Yeah agree they also have some handicaps. I would like to see a Devastator or Annihilator in game as a counterpart for a Direwolf. Ah yeah i forgot BAP, thanks for the reminder.
Glad to help my friend.
I would dance so happily if they add the Annihilator in. I already know someone in my RCT who would just explode from sheer joy and ecstasy at the sight of a mech that mounts 4 LB-10Xs. That's his holiest weapon. The man slaps it on any mech that can mount it.
I also would love to see a devastator (2 Gauss 2 PPC on an IS mech. Stock!)
I would dance so happily if they add the Annihilator in. I already know someone in my RCT who would just explode from sheer joy and ecstasy at the sight of a mech that mounts 4 LB-10Xs. That's his holiest weapon. The man slaps it on any mech that can mount it.
I also would love to see a devastator (2 Gauss 2 PPC on an IS mech. Stock!)
What you want to do, is use terrain for cover, get close, and hit and fade. Smack those test tube babies when they least expect it, and then disappear. Spin around, and smack them from another area. Or get close, fast, and brawl, bring them into melee range, where they will spread their damage a lot, and are more likely to miss, get them to over heat, and keep smacking their CTs.
The funny irony here is that a crucial element for the Inner Sphere is missing. For anyone reading this, ever thought as to why the Firestarter was called that? It started fires. Burn the trees, burn the grass, burn the bushes and what do you have? Thermal cover. Smoke and fire, all of it billowing and obscuring both standard visual and thermal visions. To some extent thick enough smoke cover even blocks/confuses sensors in TT.
Today alone I've had to switch to Seismic sensors to deal with the smoke on Megamek (digital tabletop) and even then I couldn't 'hit' the target with a god-mode pilot.
(I had a number of sensor upgrades on my Custom PGI-Standard meta Shadowhawk; which btw the MWO meta is COMPLETELY worthless in Battletech; even with manageable heat and a 0/0 pilot with maximum possible armor and every feasible upgrade, the MWO meta is absolutely worthless in basic rules, advanced tactical rules for BT, and Solaris Arena. It even had ECM. At one point I had 3 of them with the support of a custom-built Locust hero knock-off [6 MGs, 2 energy] and I was up against 1 Stock Wolverine 7K with what was also a 0/0 pilot. All of 4 of my units were slaughtered).
ThrottleGeek's recent "Do you even "Q" bruh" video covers a good way to deal with threats in the attack from behind tidbit.
IraqiWalker, on 04 August 2014 - 04:30 PM, said:
Clan pulse lasers are ... I'm not comfortable with the latest tweak to them, they were supposed to be comparable, if not weaker in many regards to their clan normal counterparts.
They did it because of complaints of them being nearly identical in damage and heat but with shorter ranges and only slightly shorter beam times.
Funny thing about this... Regular lasers were supposedly infrequently fired due to high energy draw as well as high damage output. Pulse lasers did more damage in 10 seconds, sure, but far as the books go if you turned Battletech into Star Trek... then Lasers are Phasers, and Pulse Lasers are Disruptors. Or in audiophile terms...
IS Laser = "Peeeeeew. Peeeeeeeeew. Peeeeew." 5 damage. (1.67 per shot, 3 shots, bam 5 damage).
Pulse Laser = "Pew-pew-pew-pew-pew (inhale) pew-pew-pew-pew-pew-pew (inhale) pew-pew-pew-pew-pew-pew-pew (exhale, wheeze)." 6 damage. (0.33[repeating] per shot, 18 shots, rat-tat-tat 6 damage).
Sadly the lore here never could be done in past MW games, though they were in the videos. The reason was the limitations of internet connections at the time as well as the difficulties of getting a weapon that fires 'laser projectiles' that are as 'fast as light'. It could be done in MWO, but the devs at PGI went by what could be seen in past MW games.
MW4 came the closest, and later Mech Assault.
Spoiler
In this cinematic, skip to after 3 minutes. The "laser bullets" are pulse lasers. The firing frequency is more for show, but some lasers like the Rassal Blue Beam it only fired once in a rating, dealing the full damage. Some Inner Sphere medium lasers fired up to 7 times just to do 5 damage in the books. The pulse lasers could fire up to 50 times in a 'single rating', so an MPL might fire up to 50 times to do 6 damage; but it fires much more rapidly.
MW4 in-game. I'm actually quite surprised as many of the other MW4 vids showed a really crappy flickering laser which is what PGI based it on for MWO.
