Jump to content

Blueduck's Full Mastered Review Of All Things Clan

Gameplay

23 replies to this topic

#1 Star Wolves Admin Account

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Mercenary Rank 2
  • Mercenary Rank 2
  • 1,378 posts

Posted 27 July 2014 - 10:57 AM

I have mastered (in the formal sense of upgrades mind you) every single of the prime clan mechs and am going to post a review of each mech, overall clan tech, and how all this relates to the IS. I will also give you my most successful mech builds with the review of each mech. To begin, here are my thoughts on the mechs themselves:

Mech Review


Summoner: Rating, 1/5 Stars - Well, he is pretty redundant and every review needs a baseline so I guess he is it. I am a Wolf guy but I really wanted to love him regardless. I tried to come up with something unique for him but in every instance I found the Timberwolf or some other mech does it better. The role the summoner was supposed to play was a reasonably well armored medium type weapons platform with good mobility. The Timberwolf beats him in every regards and he brings nothing unique to the picture. For this he gets 1 star. Also, his arms just feel weird in regards to how the weapons track.That said, I am still typically in the top 1/4 of my team scorewise with this build. Record damage: 700

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...f7ee63c2e0a48a2


Adder: Rating, 2/5 Stars - He is low slung, somewhat slow, and can pack a good punch; however, he is almost completely inferior to the kitfox minus some unique weapon configs. I personally enjoy using him with powerful short range weapons as he is often ignored but will tear off armor like nobodies business. Record damage: 900

[smurfy]http://mwo.smurfy-ne...16063c7d73f1017[/smurfy]


Direwolf: Rating 3/5 Stars - He is slow, completely unagile without his full 2x basic upgrades, and has a giant CT. That said he has the best weapon platforms in the game. He scores low in my ratings because he has no ability to get himself out of danger or get the fight to help his teammates out; that said a good DireWolf pilot can single handily with the game for his team if he is protected. Record damage: 1600

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...a2e71598406757e


StormCrow: Rating 3.5/5 Stars - A fast, mobile weapons platform that is superior to the adder in everyway except he isn't low slung to the ground. He can function in any roll but really doesn't define himself in anyway due to his pure all around nature. You could interchange my score of the nova and stormcrow depending on your view. Record damge: 900

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...42b1a90738c7c30


Nova: Rating 4/5 Stars - Oh man is this guy nasty up close. He won't single core a timberwolf or direwolf by himself typically but he can come close. I have blown atlases and stalkers away at close range and come out my internals in the orange. Typically my damage per round isn't as high as with others but that is because this guy is really to be played as a suicide front line fighter; although he can function well enough as a ppc sniper. That said, I have come out of a match with all my MG ammo gone, 2 lasers, 1 leg, all remaining torsos in the red and lived to tell the tale. Don't underestimate the fact he has JJ and is low to the ground. My particular variant requires very good control group utilization to manage the heat. Record damage: 1100

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...8c353791595f666


Warhawk: Rating 4.5/5 Stars - A very misunderstood, not well utilized mech. Essentially what you have here is a fast moving weapons platform that can take a beating like a stalker. His weapon pods are strange and require some finagling but if you can figure it out I think he is superior to the direwolf in almost every regard. My particular variant utilizes the max targeting computer, 4 large lasers, tons of heat sinks, and some streak 2's to help with pesky lights that aren't scared of 4 large lasers to the face. With my variant you need 2 groups of 2 large lasers; one for each hand. I typically chain fire the streaks to keep a constant peppering of missles going. Record damage: 1800

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...aabdda68f0951c4


Timberwolf: Rating 5/5 Stars - What can be said, fast, hits hard, well armored and typically the last mech alive on the battlefield. The fact he can equip jump jets almost spits in the novas and directly into the summoners face. His only minor drawback is he can't boat lasers like the direwolf and nova but really he was never designed for this. Probably the best mech in the game. You'll notice my damage may not be as high with him as with others but he brings so much more to the battlefield than damage; the ability to get right where he is needed due to his speed and with his level of firepower makes him the best in my opinion. My variant uses tons of control groups due to the sheer number of weapons. Record damage: 1400

