20 replies to this topic

[BlindJustice]

How close is this game in mechanics to say Mechwarrior Mercenaries or any of the PC Games.

I was thinking of using the builds from Smurfy on one of the standalone games to test them out before purchasing and outfitting my first mech to save the c-bills and test my playstyle with the loadouts.

I have all of them from days gone by. I am a newb to MWO but not to the mechwarrior franchise or the battletech universe. Just need a bit of refresher.

BTW.... I love the game.

So far enjoying the medium and lights. Most success running those chassis with the trial mechs.
Most survived and damage dealt on spiders/jenners and Blackjacks.

[Sudden]

I would look at mechwarroir 2 or 3 for that, but I don't think you will get the same builds .

Edited by Sudden, 23 July 2014 - 05:21 AM.

[Mechteric]

Probably more similar to Mechwarrior 3 than 4 (since 4 had a weird mechlab and was much more arcadey than 3).

[Koniving]

BlindJustice, on 23 July 2014 - 05:08 AM, said:

How close is this game in mechanics to say Mechwarrior Mercenaries or any of the PC Games.

I was thinking of using the builds from Smurfy on one of the standalone games to test them out before purchasing and outfitting my first mech to save the c-bills and test my playstyle with the loadouts.

I have all of them from days gone by. I am a newb to MWO but not to the mechwarrior franchise or the battletech universe. Just need a bit of refresher.

BTW.... I love the game.

So far enjoying the medium and lights. Most success running those chassis with the trial mechs.
Most survived and damage dealt on spiders/jenners and Blackjacks.

Extremely different.
If you were to compare it to MW4... Then whatever loadout you have would be the same as having a 250 engine and 10 DHS in MWO with elite skills unlocked. (2.0 cooling, 60 threshold. In MWO it'd be 2.3/sec cooling and 60 threshold). Though weapon heats are not the same; the larger lasers are hotter in MW4.

If MW3 (original), then any build that would work here would be absolute garbage in MW3. 30 threshold, 2/sec cooling for 10 DHS. It'd be shutdown city; good news is it'd train you to deal with ghost heat as ghost heat is trying to simulate a 30 threshold on alpha strikes. Funny, that. Simply fixing the threshold to 30 would do wonders.

If MW3 Pirate's Moon or MW2, your threshold would be 40 with 2/sec cooling for 10 DHS. In MW2 the weapons are much cooler (for that arcadey feel) and on MW3 with or without pirate's moon the larger weapons are hotter while the smaller weapons are colder. A small laser and an AC/2 or AC/5 would generate identical heat (1 heat) while a medium laser would generate 3 heat (in MWO it's 2 heat and 4 heat). The ER Large Laser would generate 12 heat (where in MWO it generates 8.5).

In MW3 and 4, PPCs and ER PPCs are essentially identical heat and damage-wise to MWO.

I should note the best way to simulate MW3 Pirates Moon or MW2's threshold and cooling is to take a build with 10 Single Heatsinks in MWO with NO UNLOCKS and double how fast it cools. As that's 40 threshold, 1/s cooling. So double the speed and 2/s cooling with 40 threshold.

Threshold, short for heat threshold, is defined as the maximum amount of heat you can have generated and undissipated (cooled) at any given time before the reactor shuts down.

30 threshold means 30 points/units of heat will shut you down. (Example: ER Large Laser in MW3 is 12 heat. 3 ER Large Lasers and you shutdown at 36 heat if fired at the same time. If fired one at a time your heat might be lower but if you fired 3 in less than 7 seconds with 10 SHS, you'd still hit 30 heat and shutdown).

For MWO, to find out how much threshold you'd get (as unlike any other Mechwarrior game, MWO has a rising threshold), refer to this heat simulator and note that skill unlocks (as checkboxes) and engine sizes will affect your cooling speed and threshold.

This is the threshold/cooling of a Dire Wolf Prime in its stock configuration with no unlocks.
And this is its performance in a more canonical fighting style [in how the weapons are fired]. (Skip to 6:10 for the beginning of the fight).


And this is the fight from the opposing side. Skip to 3:50.

Edited by Koniving, 23 July 2014 - 06:18 AM.