------------
What they saw in past games, too, influenced the ACs here. One bad thing is that from the 'puking up to 100 shots in a single squeeze' tidbit in lore, ACs always got an MG/burst fire rep about them that sounded like 'rat-tat-tat' despite how the 3-round-burst AC/5 at 120mm is more like this
Far as tabletop.. Well, lets just say you'd see why mechs don't go 150 kph typically.
For example (and these guys are typically going 81 to 97).
Spoiler
Movement Phase
-------------------
Kintaro KTO-19 (Koniving) must make a piloting skill check while moving in hex 0908 (running & turning on pavement).
Needs 4 [5 (Base piloting skill) - 1 (running & turning on pavement)], rolls 7 : succeeds.
Kintaro KTO-19 (Koniving) must make a piloting skill check while moving from hex 1008 to hex 1109 (entering Rubble).
Needs 5 [5 (Base piloting skill) + 0 (entering Rubble)], rolls 4 : falls.
Kintaro KTO-19 (Koniving) falls 0 level(s) into hex 1109
Kintaro KTO-19 (Koniving) falls on its left side, suffering 6 damage.
Kintaro KTO-19 (Koniving) takes 5 damage to LT.
13 Armor remaining.
Kintaro KTO-19 (Koniving) takes 1 damage to CT.
7 Armor remaining.
Pilot of Kintaro KTO-19 (Koniving) "Rebecca MacKissack" must roll 5 to avoid damage; rolls 4 : fails.
Pilot of Kintaro KTO-19 (Koniving) "Rebecca MacKissack" takes 1 damage.
Pilot of Kintaro KTO-19 (Koniving) "Rebecca MacKissack" needs a 3 to stay conscious. Rolls 8 : successful!
Kintaro KTO-19 (Koniving) must make a piloting skill check (getting up).
Needs 5 [5 (Base piloting skill) + 0 (getting up)], rolls 9 : succeeds.
Cattlemaster CTL-2 (Hunter) (Koniving) must make a piloting skill check while moving in hex 0713 (running & turning on pavement).
Needs 4 [5 (Base piloting skill) - 1 (running & turning on pavement)], rolls 7 : succeeds.
Gotta be careful about what buildings you jump on.
Spoiler
Movement Phase
-------------------
Building #20512 collapses due to heavy load.
Trebuchet TBT-7M (Koniving) is hit by falling debris for 4 damage.
Trebuchet TBT-7M (Koniving) takes 4 damage to CT.
18 Armor remaining.
Trebuchet TBT-7M (Koniving) falls 3 level(s) into hex 1109
Trebuchet TBT-7M (Koniving) falls on its front, suffering 20 damage.
Trebuchet TBT-7M (Koniving) takes 5 damage to LL.
10 Armor remaining.
Trebuchet TBT-7M (Koniving) takes 5 damage to RT.
6 Armor remaining.
Trebuchet TBT-7M (Koniving) takes 5 damage to RA.
5 Armor remaining.
Trebuchet TBT-7M (Koniving) takes 5 damage to RT.
1 Armor remaining.
Pilot of Trebuchet TBT-7M (Koniving) "Jamie Wynn" must roll 7 to avoid damage; rolls 9 : succeeds.
Stormcrow H-UK (Lordred) must make a piloting skill check while moving in hex 1508 (running & turning on pavement).
Needs 3 [4 (Base piloting skill) - 1 (running & turning on pavement)], rolls 10 : succeeds.
Oh and while in MWO a Dire Wolf Prime can alpha strike everything at once and just shut down for a split second, a Dire Wolf in tabletop across 10 seconds firing each weapon one at a time will have this happen to it...
Spoiler
Daishi versus King Crab
Initiative Phase for Round #1
-------------------
Lordred rolls a 9[9+0].
Koniving rolls a 6[6+0].
Wind direction is Northeast. Wind strength is Calm. The weather is Clear. Visibility is Daylight.
Fog level is None.
????: ???? BV remaining (from ???? initially) ???? BV fled
Koniving: 2181 BV remaining (from 2181 initially) 0 BV fled
--------------------
Movement Phase
--------------------
The arena is relatively small.
The King Crab walks forward 30 meters with caution.
The Dire Wolf charges at full speed.
---------------------
Weapon Attack Phase
-------------------
Weapons fire for King Crab KGC-010 (Koniving)
PPC at Daishi (Dire Wolf) Prime (Lordred); needs 6, rolls 7 : hits CT
Daishi (Dire Wolf) Prime (Lordred) takes 10 damage to CT.
