126 replies to this topic

[Denolven]

IraqiWalker, on 29 July 2014 - 06:17 PM, said:

Base caps ARE still there.

Sure, and technically there are draws. I just can't remember when it happened last time. Maybe I'm just in the noob ELO, but where I play, matches are won by killing. That used to be different but that's another topic.

Quote

I might be a radical case, but I have had no problems taking down T-Wolves in my Orion. Actually, now that I think about it, I've had no problems taking down any clan mech in my Orion (ON1-K AC20, 2xSRM4, 4ML, STD300).

Maybe you're just a really good fighter

If you had neither the reflexes nor the aiming to outplay the Clan mechs burst, you'd probably see why we common folks struggle. The time scope is about a second. I need like 3 seconds to aim for a mech if I want to shoot more accurate than "roughly the right direction". And that's if we both stand still. People watching me think I aim with the keyboard. And the scary part is that I'm an above average player.
When fighting another IS mech at least I'm fighting someone who uses the same building rules. Clan mechs on the other hand are superior in everything except that one second of burst. But that's pretty much irrelevant for everyone who is not a pro, because you need alot of skill to actually use their burst to your advantage.

Not sure how healthy it is for the game to have balance at the top 10% ELO, but 80% Clan mechs below that ELO range. Once the C-Bill Clan heavies/assaults hit the market, we'll see I guess.

Edited by Denolven, 29 July 2014 - 07:14 PM.

[IraqiWalker]

Denolven, on 29 July 2014 - 07:02 PM, said:

Sure, and technically there are draws. I just can't remember when it happened last time. Maybe I'm just in the noob ELO, but where I play, matches are won by killing. That used to be different but that's another topic.

Maybe you're just a really good fighter

If you had neither the reflexes nor the aiming to outplay the Clan mechs burst, you'd probably see why we common folks struggle. The time scope is about a second. I need like 3 seconds to aim for a mech if I want to shoot more accurate than "roughly the right direction". And that's if we both stand still. People watching me think I aim with the keyboard. And the scary part is that I'm an above average player.
When fighting another IS mech at least I'm fighting someone who uses the same building rules. Clan mechs on the other hand are superior in everything except that one second of burst. But that's pretty much irrelevant for everyone who is not a pro.

Again, I understand where you're coming from, and I think we're both now basically agreeing on most things. If you face down a clan mech, they will win. A stare-down contest is what they excel at. For different levels of play different mechs and tactics win the game. I will concede that, LRMs are capable of stomping matches unilaterally in lower elo drops, but in very high elo, you never see them. So I can see your point with the clans.

Other factors can help exacerbate the problem, like low FPS (by low I mean around 9, which is what I had when I started the game, and things seemed to teleport around me), high mouse sensitivity, slow reaction time (one of my unit-mates has arthritis, can't expect him to aim as fast some of the others), cockpit shake from ballistics and missiles (oh how I hate it) ... etc.

As for base caps. I think it has to do with turrets being there. Most people don't realize how weak turrets are, and have given up on capping the base (the rewards are also very low compared to fighting and dying). However, since you like running mediums, ask a couple mechs to help you cap. Rush the base while the main formation is keeping the enemy busy (make sure they know ahead of time that a cap feint is your plan). Cut through the enemy base as fast as possible. Start capping and then start blasting the turrets.

I recommend bringing one or two cap accels with you, as that would ensure maximum panic with the enemy team.

[Asmudius Heng]

Not sure if anyone mentioned this but as a high pinger form Australia it is relevant.

the HSR system that reduced lag shooting extremely effective. It cuts both ways though, before in a light I know I was really hard to hit, now enemies can tag me much easier. However, my shots land where I want them most of the time too.

Not sure if the HSR was as good when you first started but that might be a contributing reason now that SRMs also work properly.

Clan mechs are dangerous but the nature of their weaponry means it is hard to get that sort of stopping power on a mech so it might be that you need to watch you positioning bit more.

If you play in a group also note you will be in the group queue where you will face much more organised teams who can concentrate fire more easily.

Hope that adds to the help here.