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...1b3dc66144f822d


Kitfox: Rating 5/5 Stars - Best assist mech in the game with only the raven coming anywhere near. ECM is huge, up to 3 AMS is just unbelievable, and his weapon potential is only limited by the fact his arms tend to boat everything which is not necessarily a drawback. Bring him along and watch your team face roll the other team if you assist well. His only minor drawback is that he is somewhat slow for his size but he is made to stick with the assaults and heavies so who cares anyway. Use him as a support sniper and you will be loved by your team. Record Damage: 700

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...66f1277e077ebef


Clan Tech Review


Definitely not quite as overwhelming as many believe. The clan ultraautos are inferior to the basic IS auto cannon in my opinion leaving the best option being the LBX which unfortunately is not effected by the targeting computers. Likewise LBX often have the weapon and ammo to be located in opposite torsos or arms due to the preassignment of pod crits. This leaves the clan auto cannons in a weird position and inferior to the IS variants. That said, the LBX 20 cannon is the most fun weapon in the game and the LBX 5 is a true beast if used well.

Clan LRMs are another oddity. They are definitely lighter and its nice not to have a minimum range but they are really not as effective to boat as the IS variant. That said they are a better all around weapon than the IS variant and in my view better balanced. They pepper me with damage, the IS variants can single handedly annihilate me. Clan streaks with the exception of the 2 are pretty terrible due to there long reload time.

Clan lasers and SRMS; ah now here we go. These guys are true beasts. Clan lasers are flat up just better than the IS variants regardless of the heat penalty as they have higer damage and can shoot across half the map. Likewise the SRM with an artemis is going to do some serious damage for a better damage per ton value than the IS counter part. Pulse lasers aren't worth the tons with maybe only the medium being useful in my opinion.

Clan Gauss and Clan PPC are interesting. The clan gauss is just better but is often limited by weird clan pod preassignment. The ERPPC is another weapon that has better damage than the IS counterpart, naturally it is a bit harder to compare the IS PPC to the clan ERPPC.

Targeting computers are completely awesome by the way. I would suggest using at least one ton if you boat more than 4 lasers. My 4 erlarge laser warhawk with the max targeting computer is hilarious to watch on alpine. He never stops firing and can hit while I see the lasers coming at me stopping before they hit.


Clans and the IS


Not quite as unbalanced as you first might believe. The IS definitely enjoys an auto cannon and LRM advantage but it is impossible to ignore that the clans can boat more and better laser weapons.

The IS has more versatility in their configs, but I largely find that the ability of the clans to adjust weapons in mass wins out by a slight margin to engine speeds and such.

IS mechs are still very viable with the Shadowhawk, Atlas, BlackJack, JaegerMech, Jenner, Raven, Firestarter, Griffin, Catapract, Catapault, Stalker, Banshee, Hunchback, and Battlemaster coming to mind.

I think it is impossible to ignore thought that the clan mechs are still better overall and really need to be given a ton per match nerf. Something in the range of 10 Clan to 12 IS mechs would probably be more fair.


At any rate this is my review and I hoped you enjoyed.

Edited by Blueduck, 27 July 2014 - 07:18 PM.


#2 Kyrie

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Bad Company
  • Bad Company
  • 1,271 posts

Posted 27 July 2014 - 11:22 AM

These are not "all the clan mechs" though. Missing the Nova, Warhawk...

#3 Star Wolves Admin Account

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Mercenary Rank 2
  • Mercenary Rank 2
  • 1,378 posts

Posted 27 July 2014 - 11:54 AM

View PostKyrie, on 27 July 2014 - 11:22 AM, said:

These are not "all the clan mechs" though. Missing the Nova, Warhawk...


Sorry, was filling in more as I went along. Its done now. :)

#4 Mcgral18

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • CS 2019 Top 8 Qualifier
  • CS 2019 Top 8 Qualifier
  • 17,987 posts
  • LocationSnow

Posted 27 July 2014 - 12:09 PM

One quick correction with the lasers, there are only 2 that are outright better than the IS lasers.

ERML does .38 more damage in the same period as the isML, at greater range for one extra point of heat. ERSL has nearly double range, extra damage but both deal the same 3 damage in .75 seconds. Still better in every way.

cERLL requires 1.2 seconds to deal the same 9 damage as the is(ER)LL. Same heat for both the ERLLs, but greater range for the Clans. Situationally better, but allows for better spread capabilities compared to the IS beams.

cPulse lasers are also outright rubbish compared to the already rubbish IS pulse laser. Over twice the burn time for the cLPL for barely any extra damage.


SRMs and MGs are outright better, half the weight for the same stats.