37 Armor remaining.
PPC at Daishi (Dire Wolf) Prime (Lordred); needs 6, rolls 7 : hits RA
Daishi (Dire Wolf) Prime (Lordred) takes 10 damage to RA.
24 Armor remaining.
LB 10-X AC at Daishi (Dire Wolf) Prime (Lordred); needs 6, rolls 8 : hits RT
Daishi (Dire Wolf) Prime (Lordred) takes 10 damage to RT.
22 Armor remaining.
LB 10-X AC at Daishi (Dire Wolf) Prime (Lordred); needs 6, rolls 7 : hits LT
Daishi (Dire Wolf) Prime (Lordred) takes 10 damage to LT.
22 Armor remaining.
Weapons fire for Daishi (Dire Wolf) Prime (Lordred)
ER Large Laser at King Crab KGC-010 (Koniving); needs 5, rolls 2 : misses
ER Large Laser at King Crab KGC-010 (Koniving); needs 5, rolls 3 : misses
Medium Pulse Laser at King Crab KGC-010 (Koniving); needs 3, rolls 8 : - Direct Blow - hits LA
King Crab KGC-010 (Koniving) takes 8 damage to LA.
26 Armor remaining.
Medium Pulse Laser at King Crab KGC-010 (Koniving); needs 3, rolls 8 : - Direct Blow - hits CT
King Crab KGC-010 (Koniving) takes 8 damage to CT.
38 Armor remaining.
Ultra AC/5 at King Crab KGC-010 (Koniving); needs 5, rolls 7 :
King Crab KGC-010 (Koniving) takes 5 damage to RA.
29 Armor remaining.
fires a second burst in ultra mode.
Ultra AC/5 at King Crab KGC-010 (Koniving); needs 5, rolls 7 :
King Crab KGC-010 (Koniving) takes 5 damage to LL.
36 Armor remaining.
ER Large Laser at King Crab KGC-010 (Koniving); needs 5, rolls 2 : misses
ER Large Laser at King Crab KGC-010 (Koniving); needs 5, rolls 3 : misses
Medium Pulse Laser at King Crab KGC-010 (Koniving); needs 3, rolls 11 : - Direct Blow - hits LT
King Crab KGC-010 (Koniving) takes 9 damage to LT.
23 Armor remaining.
Medium Pulse Laser at King Crab KGC-010 (Koniving); needs 3, rolls 4 : hits CT
King Crab KGC-010 (Koniving) takes 7 damage to CT.
31 Armor remaining.
Ultra AC/5 at King Crab KGC-010 (Koniving); needs 5, rolls 8 : - Direct Blow -
King Crab KGC-010 (Koniving) takes 6 damage to RA.
23 Armor remaining.
fires a second burst in ultra mode.
Ultra AC/5 at King Crab KGC-010 (Koniving); needs 5, rolls 5 : - Glancing Blow -
King Crab KGC-010 (Koniving) takes 2 damage to LA.
24 Armor remaining.
LRM 10 at King Crab KGC-010 (Koniving); needs 5, rolls 8 : - Direct Blow - 6 missile(s) hit (w/ +2 bonus).
King Crab KGC-010 (Koniving) takes 5 damage to LA.
19 Armor remaining.
King Crab KGC-010 (Koniving) takes 1 damage to CT.
30 Armor remaining.
Daishi (Dire Wolf) Prime (Lordred) must make 1 piloting skill roll(s) (20+ damage).
The base target is 4 [4 (Base piloting skill)].
Roll #1, (4 (Base piloting skill) + 1 (20+ damage)); needs 5, rolls 7 : succeeds.
King Crab KGC-010 (Koniving) must make 1 piloting skill roll(s) (20+ damage).
The base target is 5 [5 (Base piloting skill)].
Roll #1, (5 (Base piloting skill) + 1 (20+ damage)); needs 6, rolls 9 : succeeds.
Heat Phase
------------------- Daishi (Dire Wolf) Prime (Lordred) gains 73 heat, sinks 44 heat and is now at 29 heat. (96.67%)
Daishi (Dire Wolf) Prime (Lordred) needs a 5+ to avoid shutdown, rolls 9 : avoids successfully!
Daishi (Dire Wolf) Prime (Lordred) needs a 8+ to avoid ammo explosion, rolls 5 : fails to avoid explosion. *** LRM 10 Ammo EXPLODES! 110 DAMAGE! ***
Daishi (Dire Wolf) Prime (Lordred) takes 110 damage to LT.