[BlindJustice]

Thanks. Well I guess I won't be installing any of the former games. I was trying to find a way to tryout a couple of builds for my first mech. I was going to go with the Huntchback 4sp with 5 ML and 2 SRM6's with 16 Heatsinks. I was just wondering its heat effeciency. I just didn't want to buy it and set it up and over heat after 2 sets of shots of the lasers and missiles during a CQB where you are trying to be more aware of your surroundings and miss the ghost heat and shutdown. (Had it happen) Didn't like the results.

BTW: I am taking advice for first mech and have narrowed it down to Huntchback and Jenner. But I can just play as the Trial Jenner if I want something different or until I decide to buy one. I figure, why own something that I can play for free, when I can buy a different type. I may go Raven instead of Jenner if I buy a light. But I only have 10 mil to spend so I can only afford one full setup and minimum backup armaments. I play mostly as a skirmisher that knows how to spot for the LRM Boats.

Edited by BlindJustice, 23 July 2014 - 10:16 AM.

[Koniving]

Of the two, plan on using an XL 280 or higher engine for a Jenner. You could get away with a 180 if you planned on a sniping rig (and it's good practice for Clan lights), but just starting out nothing smaller than a 250.

This is a slow light (after speed tweak). The design was based off of what I used for a Jenner, but enhanced with more lasers instead of twin PPCs. (The video has the order of events jumbled up; you'll see the end before you see the middle. Sorry about that).


For the Hunchback you can easily get away without replacing the engine, but know that with a 200 engine you definitely won't be winning any marathons. This is my most recent Hunchback vid. I'll probably have more in the near future.

Standard 200 engine. 320 armor (just like stock, but rearranged). 2 PPCs right torso with 4 Medium Lasers, tag in the head, and 2 medium lasers on the arms.
It was changed from an XL 275 engine (very expensive), 3 PPCs and several smaller lasers.

Hunchbacks (and slow lights) thrive on tight, compact spaces or in the company of other larger machines. Don't expect to solo anything. You're part of a lance, stick with them.

Edited by Koniving, 23 July 2014 - 10:33 AM.

[BlindJustice]

other than a laser pointer. What is the purpose of the TAG. What else does it do for you?

[Red1769]

BlindJustice, on 23 July 2014 - 10:50 AM, said:

other than a laser pointer. What is the purpose of the TAG. What else does it do for you?

It cuts through ECM so long as you are out of ECM range, and assists those with LRMs, including yourself. Some call it a requirement of you plan on going solo in an LRM boat.

[BlindJustice]

That 4p looks like a great long distance hitter but I noticed you over heated after 3 blasts of the ppcs with only minimal additional shots of the ML. When I put it together in Smurphy. It looked like its heat effeceincy was only 21% unless, I did something wrong, I had 5 HS's. Granted if you take your shots then move around you have time to cool down as long as you have your big brothers around.

Red1769, on 23 July 2014 - 11:02 AM, said:

It cuts through ECM so long as you are out of ECM range, and assists those with LRMs, including yourself. Some call it a requirement of you plan on going solo in an LRM boat.

So a laser pointer. Not necessary.

[Koniving]

The game itself has issues with invisible obstacles.

For example, this is a wall. |
But. When you go to shoot... This is the wall. The dash represents an invisible surface that blocks bullets. |-
It looks clear, but if you fire you will hit the invisible wall and NOT penetrate.

A TAG will show you where those invisible walls are.
It also marks the enemy for others to attack. Any allies that can shoot missiles at it will see that symbol and will be more likely to shoot at it because it says "I am attacking this target, please support me."

[BlindJustice]

What about on the 4p putting an AMS where the TAG is with a half load of AMS Ammo to help minimize the missile hits after you duck down from a sniper shot with the PPC. No change in any real specs or weight. But gives a missile defense.

Koniving, on 23 July 2014 - 11:07 AM, said:

The game itself has issues with invisible obstacles.

For example, this is a wall. |
But. When you go to shoot... This is the wall. The dash represents an invisible surface that blocks bullets. |-
It looks clear, but if you fire you will hit the invisible wall and NOT penetrate.

