31 replies to this topic

[DieGruneMorder]

I think that the latest nudering of jumpjets is a damn shame. This game is going all Clan all PPC and all LRM and it has gone too far. Aside from the jj "fix" the new heat restrictions have further effected every brawler mech i have in a very obvious way. Jumpjets are one of the things that make this game unique and fun to play. On top of everything else fall damage is so sensitive now, and it makes me think that flying around or running up in peoples grills and brawling is not worth the risk like they used to be. Am i the only one dissapointed by any of this? Who wants to stand around glued to the ground and snipe all day?

Edited by DieGruneMorder, 24 July 2014 - 05:46 PM.

[Adiuvo]

The JJ changes coupled with the SRM changes have finally made options other than jumpsniping viable. I'm pretty satisfied with them, barring a few cases such as the Highlander.

[Alexandrix]

Thank the poptarts for getting JJ's nerfed into near uselessness.Instead of just adding reticle shake through out the jump,they decided taking JJ's out behind the woodshed was a better idea.

Now the only thing jj's are good for is.....low height poptarting...surprise!

Albeit,i do enjoy seeing games that have things other than timbertarts and dragon slayers.It has brought some much needed variety to the game.

[Alistair Winter]

Adiuvo, on 24 July 2014 - 05:53 PM, said:

The JJ changes coupled with the SRM changes have finally made options other than jumpsniping viable. I'm pretty satisfied with them, barring a few cases such as the Highlander.

Didn't do any favours for light mechs. Nor were light mechs with jump jets ever a problem, as far as I know.

DieGruneMorder, on 24 July 2014 - 05:44 PM, said:

I think that the latest nudering of jumpjets is a damn shame. This game is going all Clan all PPC and all LRM and it has gone too far. Aside from the jj "fix" the new heat restrictions have further effected every brawler mech i have in a very obvious way. Jumpjets are one of the things that make this game unique and fun to play. On top of everything else fall damage is so sensitive now, and it makes me think that flying around or running up in peoples grills and brawling is not worth the risk like they used to be. Am i the only one dissapointed by any of this? Who wants to stand around glued to the ground and snipe all day?

One issue is that PGI doesn't want too much horizontal movement from jump jets. They want vertical jumps. With a lot of horizontal movement, being catapulted forward in addition to upwards, jump jetting would be more dynamic. It could possibly create some interesting situations. But PGI doesn't want that.

So if I have a choice between poptarts and grounded heavy / assault mechs, I'll go with the latter. I do think it's a bit stupid to see mechs use jump jets to climb steep hills, like old men needing a push to get up the stairs, but whatever.

Edited by Alistair Winter, 24 July 2014 - 06:14 PM.

[Agent 0 Fortune]

Bunny-hopping is hardly unique to MWO, and if you are struggling with the minimal heat adjustment I suggest reducing thread number of weapons to compensate (I honestly didn't think PGI needed to put a label on that, "if over-heating fire less weapons")

[Wolfways]

DieGruneMorder, on 24 July 2014 - 05:44 PM, said:

I think that the latest nudering of jumpjets is a damn shame. This game is going all Clan all PPC and all LRM and it has gone too far. Aside from the jj "fix" the new heat restrictions have further effected every brawler mech i have in a very obvious way. Jumpjets are one of the things that make this game unique and fun to play.

Ever heard of Global Agenda or Firefall. Try them, go JJ crazy

Quote

On top of everything else fall damage is so sensitive now, and it makes me think that flying around or running up in peoples grills and brawling is not worth the risk like they used to be. Am i the only one dissapointed by any of this? Who wants to stand around glued to the ground and snipe all day?

JJ's in BT are meant for getting over difficult terrain easier...not for combat brawling. Also, not having JJ's does not mean you can't brawl.

[FupDup]

PGI is so insistent on their MW4/Mechassault clone JJs that make you into a slowly hovering goodyear blimp. They're unfun and also enabled poptarts to exist for a loooong time, because they gave the user plenty of reaction time and let you only expose a little bit of the mech at a time.





MWLL had a much more interesting version of jets. Jets there gave you a much faster, more powerful "kick" that catapulted you rather than gently lifting you up. Jumping "just high enough" to be exposed wasn't usually an option because of this; you'd almost always be very exposed to return fire if you tried a poptart jump. You also drifted down to the ground slower in MWLL, giving an even larger window to shoot at poptarts. You could also cover some decent horizontal distance with the right jets, making them an awesome and badass tool for repositioning.

[DieGruneMorder]

Im talking about the fact that even mechs of mine with no jumpjets went down in heat efficiency overnight with the patch. Did no one else notice this change? I promise you it happened. I never used my jets for poptarting, and ive never found poptarting to be all that effective anyway...now jumping over a small building, doing a quick turnaround and ac-ing someone sounds pretty fun to me, and fair too.