SECTION DESTROYED,
LIMB BLOWN OFF Left Arm blown off.
remaining 89 damage prevented by CASE.
Critical hit on LT. Roll is 6; no effect.
Pilot of Daishi (Dire Wolf) Prime (Lordred) "Bryan Otsuka" takes 2 damage.
Pilot of Daishi (Dire Wolf) Prime (Lordred) "Bryan Otsuka" needs a 3 to stay conscious. Rolls 6 : successful!
Pilot of Daishi (Dire Wolf) Prime (Lordred) "Bryan Otsuka" needs a 5 to stay conscious. Rolls 7 : successful!
Daishi (Dire Wolf) Prime needs a 6+ for coolant failure, rolls 8 : fails.
Daishi (Dire Wolf) Prime's coolant is now less effective. King Crab KGC-010 (Koniving) gains 25 heat, sinks 20 heat and is now at 5 heat.
King Crab KGC-010 needs a 10+ for coolant failure, rolls 5 : avoids successfully!
Control Rolls
-------------------
End Phase
Notice the coolant failure for overtaxing the potential of the heatsinks? King Crab had 20 (or 2/sec) cooling whether by 20 SHS or 10 DHS. It fired 25 heat within 10 seconds and had to check due to overtaxing the heatsinks. And that Dire Wolf? Heh... Well you read it for yourself.
For a random tidbit of fun...
Spoiler
This fight has what is a typical battletech fight that involves a good pilot with jumpjets. Notice how slow it falls when it does fall? It fits with BT as the Mobile Suits here are heavier though roughly the same size in BT [in MWO they're obscenely disproportionately huge]. It's disturbingly realistic in that regard.
However, the 'skirting across water' is not consistent with Battletech, unless you read the German BT books, in which case there's a jumpjet variant for forward propulsion without jump that has the same effect as a 'sprint' in Advanced Tactical Rules; but you obviously can't mix variants.
(Btw: That big cannon is very similar to BT's Heavy Rifle, a 190mm cannon that in a single shot does 9 damage. Except it's obsolete technology, as all Autocannons fire many shots to get their rated damage. As such against modern armor the Heavy Rifle deals 9-3 damage against BT's modern military-grade armor. The largest AC/20 is the Chemjet Gun, firing 4 185mm rounds at 5 damage each. [Notice something? 190mm = 6 damage each, 185mm = 5 damage each.] The AC/20's range is cut in half not because of a single heavier round but because of the recoil of firing them semi-rapidly).
Not bad considering it's Gundam. PatLabor's "Labors" are actually very consistent with a battlemech, though only 2 meters shorter and a LOT lighter. In comparison though, Clan battlemechs are similar but more advanced in weaponry.
However, Clan mechs always fight in smaller numbers. In fact they bid with each other to see who could accomplish the mission with the fewest amount of resources used. If Wolf says it can use only 5 mechs and 2 days to take over a planetary colony, and Falcon wants that city, the Falcons will counter with "We will use 3 battlemechs before the night falls."
(To mention it from a TT game some weeks ago: 3 Clan mediums of the 50 to 55 ton range took out an Inner Sphere force of 3 mediums of the 50 to 55 ton range, 2 lights, and 1 heavy with only two Clan losses in skirmish I did. Man I had all the bad luck. Their bap saw through my ambush, but I couldn't even detect them. They came in from behind and the side. It was just a disaster.)
ENS Puskin, on 04 August 2014 - 05:08 PM, said:
But if your target overheat and shutdown you lose lock and you are not able to shoot with streaks.
True, except PGI's design required the use of BAP with streaks (to counter the ECM; which is funny because ECM is supposed to counter the overpowered BAP -- because BAP is essentially a full area of effect radar in BT that can also pick up threats behind you).
BAP detects shutdown mechs.
Though funny fact: If they used the lore-rooted SRMs, streaks wouldn't be necessary. After all, Streaks are actually identical to SRMs, but Streaks will NOT fire without a lock. SRMs lock, but can fire without a lock. The only reason to bring a Streak launcher in BT is to save ammo as it will not fire unless it can hit. That's it.
What PGI has given us in place of lore-friendly SRMs are either MRMs with more damage and nerfed range or Dead-Fire missiles without the bonus damage (though we're starting to get that).
You play Blood Bowl?
I play on occasion at fumbbl.com. I could not get into the console version. Pretty, but slow.