A TAG will show you where those invisible walls are.
It also marks the enemy for others to attack. Any allies that can shoot missiles at it will see that symbol and will be more likely to shoot at it because it says "I am attacking this target, please support me."

ah so not necessary but gives an advantage for spotting and saying shoot here!

[Koniving]

You did it right. And that's exactly how it's meant to be played. A Hunchback is by design a slow moving hit and run mech. While it cools off it's meant to use buildings, large obstructions, and even allies as cover. It's an urban fighter assigned to city guard duties.

Here it is for the most part. Note though 5 heatsinks are added, there are 8 already in the engine. You don't want to be the center of attention. The weapons are intended to be used individually. The PPCs can pump out 20 damage instantly (for 20 units of heat; 10 per PPC.).

At first, it has these stats.
Cooling Rate : 2.30 heat/sec
Heat Threshold : 53

So at any one time you can generate 52 heat without shutting down. Two PPCs is 20 heat (20 damage). 6 ML is 24 heat for 30 damage (4 heat each and 5 damage each) but that damage is spread over the length of the beam. It's hot, that's true.

Ideally you do not want to fire everything at once. Instead, use PPCs for the hardened targets. Use lasers on targets that are too difficult to hit with PPCs (particularly fast targets) or for emergencies. Both sets of weapon are slow to recharge so the heat can be managed if not rushed.

What you can do is exchange some firepower. Trade a laser for a heatsink, for example. (There's a reason it's a tag and not a medium laser in the head; ghost heat would wreck this mech, 7 ML fired at once = punishment).

But when elited, it'll get better.

Cooling Rate : 2.65 heat/sec
Heat Threshold : 63.6

And right the tag isn't necessary. Considering how hot the PPCs are, it definitely helps to make sure they don't go to waste. Replace it with a heatsink if you want. If you do, move one laser from the RT to the head so you'll still have a laser if you lose the side.

Another design had 3 PPCs to be fired one at a time and several small lasers (lighter, colder but less range; used more for emergencies). Firing 3 PPCs at once punishes you with excess heat, though. It's much faster using the XL 275.

Some other ideas that involve other Hunchbacks.

Spoiler

Now, at the expense of an XL 275 engine and some risk, you can try doing it this way with a 4G. (A camera commando is filming me). Most of the kills are from attacking enemies that are already being attacked, however.

The camera having ECM helped keep me alive, too, up until I stupidly said I had an XL engine.

And for other ideas, this match had 3 or 4 Hunchbacks working together with the perspective of 2 of them.


A 4J.


A 4SP design. (Before the SRM fixes.)

(And for fun...)

Edited by Koniving, 23 July 2014 - 11:32 AM.

[luxebo]

BlindJustice, on 23 July 2014 - 11:04 AM, said:

So a laser pointer. Not necessary.

At least TAG is better than in MW4 Mercs Mekpak 3.1. That game's TAG literally does nothing but give you a fancy small laser that does no damage but weighs more. Also, Command Console used to be really really useless (3 tons of utterly nothing) but now at least it buffs a bit of stats and aiming, so it's viable for some mechs and loadouts, same as targeting computer.

Try all 12 of the trials and also remember mastering a mech requires 3 variants to master that chassis. I believe you are finished with your Cadet Bonus, but still, pick wisely, as your first mech will likely take a bit of time to finish. The Hunchback is not bad of a choice, I still run it once in a while, but remember that you'd want to have a 46-2 armor allocation to that big ol' hunch (except 4SP or Grid Iron). The rear torso of that right side is really tiny, therefore 46-2 works wonders. Also note that DHS > SHS, but you might want to skim on that (most people wouldn't recommend that at all but I did save a bit of cash early on without buying it).

Oh and also, Heroes cost MC but give a 30% C-bill bonus and a neat paint job, an extra variant worth, and other options that are special. Champions however are just preupgraded mechs and give 10% XP bonus.

[BlindJustice]

I was thinking of just buying and running the SP until I get enough to buy and build another of the variants. I will keep the one I like the most and just run it and sell the other after I do the whole mastering thing. I already have over 10 mil C-Bills and I will not spend any RL $ on this game so there won't be any Heroes in my Mech Bay. For other mechs, I will run the Trials if I want a different setup until I have what I want.