#5 Star Wolves Admin Account

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Mercenary Rank 2
  • Mercenary Rank 2
  • 1,378 posts

Posted 27 July 2014 - 12:11 PM

View PostMcgral18, on 27 July 2014 - 12:09 PM, said:

One quick correction with the lasers, there are only 2 that are outright better than the IS lasers.

ERML does .38 more damage in the same period as the isML, at greater range for one extra point of heat. ERSL has nearly double range, extra damage but both deal the same 3 damage in .75 seconds. Still better in every way.

cERLL requires 1.2 seconds to deal the same 9 damage as the is(ER)LL. Same heat for both the ERLLs, but greater range for the Clans. Situationally better, but allows for better spread capabilities compared to the IS beams.

cPulse lasers are also outright rubbish compared to the already rubbish IS pulse laser. Over twice the burn time for the cLPL for barely any extra damage.


SRMs and MGs are outright better, half the weight for the same stats.


You are correct my friend. I did not mean that they were completely better but rather the minor drawbacks really don't measure up compared to the overall benefit.

#6 Roland

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,260 posts

Posted 27 July 2014 - 12:25 PM

The OP is underselling the Ryoken

#7 Jiang Wei

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 375 posts

Posted 27 July 2014 - 12:44 PM

His review is completely subjective and has no real value.

#8 Warhound

    Member

  • Pip
  • The Hunter
  • The Hunter
  • 18 posts

Posted 27 July 2014 - 12:47 PM

I find your lack of faith in the Summoner disturbing, sure the prime is lacking ammo and armour and quite frankly needs a fine tune to be better but the B and D variants are fantastic

Summoner-B [smurfy]http://mwo.smurfy-ne...2136ed93fcc811e[/smurfy]

This is my Splat-Thor, yes your engagement range is 270m max and you are dependent on your team until you get to the fight but you can rip targets apart with SRM volleys.

Summoner-D [smurfy]http://mwo.smurfy-ne...bbc3f3637e761eb[/smurfy]

who doesn't love high mounted Nipple Cannons and you have 4 ER medium lasers for backup

#9 Angel of Annihilation

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Infernal
  • The Infernal
  • 8,881 posts

Posted 27 July 2014 - 01:43 PM

View PostJiang Wei, on 27 July 2014 - 12:44 PM, said:

His review is completely subjective and has no real value.


I have to agree with you here but then again all reviews a subjective so it is what it is.

As for my comments, I don't agree that Clan Lasers are better across the board. C-ER LLs suck massively compared to IS versions in my opinion anyway. People tend to dismiss that pulse duration and focus on the range of C-ER LLs and generally just don't understand just how much more effective the shorter pulse weapons are. Its odd too because people all acknowledge the superiority of Pin Point FLD but somehow fail to comprehend that applying all your damage faster is a massive benefit.

Also his evaluation of some of the mechs seems to demonstrate a lack of understanding the role of the mech. Some are spot on but on others he obviously did not test them to their fullest potential.

#10 Star Wolves Admin Account

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Mercenary Rank 2
  • Mercenary Rank 2
  • 1,378 posts

Posted 27 July 2014 - 01:45 PM

View PostJiang Wei, on 27 July 2014 - 12:44 PM, said:

His review is completely subjective and has no real value.


A review is always subjective hence the name review. I'm not going to apply the scientific method to a video game

#11 Star Wolves Admin Account

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Mercenary Rank 2
  • Mercenary Rank 2
  • 1,378 posts

Posted 27 July 2014 - 01:51 PM

"As for my comments, I don't agree that Clan Lasers are better across the board. C-ER LLs suck massively compared to IS versions in my opinion anyway. People tend to dismiss that pulse duration and focus on the range of C-ER LLs and generally just don't understand just how much more effective the shorter pulse weapons are. Its odd too because people all acknowledge the superiority of Pin Point FLD but somehow fail to comprehend that applying all your damage faster is a massive benefit.

Also his evaluation of some of the mechs seems to demonstrate a lack of understanding the role of the mech. Some are spot on but on others he obviously did not test them to their fullest potential."

A large pulse laser range of around 600 compared to 900ish for the errlarge laser for the cost of two more tons lowers any small gain in beam duration that is not better dealt with my a ppc or good aim. I boated pulses for awhile and in terms of ability to core a mech I would take 2 er compared to one pulse.