Fummbl is just 16bit pixels and DEATH!!!! The players dont seem too complainy. Most were pretty secure in the knowledge that their pixels were meant to die. I accepted that natural law when i ran pro elves.
If you are ever down for a match, you can beat on my elves! If you can catch them(shouldnt be hard )
Well, not, I see we talked of different games xD I was speakign of the Bloodbowl PC game, Which does follow the real TT's rules, but just does most things automatically (like injury rols and stuff).
But if you play that what yous aid, well then possibly you need to goodgle for the latestused rulebook for bloodbowl. There should be one out there in th ent. afaik, The bloodbowl I speak of was based on the latest community adjusted bloodbowl rules. There is a sequal coming, Graphic looks great ^^
And yeah, I would let your elves run, no Dawi cares about scores in a match vs them, the only thing that matters how many of you died in that match. ^^
does the fumbl do stuff autmatically? or is that just a tabletop simulator where you have to roll all on yourown? Becase I have no practice in the TT game, and it would simply take ages to do evertyhing if you do not know the steps out of your head. Becaue shcih palyer has which abaility, and who cover swho with which, boni, Thats partially overkill for my brain to memorise this all at once xD
Oddly enough with a simple "movement" or "bob" to the reticules, Inner Sphere would be the pay2win side (as DoT weapons + bob = spread damage. FLD weapons + bob = override by skill-based timings).
In the various fights using third person (where the reticule bob exists), even standard heatsink mechs (sporting IS SRMs with their bonus damage and AC/20 with its pinpoint B.S.) have yet to lose against Clanners. Except the Kitfox. The Kitfox and Adder in these tests always seem to win (mainly because it's easy to fight outside of SRM and AC/20 range).
At any rate...
ELO has never worked for the pure group queues, and clearly still doesn't. You're pit against whatever happens to be there. At some point in recent history PGI made it so that all groups could only play in the Group Queue (which tries to match class for class, weight for weight, but often doesn't). The Solo queue has no group players at all, it's 100% pure random people who are randomly thrown in at certain ELO levels.
What's really bad about this is that 2 players thrown into a group queue are now up against vastly superior and more coordinated forces that are typically pure meta; showing us the most disgusting side of MWO. And what's that, you're a recruit? Pfft! Welcome to hell, population everyone in the group queue but for you it'll be especially bad.
This makes it very difficult to bring a new player in and try to train him or her anymore.
WHY CAN I NOT LIKE KONIVING'S POSTS MORE THAN ONCE!!!! Seriously though, this guy is Pure, Solid, GOLD. Wrapped in Platinum. If even half of Konivings suggestions were implemented, PGI would be rolling in money from all the grateful players.
I dont get it...
so the C-LBX/20 shoots a 20 x 1 point damage cluster
the C-UAC/20 shoots 5 x 4 point damage shot...
what does the C-AC/20 shoot? Not a single 20 damage shot?
The Clan AC/20 is actually a temporary placeholder for the Clan LBX/20. It's the "standard ammo" where the LBX/20 currently uses the "Cluster-shot" ammo.
The difference here is that a UAC/20 can 'double tap'.
The rest here is just fluff explained. You don't need to know it, but it might bring the world a bit more alive for ya.
Spoiler
Depending on the lore source you use (or the variant of Ultra-AutoCannon), you have one of a few explanations:
The UAC if burst fire (as in MWO though not precisely as MWO has implemented them) supposedly loads a magazine (cassette is the proper Battletech term) much like a standard autocannon (Inner Sphere; obviously not the case in MWO). However, the Ultra autocannon can hold two magazines at once and what it does is if you fire normally (hold the fire button) it will draw from the primary feed (cassette). If you double tap (rapidly tap), it will draw from the secondary feed (cassette).
Drawing from the secondary feed (tapping) has a risk of jamming. In Battletech this is a permanent jam that can only be fixed in the hangar or a mobile field base and sometimes the weapon can never be fixed. In MWO it's a 3 second punishment (though if you keep trying to fire while it's jammed and it could last as long as 6 seconds). The 'double tap' style of fire is supposed to share one barrel as it's used for high caliber ultra autocannons (so 120mm and up).
Now the other type of UAC from lore which does NOT exist in this game (even though the shot count and the multi-barrel array is treated this way) is that instead of magazines, the ammunition is fed directly through a belt. When this is the case, it's fully automatic fire (this is usually for low caliber UACs. The two examples I have are standard autocannons though, such as 80mm, which for an AC/5 is 20 shots to get 5 damage, or the Victor's lore-proper Pontiac 100 which is 100 shots to get 20 damage. Technically the Pontiac series is a burst fire). Regular automatic fire is considered "standard fire mode," and the 'double rate of fire' is called "Ultra Fire Mode" or simply "Ultra Mode" for short. In ultra mode it has a risk of jamming.