[Jolly Llama]

Adiuvo, on 24 July 2014 - 05:53 PM, said:

The JJ changes coupled with the SRM changes have finally made options other than jumpsniping viable. I'm pretty satisfied with them, barring a few cases such as the Highlander.

It has done nothing to jump sniping. I made a couple minor adjustments and my Victor is still a jump sniping murder machine.

[Lykaon]

I am suprise we don't have more of the table top purist up in arms over the height/distance nerf.


Each jet should give 30m of jump distance and/or height by a strictly table top to MWo 1:1 conversion.

Compared to this our JJs are bottle rockets taped to toys.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Adiuvo, on 24 July 2014 - 05:53 PM, said:

The JJ changes coupled with the SRM changes have finally made options other than jumpsniping viable. I'm pretty satisfied with them, barring a few cases such as the Highlander.

But it has also removed options as well. For example, the short range, brawler striker mech that uses JJ mobility to get into advantageous positions and get out of bad ones.

My QD is a prime example, 4 MLs and 2 SRM6 and 1 SRM4. Max effective range, 270m. No jump sniping for me with this build however, I used to be able to use it to jump over ridges and buildings in order to flank enemy positions and strike at the enemy from angles they weren't expecting while retaining enough mobility to JUMP back out over buildings and ridges if my short range attack put me into a position where I was getting swarmed.

Can't do this now, not effectively at least and now I am debating selling one of my favorite mechs because of that fact.

However if I wanted to jump snipe, well I could just mount 2 ER PPCs on that same Quickdraw because it still jumps well enough to accomplish that type of game play. This begs the question, "How does the change make anything OTHER than jump sniping viable for heavy and assault, jump capable mechs???

Edited by Viktor Drake, 25 July 2014 - 05:49 AM.

[Blacksoul1987]

Viktor Drake, on 25 July 2014 - 05:48 AM, said:

But it has also removed options as well. For example, the short range, brawler striker mech that uses JJ mobility to get into advantageous positions and get out of bad ones.

My QD is a prime example, 4 MLs and 2 SRM6 and 1 SRM4. Max effective range, 270m. No jump sniping for me with this build however, I used to be able to use it to jump over ridges and buildings in order to flank enemy positions and strike at the enemy from angles they weren't expecting while retaining enough mobility to JUMP back out over buildings and ridges if my short range attack put me into a position where I was getting swarmed.

Can't do this now, not effectively at least and now I am debating selling one of my favorite mechs because of that fact.

However if I wanted to jump snipe, well I could just mount 2 ER PPCs on that same Quickdraw because it still jumps well enough to accomplish that type of game play. This begs the question, "How does the change make anything OTHER than jump sniping viable for heavy and assault, jump capable mechs???

I could be wrong maybe everything I see is an illusion but i'm pretty sure I just watched a series of HoL vs SwK and pretty much every match was mainly brawlers. dunno though.

[Adiuvo]

Viktor Drake, on 25 July 2014 - 05:48 AM, said:

But it has also removed options as well. For example, the short range, brawler striker mech that uses JJ mobility to get into advantageous positions and get out of bad ones.

My QD is a prime example, 4 MLs and 2 SRM6 and 1 SRM4. Max effective range, 270m. No jump sniping for me with this build however, I used to be able to use it to jump over ridges and buildings in order to flank enemy positions and strike at the enemy from angles they weren't expecting while retaining enough mobility to JUMP back out over buildings and ridges if my short range attack put me into a position where I was getting swarmed.

Can't do this now, not effectively at least and now I am debating selling one of my favorite mechs because of that fact.

However if I wanted to jump snipe, well I could just mount 2 ER PPCs on that same Quickdraw because it still jumps well enough to accomplish that type of game play. This begs the question, "How does the change make anything OTHER than jump sniping viable for heavy and assault, jump capable mechs???

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...c165e31f05837ad

4 less missiles, but it does basically the same thing and with max JJs. You don't really need max JJs so it's easy to cut one for an SRM6.

As for jump sniping, yes, you can still do it. Only you'll be jumping so much less than your actual jump DPS, which was the problem, is drastically lowered compared to how it used to be.

Blacksoul1987, on 25 July 2014 - 06:55 AM, said:

I could be wrong maybe everything I see is an illusion but i'm pretty sure I just watched a series of HoL vs SwK and pretty much every match was mainly brawlers. dunno though.

Pretty much. With Victors too, which everyone on this forum likes to pretend are completely bad at brawling...

http://www.twitch.tv/mwopro/c/4723274

[Adiuvo]

geodeath, on 24 July 2014 - 09:23 PM, said:

It has done nothing to jump sniping. I made a couple minor adjustments and my Victor is still a jump sniping murder machine.