I figure I would most likely run Mediums and Lights. I like heavy's but I can always use one of the Trials for that. I like being able to move around the map and have a chance of escape should I make a turn that puts me in front of a couple of enemy mechs that are bigger than me.

[luxebo]

BlindJustice, on 23 July 2014 - 04:09 PM, said:

I was thinking of just buying and running the SP until I get enough to buy and build another of the variants. I will keep the one I like the most and just run it and sell the other after I do the whole mastering thing. I already have over 10 mil C-Bills and I will not spend any RL $ on this game so there won't be any Heroes in my Mech Bay. For other mechs, I will run the Trials if I want a different setup until I have what I want.

I figure I would most likely run Mediums and Lights. I like heavy's but I can always use one of the Trials for that. I like being able to move around the map and have a chance of escape should I make a turn that puts me in front of a couple of enemy mechs that are bigger than me.

Remember that as a Hunchie you'd likely be targeted heavily on that hunch. Try that 4P out if you haven't already, as it's neat and usable. (Wait is HBK-4P(C) in trials atm?)

You might want to lend PGI some support later on as you play, as Mech Bays will cost MC (well a couple bucks so it wouldn't be bad in comparison to hefty costing heroes and stuff.) Good luck out there, and maybe try to play with Smurfy in order to fine desired builds for the Hunchbacks.

[Vermaxx]

MW 3 used a blank canvas mech - you could gut it and put in anything you wanted. You were limited if the mech had full arms or hands I think.

MW 4 used a hardpoint system - BUUUUUUT you got as many hardpoints as the original item had crits. For example - a MW4 Hunchback would give you 10 ballistic 'slots.' You could put any combination of 10 ballistic slots into there - whether that be ten machine guns or one gauss.

I didn't do really any multi in either game. Both were more fun as far as playing goes though.

[TheCaptainJZ]

TAG is not *just* a laser pointer. It is a laser pointer that can target an enemy Mech under ECM coverage out to 750 meters. That means you and all your friends can see it and shoot it (easier), and most notably, with missiles.

Also, MWO=/=MW2, MWO=/=MW3, MWO=/=MW4
This game does not play like any previous ones. And I don't simply mean because stats are different. This game feels different and behaves differently and you are playing against humans, not AIs.

[BlindJustice]

TheCaptainJZ, on 23 July 2014 - 08:59 PM, said:

Also, MWO=/=MW2, MWO=/=MW3, MWO=/=MW4
This game does not play like any previous ones. And I don't simply mean because stats are different. This game feels different and behaves differently and you are playing against humans, not AIs.

I wasn't going to compare them as Human vs AI, just sample building and trying out heat management in a game environment. But thanks for the advise on the TAG. I may implement it into a mech design in my next variant or add it to my first one depending how it plays. Right now I put an AMS in it to slow down the missile magnet problem that I seem to have. For some reason they target the little guy and leave my big brothers alone.

too bad I haven't got the chance to try it out. Its been 8 min in search mode so far.

[TheCaptainJZ]

BlindJustice, on 23 July 2014 - 09:07 PM, said:

I wasn't going to compare them as Human vs AI, just sample building and trying out heat management in a game environment. But thanks for the advise on the TAG. I may implement it into a mech design in my next variant or add it to my first one depending how it plays. Right now I put an AMS in it to slow down the missile magnet problem that I seem to have. For some reason they target the little guy and leave my big brothers alone.

too bad I haven't got the chance to try it out. Its been 8 min in search mode so far.

I run nearly all my mechs with AMS. TAG is useful for some extra xp and cbills too.
If you would like to group up, I can hop on and play some rounds.

Edited by TheCaptainJZ, 23 July 2014 - 09:11 PM.

[BlindJustice]

I had to restart but I got into some games. 1st round went terrible. Didn't know how to set up my weapon slots (looked it up while dead) and got caught in the middle of a mess of my team and the other team in a no win situation. The only way out was to charge through them. Didn't work. I got 4 assists out of it though.

next two rounds were MUCH better. Survived with everything intact and had a few kills to go with it. I run out of AMS since I am able to carry only a half ton but it held out long enough to either help take out missiles targeting a team mate or myself. But I have enough to get me to cover and limit the damage.