As for the BNC-3E. Strap 2 UAC5s and 2AC2s for a non-stop hail of bullets that will ruin everyone's day. I call it the Davionite for obvious reasons.
Yeah I've noticed an on-going trend of a preference to Autocannons for Davions.
Liao likes advanced but rare technology and having lots of mechs in a poor state of repair (during their hardest times just before the Clan invasion).
Steiners like spending money. That and assaults. The only things I've managed to figure out. Oh and their commanders are usually the dumbest people you've ever read about. (Summarized) "I think it's a trap." "Nonsense. We came here to do a job. Push forward." "Everyone is dead, sir." (TF2 Heavy) "How could this happen?"
Kuritas have the most unusual ideas; I wouldn't want to fight a Kurita on their turf.
Now Mariks... I don't know how they afford it, but their dedicated units have some of the most amazing hardware you can possibly find; and yet they almost never have anything like ECM. XL engines, double heatsinks, etc. are almost standard but when it comes to the software (where the Liaos thrive), the Mariks seem...incompetent. Great hardware, bad software. Maybe it's a faction loaded with grease monkeys but no geeks? Though I've only read one book with them in it and seen their units.
And well Rasalhague just becomes Ghost Bear way too fast to pick up anything other than "Space Vikings."
I'll have to try that. I know this joke build made a meta Atlas and a meta Muromets back off . Skip to 3:12.
Then this design, a little too hot without canon heat values on short range weapons, is an interesting little design.
I dont get it...
so the C-LBX/20 shoots a 20 x 1 point damage cluster
the C-UAC/20 shoots 5 x 4 point damage shot...
what does the C-AC/20 shoot? Not a single 20 damage shot?
The Clan AC20 fires 5x4 damage shots as well. The difference is that it costs a slot more, 1 less heat, and doesn't have ultra fire mode, so it doesn't jam.
Koniving, on 05 August 2014 - 04:47 AM, said:
Yeah I've noticed an on-going trend of a preference to Autocannons for Davions.
Liao likes advanced but rare technology and having lots of mechs in a poor state of repair (during their hardest times just before the Clan invasion).
Steiners like spending money. That and assaults. The only things I've managed to figure out. Oh and their commanders are usually the dumbest people you've ever read about. (Summarized) "I think it's a trap." "Nonsense. We came here to do a job. Push forward." "Everyone is dead, sir." (TF2 Heavy) "How could this happen?"
Kuritas have the most unusual ideas; I wouldn't want to fight a Kurita on their turf.
Now Mariks... I don't know how they afford it, but their dedicated units have some of the most amazing hardware you can possibly find; and yet they almost never have anything like ECM. XL engines, double heatsinks, etc. are almost standard but when it comes to the software (where the Liaos thrive), the Mariks seem...incompetent. Great hardware, bad software. Maybe it's a faction loaded with grease monkeys but no geeks? Though I've only read one book with them in it and seen their units.
And well Rasalhague just becomes Ghost Bear way too fast to pick up anything other than "Space Vikings."
I'll have to try that. I know this joke build made a meta Atlas and a meta Muromets back off . Skip to 3:12.
Then this design, a little too hot without canon heat values on short range weapons, is an interesting little design.
Davion has always had a ... thing, for ACs. Just read the opening paragraph of the Hammerhands on Sarna. They love the sound of those guns.
The rest, you're spot on. As for Mariks, it's pretty much as you guessed, they have lots of grease monkeys, and they have no fear of mashing things together, and see what comes out on the other side. Their software problems are part of the reason why they still rely heavily on non-mech units.
Kurita can get really weird with the bushido code, which they don't always follow (When Tetsuhara didn't kill Jaime Wolf following the Bushido code, since Wolf's archer was destroyed and over-heated, he was punished.). Their love affair with the Jenner is pretty similar to Davion with ACs.
Though I gotta say, if we could use Chargers precisely as written, I'd switch over to Kurita just to play them.
Remember dragon meta? Lol... I love kurita, I love kurita mechs, I love kurita strategy when using said mechs... I just hate when they don't pay me for my merc contracts... And then try to take my mechs for a job well done...
