lights.

Although, I still don't particularly like having radar locks without LoS, excluding special equipment like putting a Narc beacon on somebody.

[mad kat]

I think the choice of the 3M was a good one, i think ECM is over-rated (either that or i can't use it properly) but a meta 3M with 4 x SRM6, 2 X ML and an xl 340 upgrade minus the jets is a serious threat to all but the most stupid and far more effective than ECM would ever be. Its the sheer hard points and XL friendliness that sets this mech apart.

Especially considering you can chase lights, use a shield arm and drop a 61.6 alpha on your foes means even assault mechs have to think twice about engaging you. No ECM can benefit you that much.

[mogs01gt]

mad kat, on 24 July 2014 - 03:54 AM, said:

I think the choice of the 3M was a good one, i think ECM is over-rated (either that or i can't use it properly) but a meta 3M with 4 x SRM6, 2 X ML and an xl 340 upgrade minus the jets is a serious threat to all but the most stupid and far more effective than ECM would ever be. Its the sheer hard points and XL friendliness that sets this mech apart.

Especially considering you can chase lights, use a shield arm and drop a 61.6 alpha on your foes means even assault mechs have to think twice about engaging you. No ECM can benefit you that much.

Chase lights? What lights? There are only 2 or 3 in a game... Plus you are barely hitting lights with those missiles unless they are streaks. That is a waste of ammo. If they didnt want another ECM mech, then at least they could have gave us the 5m with the ballistics hard point! Pin-point damage > *


I find ECM the most useful piece of equipment in PUGs.

Edited by mogs01gt, 24 July 2014 - 04:38 AM.

[EyeOne]

mogs01gt, on 23 July 2014 - 01:05 PM, said:

god damn it! dont turn this already derail thread into a nerf missles thread!!!!!

and yes, flamers, LBX and pulse lasers will perform better than LRM/missiles. Performing better as when you hit the mouse button, they actually hit the target. There isnt XXXXX counter for them, well other than PGI..

I didn't even remotely suggest that LRMs needed a nerf. You did though.

One day I'd like to see you make a good, well thought out post. Just one.

[mogs01gt]

EyeOne, on 24 July 2014 - 09:48 AM, said:

I didn't even remotely suggest that LRMs needed a nerf. You did though.

One day I'd like to see you make a good, well thought out post. Just one.

Good job keeping the trolling alive bro!!

Edited by mogs01gt, 24 July 2014 - 11:49 AM.

[Sephlock]

Malleus011, on 23 July 2014 - 06:42 AM, said:

In canon lore? The Raven 3L should be the only IS 'mech with ECM. Cicada's didn't have it. (Neither did any of the other IS ECM 'mechs we have right now). PGI is basically making up which 'mechs can have ECM.

Along with making up what regular ECM can do.

[EyeOne]

mogs01gt, on 24 July 2014 - 11:33 AM, said:

Good job keeping the trolling a live bro!!