If you played the sit-back-and-press-spacebar 'poptarting' style, then no it's not really affected besides that you'll be getting shots off much less. That way of playing was never a problem. You couldn't carry a team by doing that since you're effectively out of the fight at all times.

Aggressive play, actual jumpsniping, however, is majorly impacted. Jumping DPS combined with AC5/PPC mechs were basically required so that you could actually push. AC5/PPC mechs don't have the tonnage free to mount more JJs, so the risk-free jumping shots they enjoyed are majorly slowed down.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Adiuvo, on 25 July 2014 - 08:46 AM, said:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...c165e31f05837ad

4 less missiles, but it does basically the same thing and with max JJs. You don't really need max JJs so it's easy to cut one for an SRM6.

As for jump sniping, yes, you can still do it. Only you'll be jumping so much less than your actual jump DPS, which was the problem, is drastically lowered compared to how it used to be.


Pretty much. With Victors too, which everyone on this forum likes to pretend are completely bad at brawling...

http://www.twitch.tv/mwopro/c/4723274

I run max or near max JJs on my QD builds already and it is not anywhere the near the same mobility I had before. That is the problem. I cannot, now, pull off the same kind of jump tactics that I found were required to make the mech viable as a short range jump capable striker. That is my main gripe.

Also I have to be honest and say I am also upset about the fact I have spent quite literally hours and hours in the testing grounds learning how to maximize the use of my JJs specifically for use in this role. This is hours spent learning jump timings based on visual ques, hours spend practicing in air rotational movements designed so I would land at precise angles to attack and fade, hours spent learning what I could jump over and what I couldn't. Hours spent for absolutely nothing now that JJs do not perform as they did before. My timing is completely screwed up and obstacles that I could clear easily now are insurmountable.

So not only did the JJ nerf significantly effect performance, but now I also have to relearn, from scratch, how to use them again. Needless to say I am not a happy camper, especially since not once did anyone every complain that using max jump jets was an issue. PGI basically drastically changed something that was not broken nor needed a any change other than diminishing the effectiveness of 1-2 JJs on a mech.

[Lefty Lucy]

The heat penalty isn't even working the way it was described in the patch notes: it doesn't heat you up at all, it just prevents you from cooling, no matter how many HS you have.

[Gas Guzzler]

Adiuvo, on 24 July 2014 - 05:53 PM, said:

The JJ changes coupled with the SRM changes have finally made options other than jumpsniping viable. I'm pretty satisfied with them, barring a few cases such as the Highlander.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

I hope they fix the Highlander.

[SilentWolff]

Blacksoul1987, on 25 July 2014 - 06:55 AM, said:

I could be wrong maybe everything I see is an illusion but i'm pretty sure I just watched a series of HoL vs SwK and pretty much every match was mainly brawlers. dunno though.

Which is why nerfing poptarting into the ground is just stupid. But its been obvious for the past year PGI wants this to be a brawling game, not a game that take takes any real skill to play.

[Gas Guzzler]

Lefty Lucy, on 25 July 2014 - 12:37 PM, said:

The heat penalty isn't even working the way it was described in the patch notes: it doesn't heat you up at all, it just prevents you from cooling, no matter how many HS you have.

Actually, my meta 733C with 4 JJs heats up when jumping. It depends on how many jump jets you have and how many heat sinks you have.

Either way, not being able to cool off while jumping for sure has an impact. I have been consistently running hotter in my jump sniping builds and have had to adapt. Not complaining, that is how it should be.

I brought out my Ember to brush the cobwebs off and I gotta say... it is still fine. I think I am only running 2-3 JJs on it and it is enough for what I want to do with it.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Gas Guzzler, on 25 July 2014 - 01:05 PM, said:

Actually, my meta 733C with 4 JJs heats up when jumping. It depends on how many jump jets you have and how many heat sinks you have.

Either way, not being able to cool off while jumping for sure has an impact. I have been consistently running hotter in my jump sniping builds and have had to adapt. Not complaining, that is how it should be.

I brought out my Ember to brush the cobwebs off and I gotta say... it is still fine. I think I am only running 2-3 JJs on it and it is enough for what I want to do with it.

Yeah I agree. Not being able to cool off while jumping puts a significant dent into your mechs ability to manage heat if you jump alot. However I can live with this and actually think it is probably a good change that adds a bit more skill to using JJs.

I also don't mind the fall damage either.

I just want to actually be able to jump over an Atlas, hope over a ridge and reach the top of the canyon walls without face planting into that Atlas, Ridge or Wall or getting caught on the edge.