Clan SSRMs
have crazy cycle times, and they deal less damage per missile than IS SSRMs. Same thing with regular SRMs. They weigh a bit less, but deal less damage, while generating the same heat...
Clan ballistics are by and large all inferior to IS ballistics, except for the Gauss (I personally would rather it has either a longer charge up time, shorter charge retention time, or both)...
You're right about the SRMs but Clan SSRMs do the same damage as the Inner Sphere version: 2 per missile. They also have a 360m range instead of 270m.
The burst mechanic on the UAC10 and UAC20 is somewhat offset by the range boost and double-tap ability compared to the I.S. AC10 and AC20. You do have to stare down the target a bit longer and deal with damage spread but that's still a lot of hurt you can deliver. 5s are definitely not as good as the I.S. version. 2s are probably debatable...who uses I.S. 2s, anyway?
You're right about the SRMs but Clan SSRMs do the same damage as the Inner Sphere version: 2 per missile. They also have a 360m range instead of 270m.
The burst mechanic on the UAC10 and UAC20 is somewhat offset by the range boost and double-tap ability compared to the I.S. AC10 and AC20. You do have to stare down the target a bit longer and deal with damage spread but that's still a lot of hurt you can deliver. 5s are definitely not as good as the I.S. version. 2s are probably debatable...who uses I.S. 2s, anyway?
5AC2 jagers, and several banshee builds. They are still annoying to run into. They can plink you at range, and the shake is a nightmare.
As for SSMRs, I stand corrected, I forgot to mention the range as well.
The clan ACs have close enough performance to IS ACs on paper, the problem is that the difference between DoT and PP FLD is just staggering enough that I would always want to use IS ACs. Even though clans have UAC20s.
Aleksandr Sergeyevich Kerensky, on 05 August 2014 - 07:01 AM, said:
Remember dragon meta? Lol...
Per variant armor limits that use stock as a source would create a Dragon meta.
Compare Dragon stock armors to Victor stock armors. Victors would probably get dropped by armor-lovers.
Now add 96 to each one and try to make a build with 3 tons to spare without going above 96 points more than the stock armor. You'd be surprised what you'd make work. After you do that, tell me some of the build ideas you came up with, I'm quite curious.
And there's a specific thing about Kurita that taints their precious Jenners. The Kentares Massacre. That'll make you feel better when you get shafted for your pay.
Mizeur, on 05 August 2014 - 07:04 AM, said:
You're right about the SRMs but Clan SSRMs do the same damage as the Inner Sphere version: 2 per missile. They also have a 360m range instead of 270m.
I was thinking the same thing. IS Streaks did have bonus damage for an obscenely long time. In truth all SRMs are supposed to do 2 per missile, except dead-fire (no homing) SRMs which are supposed to do 3 per missile. All SRMs have homing, and Streaks are identical but the system itself would calculate whether or not a hit would occur ahead of time and prevent the missile from firing if the hit was not guaranteed. Ammo conservation (which is why Clan streaks had extended range; that chance to hit had more range assurances as Clan streaks simply had better accuracy).
SRMs "lack sophisticated guidance systems," but they're not dead-fire as MWO depicts them. They are in fact guided; it just varies with each book how they are guided.
----------
For this, Clan quirks come in. Lets take a Timber Wolf for example (but there are ones on the others), if you slap on a side torso with more missile hardpoints you will have a reloading speed delay. Slap them both on and it gets harsher.
That 7.5 second reload on a Streak 6? It can go up to 8.25 seconds to reload just 1 launcher.
So while a Clan Streak 6 might do 24 damage in 7.5 to 8.25 seconds (2 firings)...
The Inner Sphere SRM-6 would do 38.7 damage in 8 seconds (3 firings).
Meanwhile the Clan SRM-6 does 36 damage in 8 to 8.8 seconds (3 firings).
So in the end, IS SRM-6 rules. Also no Clan mech is fast enough to warrant the need for streaks; it's just used as an anti-light in this game anyway.
Mizeur, on 05 August 2014 - 07:04 AM, said:
The burst mechanic on the UAC10 and UAC20 is somewhat offset by the range boost and double-tap ability compared to the I.S. AC10 and AC20. You do have to stare down the target a bit longer and deal with damage spread but that's still a lot of hurt you can deliver. 5s are definitely not as good as the I.S. version. 2s are probably debatable...who uses I.S. 2s, anyway?