[Noth]

Denolven, on 29 July 2014 - 06:02 PM, said:

That's interesting, because I'm a medium pilot and good enough to have a >1 W/L ratio with my Trebuchets (pre-Clan, not sure what it is post-clan). And I tell you I can't take on Clan mediums, they'll rip me apart. And should I ever dare to stay in sight of that heavy/assault for more than half a second, a lost limb is the smallest price I pay. Did you ever try to circle a heavy/assault mech whose pilot knows what he's doing, in a 1v1 with a medium mech?
The only way a medium mech kills a heavy/assault is either by making it 2-3 versus 1, or by having the opponent damaged in the first place (assuming both have equal skill). That's a simple rule, no matter if IS or Clan. And that's perfectly fine, because they are supposed to. Clan mechs just kill you even faster, because they have 50% more firepower.

That wouldn't be a problem if

• there was a way to win without killing, and/or
  
• the limiting factor was actually fighting value instead of player count

I don't have a problem with Clan mechs having alot more firepower. I have a problem with the game design, because it forces us to fight, at a disadvantage. There's a reason why people always go for the big mechs, preferably the ones with the most Dakka. It's not because they look nice.

Yes people go for the big mechs. They are inherently easier to play. If you look at a lot of the people with high KDR you'd see that quite a few of them pilot lights. IS and Clan mechs both have their advantages and disadvantages. Some not outwardly apparent to someone who isn't playing them, or simply hasn't learned them yet.

[Training Instructor]

Clan mechs aren't OP. [Redacted]

Edited by John Wolf, 31 July 2014 - 05:45 PM.
Unconstructive

[IraqiWalker]

Okay. Joking/trolling/derailment aside. Let's get this back into line with what the OP wants. It's his thread. So no clan discussion here. If you guys want to start one, open up a thread in General Discussion, and link to the others.

[Murcheson]

I am a relative noob - I've been playing for two months, but consistently.

I run a mix of assault/heavy clan and IS mechs (I don't have a doctrinal thing about clan and IS, I just want something that works well for me and is fun to pilot) - and frankly I don't see your basis for your pay2play rant.

There are advantages to the clan mechs for sure, but there are also significant advantages for the IS mechs, you might take some time to learn and realize them. The key, as it is in life, is to figure out what works for you and to adopt and/or adapt.

Also MWO is interesting in that it is so dynamic, just in the last two months I noticed some subtle and not so subtle changes with the game, coinciding with each new patch. I suggest that your low scores have more to do with you not being a more frequent player. You are in essence experiencing the game for the first time each time you play. As for your previous average scores versus current scores, I think we would need a larger sample size. E.g., my first score as a noob was 400 something - then I got smoked in the next ten matches. But what I can say, is that my average score has improved over time, as my play style has evolved.

My suggestion to you is to play more frequently. MWO is not a simple game - there are myriad levels of complexity just within the game construct, and this doesn't factor in the human element (styles and tactics). In any case, I don't think you can blame your poor score to a "pay2play" conspiracy.

[Nick Makiaveli]

Zoddom, on 28 July 2014 - 03:48 PM, said:

so wheres the point in playing against a 12 player clan mech team with my K2 then?
its ridiculous to get taken down in literally 2 seconds at whatever distance by whatever clan-op-weapon.
they are jsut seriously overpowered, there is absolutely no use in using innersphere mechs right now.

There's your problem. You aren't playing as a team member,you are wanting to run off by yourself.

[JigglyMoobs]

Guys, if you read the last couple of pages of the thread, Zoddom has already gotten the message and is now looking for tips on how to play better. No need to beat him up about his initial post.

[JigglyMoobs]

Denolven, on 29 July 2014 - 07:02 PM, said:

Sure, and technically there are draws. I just can't remember when it happened last time. Maybe I'm just in the noob ELO, but where I play, matches are won by killing. That used to be different but that's another topic.

Maybe you're just a really good fighter

If you had neither the reflexes nor the aiming to outplay the Clan mechs burst, you'd probably see why we common folks struggle. The time scope is about a second. I need like 3 seconds to aim for a mech if I want to shoot more accurate than "roughly the right direction". And that's if we both stand still. People watching me think I aim with the keyboard. And the scary part is that I'm an above average player.
When fighting another IS mech at least I'm fighting someone who uses the same building rules. Clan mechs on the other hand are superior in everything except that one second of burst. But that's pretty much irrelevant for everyone who is not a pro, because you need alot of skill to actually use their burst to your advantage.

Not sure how healthy it is for the game to have balance at the top 10% ELO, but 80% Clan mechs below that ELO range. Once the C-Bill Clan heavies/assaults hit the market, we'll see I guess.

If you don't have the aim to be a frontline hero, you can always play a supporting role as a medium or light. The key is to KEEP MOVING and SHOOT THE EASY TARGETS.