In terms of the mech roles I ran ever single type of weapons config possible while I was mastering the mech. I chose the role I found to be the most effective and I never claimed that my review of the likely role was the only role.

Thanks for the feedback and opinions of course :)

View PostWarhound, on 27 July 2014 - 12:47 PM, said:

I find your lack of faith in the Summoner disturbing, sure the prime is lacking ammo and armour and quite frankly needs a fine tune to be better but the B and D variants are fantastic

Summoner-B [smurfy]http://mwo.smurfy-ne...2136ed93fcc811e[/smurfy]

This is my Splat-Thor, yes your engagement range is 270m max and you are dependent on your team until you get to the fight but you can rip targets apart with SRM volleys.

Summoner-D [smurfy]http://mwo.smurfy-ne...bbc3f3637e761eb[/smurfy]

who doesn't love high mounted Nipple Cannons and you have 4 ER medium lasers for backup


I really hate having to give the summoner 1 star, believe me I really really didn't want to. My review was based upon overall comparison to competitors though and he just wasn't able to compete ton for ton compared to the others.

Don't get me wrong, he is still an awesome mech that can do a lot of damage. I just found him to be the weakest in terms of roll definition per tonnage when compared to the rest.

The other summoner I tended to roll have 4 mediums and 2 lbx 5s. He was awesome but it is again the problem that the TW can do the exact same build with only the mounting locations of the weapons being different. Summoner might have a small advantage on the location end but overall I don't think it was worth the loss of armor, ammo, and heatsinks.

Edited by Blueduck, 27 July 2014 - 01:54 PM.


#12 Star Wolves Admin Account

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Mercenary Rank 2
  • Mercenary Rank 2
  • 1,378 posts

Posted 27 July 2014 - 01:55 PM

View PostRoland, on 27 July 2014 - 12:25 PM, said:

The OP is underselling the Ryoken


He was one of my favorites to use and man did he rack up the assists. It was really hard to put him where he was but overall I found him a bit worse than the warhawk or the nova. It was a tough call.

#13 Angel of Annihilation

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Infernal
  • The Infernal
  • 8,881 posts

Posted 27 July 2014 - 04:23 PM

View PostBlueduck, on 27 July 2014 - 01:51 PM, said:



A large pulse laser range of around 600 compared to 900ish for the errlarge laser for the cost of two more tons lowers any small gain in beam duration that is not better dealt with my a ppc or good aim. I boated pulses for awhile and in terms of ability to core a mech I would take 2 er compared to one pulse.

In terms of the mech roles I ran ever single type of weapons config possible while I was mastering the mech. I chose the role I found to be the most effective and I never claimed that my review of the likely role was the only role.

Thanks for the feedback and opinions of course :)



Well I will agree for the most part on the C-LPL though I do still prefer the C-LPL to the C-ER LL for a few reasons. First, the beam duration does make a difference but your right not that large. However with the C-LPL you get more damage in a shorter pulse. This adds up over time. Also the C-LPL is cooler which means you can shave a DHS or two from you design which offsets the weight disadvantage a bit. Lastly, range isn't that much of an advantage or not as much as people want to make it out to be. Most fighting takes place at under 500m so whether a beam has 600m range or 900m range, there really isn't a whole lot of difference.

However, my comment was really directed to how badly the C-ER LL sucks compared to the IS ER LL.

Now in terms of mech roles, I have no doubt you tested alot of different weapons, however that doesn't mean you actually understood each individual mech. For example, your review of the Stormcrow really makes me feel like you didn't understand the mech. For example you say that they mech didn't define itself well but then say that it is due to its all around nature. What you missed was that its all around nature is what actually defines it and makes it a good mech. Again reviews are subjective so your experience is going to differ from mine and you offered an honest opinion so it is what it is.

#14 Roland

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,260 posts

Posted 27 July 2014 - 04:50 PM

View PostBlueduck, on 27 July 2014 - 01:55 PM, said:

He was one of my favorites to use and man did he rack up the assists. It was really hard to put him where he was but overall I found him a bit worse than the warhawk or the nova. It was a tough call.

64 point alphastrike moving at over 100kph? Yeah, I think I'll take the Ryoken any day of the week. It's a beast of a mech.

#15 Scratx

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Survivor
  • Survivor
  • 3,283 posts

Posted 27 July 2014 - 05:32 PM

Correction to the OP : the cERPPC does exactly the same PPFLD damage as the IS PPC and ERPPC... but it also does the splash damage. It is therefore straight up better than the IS ERPPC in every way that counts.