The range boost on UACs is lore-intended. Btw don't forget in the upcoming years Inner Sphere also gets UACs which also have range boosts. The burst fire mechanic is supposed to be on all ACs in lore; their range is actually supposed to be because that's the farthest you could possibly get all shots on target (as there's supposed to be recoil).
The Clan UAC/20 or Clan AC/20 fires 5 rounds at 4 damage each, which is exactly how the Hunchback's Tomodzuru Autocannon Mount Type 20 is written to work in the books.
While we'll never see lore-based design, it is possible that all ACs will have a burst mechanic as it's been requested for a long time to help deal with the PPC + AC meta.
What balanced them out in the jamming possibility which on tabletop is permanent even if rare.
In MWO at any point during a burst fire a jam could occur. Only fired 2 out of 5 shots and 8 out of 20 damage? Tough ****, you jammed. Not to mention the rediculous ghost heats slapped on to ALL Clan ACs (though they need to be consistent with all ACs).
---------
No matter how it gets spun, a Clan AC/20 doing 4 damage per shot versus an Inner Sphere AC/20 doing 20 damage in a single shot, the Clan version is inferior.
IS AC/20: 0 seconds 20 damage, 4 seconds 20 damage, 8 seconds 20 damage, 12 seconds 20 damage, 16 seconds 20 damage. In 16 seconds: 100 damage for 1 IS AC/20.
Clan AC/20: 0.5 seconds 20 damage, 5 seconds 20 damage, 9 seconds 20 damage, 13.5 20 damage, 18 seconds 20 damage. In 18 seconds 100 damage for 1 Clan AC/20 or UAC/20 set to not have a jam risk.
(This does make me wish for tabletop's balance though. AC/20 is 20 damage in 10 seconds. UAC/20 is 40 damage max in 10 seconds. For example I tried the MWO meta in BT. NONE of them work. None of it at all. In fact they were far more worthless than any loadout I've ever used).
Lily from animove, on 04 August 2014 - 11:51 PM, said:
Well, not, I see we talked of different games xD I was speakign of the Bloodbowl PC game, Which does follow the real TT's rules, but just does most things automatically (like injury rols and stuff).
But if you play that what yous aid, well then possibly you need to goodgle for the latestused rulebook for bloodbowl. There should be one out there in th ent. afaik, The bloodbowl I speak of was based on the latest community adjusted bloodbowl rules. There is a sequal coming, Graphic looks great ^^
And yeah, I would let your elves run, no Dawi cares about scores in a match vs them, the only thing that matters how many of you died in that match. ^^
does the fumbl do stuff autmatically? or is that just a tabletop simulator where you have to roll all on yourown? Becase I have no practice in the TT game, and it would simply take ages to do evertyhing if you do not know the steps out of your head. Becaue shcih palyer has which abaility, and who cover swho with which, boni, Thats partially overkill for my brain to memorise this all at once xD
Fumbbl is a direct port using the games workshop rules. Plus they have Stunty Leeg, which is non-canon where most of your players have severe negetraits.
Ive heard that the top players in the worlds are at fummbl, most dont like the cyanide version.
Its graphics are simple(no animation, more like a java boardgame) but its free to play and plays faster and smoother.
There is no story mode either. Make a team and MM will get you some people to offer a game to.
Ranked play is described as above and tracks your 'elo'.
League is very robust and customizable and doesnt track your 'elo'.
Black Box is random opponent within certain 'elo' and is known to be very death-oriented. The meta there is half the team with claw-mighty blow-pile on.
Stunty is like i said above and i think it tracks a separate 'elo'. Goblins, halflings, etc with busted super powers and busted negatraits. Extreme risk/reward. Extreme hilarity. Will the troll eat or throw the goblin? Will said goblin survive the landing? Will the gnome bombadier drop his grenade on himself?
Per variant armor limits that use stock as a source would create a Dragon meta.
Compare Dragon stock armors to Victor stock armors. Victors would probably get dropped by armor-lovers.
What balanced them out in the jamming possibility which on tabletop is permanent even if rare.
In MWO at any point during a burst fire a jam could occur. Only fired 2 out of 5 shots and 8 out of 20 damage? Tough ****, you jammed. Not to mention the rediculous ghost heats slapped on to ALL Clan ACs (though they need to be consistent with all ACs).
I agree with the armor idea, some chassis were designed not to run full armor.
So non-ultra clan ACs jam? I was wondering why sometimes not all the shots come out. I thought it was a glitch.
5
ENS Puskin, on 04 August 2014 - 05:51 PM, said:
Heh, yeah + both can have some back up lasers.
)