Keep moving is self explanatory.
Shooting the easy targets means mainly shooting at people who are busy engaging your teammates. Since their attention isn't on you, you are free to take your time making good shots on them.

These tactics tend to work best if you act as a body guard for a larger mech like a Direwhale or Warhawk.

For example, in this game:

http://www.twitch.tv...754?t=02h57m30s

I'm using a TRIAL Black Jack against good people (I'm the little medium mech you see out of the corner of JagerXII's cockpit once in a while). I consider myself a fairly good pilot and I was also rolling with a VERY good team but the other team had good pilots who were in possession of some serious hardware. Had they focused on me I would have been dead in seconds. By acting in a discrete supporting role to the large mechs on my team, I was able to put in a lot of damage and survive till the end.

If it's not already apparent, these types of tactics work best in organized games, which, I think, are much more fun than running in the solo queue. So don't be shy about grouping up. Try to group with better people to learn their tactics. Over time, you will get better. This is not some super aim depending game like Quake or Counterstrike. As long as you learn the tactics, it won't take you 10 years to get as good as the competitive players in the game.

[Denolven]

JigglyMoobs, on 31 July 2014 - 05:25 PM, said:

If you don't have the aim to be a frontline hero, you can always play a supporting role as a medium or light. The key is to KEEP MOVING and SHOOT THE EASY TARGETS.

There are no easy targets. MWO is the only MMO that gives me 15-20 fps, 25 if nothing is happening on the screen and am not on Frozen City. It was twice as much before the new UI came, which was playable. In fact, I still have my Jenner and Spider, two of my first three mechs (sold the Dragon). But being in a slide show while playing a shooter isn't exactly fun.

I'm pretty good with movement and tactics, don't worry. Good enough to compensate for the abysmal aiming and reflexes. I'm fine, or rather would be if there weren't a million other frustrating things that keep me away. Like the slide show mentioned above, or the fact that the game still ruins my weapon groups randomly all the time. I have more trouble fighting the game than fighting ingame opponents. And lately I have little to no capacity left for actual ingame stuff.

Still, I know how new/casual players feel. And I want them to know that it's not (completely) their fault. It's how the game has been designed. It's one of those games where I as a designer have troubles finding something that is not messed up (there is some of that once you enter the 3D mode of MWO). And I still keep holding onto it, because I know what it could be like. I just stopped paying, and will continue to do so until I have the feeling that this thing deserves more money.
Anyway, that's another topic.

[DrSlamastika]

Zoddom, on 28 July 2014 - 03:28 PM, said:

What the **** is wrong? This game is now entirely pay2win and the fun factor is 0 for me.

For me, right now its either remove those OP pay2win mechs, or I quit this game forever.

Feel free to quit, good bye . . . .

[mad kat]

Can someone clarify what they've done with the ELO and matchmaker change as my games in the last month or so have been rapidly going bad.

Previously i had really good games and i don't mean to come accross as bragging but i thought i did quite well on our team. Now it just seems like our team has brought paper for armour and get hammered in half the time of old and in the majority of matches too.

PGI are being typically cryptic and quiet so i'd like to find out (as usual) from a community member what they've broken.

[Satan n stuff]

IraqiWalker, on 29 July 2014 - 04:14 PM, said:

LOL, pretty much. One alpha, and you're dead.

I'm personally running it with 6 MLs, and 6SLs. a set in each arm, my right has the shorter range (jab), and my left has the longer range (punch). It's a one-two boxer.

That alpha is actually survivable as long as you're not standing in lava at the time, and there aren't any hostiles around. Still a bad idea in most cases but if you override and alpha you might be able to win a fight you otherwise wouldn't have.

[JigglyMoobs]

Denolven, on 01 August 2014 - 04:29 AM, said:

There are no easy targets. MWO is the only MMO that gives me 15-20 fps, 25 if nothing is happening on the screen and am not on Frozen City. It was twice as much before the new UI came, which was playable. In fact, I still have my Jenner and Spider, two of my first three mechs (sold the Dragon). But being in a slide show while playing a shooter isn't exactly fun.

I'm pretty good with movement and tactics, don't worry. Good enough to compensate for the abysmal aiming and reflexes. I'm fine, or rather would be if there weren't a million other frustrating things that keep me away. Like the slide show mentioned above, or the fact that the game still ruins my weapon groups randomly all the time. I have more trouble fighting the game than fighting ingame opponents. And lately I have little to no capacity left for actual ingame stuff.