The IS PPC is another matter, however, because it's much cooler running.

#16 Ace Selin

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,534 posts
  • LocationAustralia

Posted 27 July 2014 - 05:41 PM

Agreed, OPs point of view is just that his, not the reality of how good the mechs are to people playing them. I personally like the Summoner, yet you give it 1 star because its outperformed by the Timberwolf, in that case 90% (or more) of mechs (IS included) deserve 1 star in that case. So NO.

Edited by Ace Selin, 27 July 2014 - 05:42 PM.


#17 Kiiyor

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Big Daddy
  • Big Daddy
  • 5,565 posts
  • LocationSCIENCE.

Posted 27 July 2014 - 05:45 PM

View PostRoland, on 27 July 2014 - 12:25 PM, said:

The OP is underselling the Ryoken


QFT.

The DoomCrow is far more versatile than the Nova. Faster, better hitboxes (except the legs), more usable weapon hardpoints that don't require you to expose your whole silhouette to be able to fire, and more tonnage for weapons and heatsinks. You can brawl with SRM's, support at long range with ERPPC's or ERLL's, or mix it up with both.

The Nova has it over the Crow with the sheer number of Lasers it can mount, but they aren't that usable. The Crow can still mount 7 ERMLAS, and have far more cooling efficiency.

#18 Scratx

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Survivor
  • Survivor
  • 3,283 posts

Posted 27 July 2014 - 05:50 PM

Nova vs Ryoken essentially boils down to how much you value JJs over more speed and flexibility.

I prefer the Ryoken in general, though the Nova can be brutally murderous in the right hands.

As for 1 star on the Summoner... might be a little harsher than deserved but it really isn't a chassis that's worth much. The only good thing about it is relatively high mounted ballistic hardpoints, which make it unusually good for clan-mechs for hull-down positions.

Now if only you actually could mount two large ballistics on that mech....

#19 LordKnightFandragon

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,239 posts

Posted 27 July 2014 - 05:52 PM

Hmm OP, you rate the Warhawk a 4.5/5 lol. Nice

You use a loadout similar to the one I have on my B, though I havent done much amazing with it.

I use 4x LL and an Art SRM6 with max heatsinks. I had a TC4, but cant decide if 2 more DHS are better or the TC4...

Either way, from what I have played of it, I like the Warhawk just fine. It moves like a fat heavy, takes a beating like a fat heavy and dishes damage fairly well. Whats it like elited and 2x?

#20 Xeno Phalcon

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Bad Company
  • 2,461 posts
  • LocationEvening Ladies

Posted 27 July 2014 - 06:03 PM

View PostScratx, on 27 July 2014 - 05:50 PM, said:

Nova vs Ryoken essentially boils down to how much you value JJs over more speed and flexibility.

I prefer the Ryoken in general, though the Nova can be brutally murderous in the right hands.


Well from a technical point of view the Stormcrow is a vastly superior machine: The nova uses standard armor, standard frame while having four hardwired DHS and five hardwired jump jets limiting its weapon payload to a meager 16 tons. Compared to the Stormcrow that mounts a bigger engine, FF AND endosteel while having neither hardwired heatsinks or jump jets packs a whopping 23 tons of weapon space.

Thats without even considering the Stormcrows smooth hitboxes and gangly profile; while the nova is wide as a barn with massive easy to hit arms and legs.

---------------------

Ironically the one thing the nova should have over the Stormcrow is directly countered by the hardwired jump jets (crit space) where the Nova has at most 34 crits the Stormcrow has 33 (25 if you mount four DHS to emulate the nova), this problem is further compounded by the Nova utterly lacking any missile hardpoint options omitting one of the medium mechs most effective weapons, the SRM.




View PostLordKnightFandragon, on 27 July 2014 - 05:52 PM, said:

Either way, from what I have played of it, I like the Warhawk just fine. It moves like a fat heavy, takes a beating like a fat heavy and dishes damage fairly well. Whats it like elited and 2x?


Warhawks are sexy beasts when elited, exceptionally deadly brawlers despite their bulky size while still able to defend themselves well as snipers; more than one light has learned the hard way that you CANNOT treat a warhawk like a dire whale.

Edited by Xeno Phalcon, 27 July 2014 - 06:06 PM.






1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users