Still, I know how new/casual players feel. And I want them to know that it's not (completely) their fault. It's how the game has been designed. It's one of those games where I as a designer have troubles finding something that is not messed up (there is some of that once you enter the 3D mode of MWO). And I still keep holding onto it, because I know what it could be like. I just stopped paying, and will continue to do so until I have the feeling that this thing deserves more money.
Anyway, that's another topic.

What are your system/video card/video settings?

mad kat, on 01 August 2014 - 05:31 AM, said:

Can someone clarify what they've done with the ELO and matchmaker change as my games in the last month or so have been rapidly going bad.

Previously i had really good games and i don't mean to come accross as bragging but i thought i did quite well on our team. Now it just seems like our team has brought paper for armour and get hammered in half the time of old and in the majority of matches too.

PGI are being typically cryptic and quiet so i'd like to find out (as usual) from a community member what they've broken.

The queues have been split into solo and group queues. On the solo queue you have a higher number of low skilled players. On the group queue you have a higher concentration of good teams.

So, if you are in good teams, your life has gotten better. If you are playing by yourself and you want to win, your life has generally gotten harder.

[Keira RAVEN McKenna]

I'm afraid the real problem the OP is having is quite plain and simple.
He or she simply is no longer a good enough player compared to everyone else, he or she hasn't learnt tactics and can't adapt.

The titles VICTIM and CANNON FODDER apply here I think.

Try selling the Jenner and getting a twin ER LL ECM 152kph Raven 3L... run, look, lock, shoot, run, look, lock, shoot... Works real well! 3 Alphas then run each time. Use Adv Zoom Module to Cockpit shoot them. Takes 2 Alphas.
Paint it MATT BLACK (Camo black is the colour I think), not the shiny glossy colours, and you'll find the enemy walk right past you alot!

Edited by Keira_NZ, 01 August 2014 - 04:10 PM.

[InspectorG]

PGI doesnt exactly make it clear that this game has a very steep learning curve.

No official tutorials.

No live practice mode.

The only other game this difficult for newbs is Blood Bowl(for me at least). My god Blood Bowl's resident RNG god, Nuffle, loves brutalizing newbs with beginner luck only to strip it away once you learn the right things to do. Then the everlasting string of bad rolls comes in. Specially for Dark Elf players.

Just hang in there, take your whoopins, get better, then, when you get to 'average', you get to give whoopins to the incoming newbs. Circle of Life.

[IraqiWalker]

mad kat, on 01 August 2014 - 05:31 AM, said:

Can someone clarify what they've done with the ELO and matchmaker change as my games in the last month or so have been rapidly going bad.

Previously i had really good games and i don't mean to come accross as bragging but i thought i did quite well on our team. Now it just seems like our team has brought paper for armour and get hammered in half the time of old and in the majority of matches too.

PGI are being typically cryptic and quiet so i'd like to find out (as usual) from a community member what they've broken.

The MM and ELO are fine. You just jumped up a tier. Congratulations, now you're being matched with players slightly worse than you, and definitely better you. Just pray that it's an even spread across both teams.

Keira_NZ, on 01 August 2014 - 04:03 PM, said:

I'm afraid the real problem the OP is having is quite plain and simple.
He or she simply is no longer a good enough player compared to everyone else, he or she hasn't learnt tactics and can't adapt.

The titles VICTIM and CANNON FODDER apply here I think.

Try selling the Jenner and getting a twin ER LL ECM 152kph Raven 3L... run, look, lock, shoot, run, look, lock, shoot... Works real well! 3 Alphas then run each time. Use Adv Zoom Module to Cockpit shoot them. Takes 2 Alphas.
Paint it MATT BLACK (Camo black is the colour I think), not the shiny glossy colours, and you'll find the enemy walk right past you alot!

uhhhhh . Zoddom has already stated that he's getting on board with the game. If people are going to bash the OP, they should probably read the rest of the thread to see the OP's responses.

[Keira RAVEN McKenna]

can't, have a migraine thanks to being a woman and suffering THAT 28day curse.

Besides, I wasn't a total b#tch, I did add a constructive suggestion with Raven 3L play.

Edited by Keira_NZ, 01 August 2014 - 07:35 PM.

[IraqiWalker]

Keira_NZ, on 01 August 2014 - 07:33 PM, said:

can't, have a migraine thanks to being a woman and suffering THAT 28day curse.

Besides, I wasn't a total b#tch, I did add a constructive suggestion with Raven 3L play.

In that case, it's understandable.