28 replies to this topic

[Raide Six]

LOADED, on 29 July 2014 - 02:24 AM, said:

About P2W. I'm not sure how anyone could deny the fact that Clanmechs are P2W. They play different, yes. but they do outperform their IS counterparts. As long as you have to pay to play them, it is a less aggressive form of P2W.

Buying Clanmechs gives a slightly edge above the competition, not an insta win button. nothing more, nothing less.
But hey, ppl are paying for them, so why do we actually mind?
Same for the DS, Ember, the Ilya, the Arrow and so on.
We don't mind Adv. Arti and Airstrikes (which are pure pay to win) as well.

The most evenhanded, fairminded post I have seen on this topic so far. though I am still not convinced - other than Timberwolves/Madcats, that Clan mechs are P2W.

*EDIT Disclosure: I have the Nova/Blackhawk clan pack + Stormcrow/Ryoken ala carte - but I still like playing my Raven-3L & Orion-Protector the most.

Edited by SeccaBravo9, 29 July 2014 - 02:58 AM.

[B L O O D W I T C H]

El Bandito, on 29 July 2014 - 02:26 AM, said:

And here is a problem. You would welcome a clearly unbalancing factor in a MP only game which will limit selection and play style--both important for a long lasting F2P game?

Yes, i do welcome a clearly unbalanced factor. But there's a very important difference between "broken imbalanced" and intentionally "imbalanced for a reason".
A balanced game will only lead to stagnation, a linear balancing will lead to a point, where you will only see teams of Dragon Slayers, Embers, Cataphract and Shadowhawks. We have seen that.
A totally balanced game on the otherhand, would make us play stock locusts. because there would not be a reason to change your loadout, tactics or anything else. Everything would literally lead to the same result. Hence, both stages of stagnation.

Imbalancing, on the other hand, will lead to a meta game.
The Madcat currently is seen as OP, hence a lot of ppl playing Madcats. Madcat is Meta.
The very best thing now, (if the degree of imbalancing is right ofc) will be that other ppl will come up with a different Meta.
The "Counter the OP Madcat Meta".
After that, hopefully other ppl will come up with to counter the "counter the OP Madcat meta".

For this very reason, a slightly imbalance will not create a playstyle or selection limitation. It is actually needed to create a circle of different meta games, and, if done right, will lead to a long lasting (and enjoyable) (f2p) game.

*edited, wrote a little more to get my point across.

Edited by LOADED, 29 July 2014 - 03:32 AM.

[Raide Six]

LOADED, on 29 July 2014 - 03:23 AM, said:

The Madcat currently is seen as OP, hence a lot of ppl paying Madcat. Madcat is Meta.
The very best thing now, (if the degree of imbalancing is right ofc) will be that other ppl will come up with a different Meta.
The "Counter the OP Madcat Meta".
After that, hopefully other ppl will come up with to counter the "counter the OP Madcat meta".

I hate Madcats/Timberwolves - I will go out of my way - even to the point of suicide - to kill a madcat. Especially in my Stormcrow or Orion Protector.

[B L O O D W I T C H]

SeccaBravo9, on 29 July 2014 - 03:33 AM, said:

I will go out of my way - even to the point of suicide - to kill a madcat.

So clanesque.. hehe.
But hey. if you found out how to kill them efficently, you may figure out what 'mech and chassi will get "the job" done best. That's the "counter the Madcat meta" i was talking about. Guess the "mini atlas" orion works rather well, but time will tell what ppl will bring up.

As for me, i'm mostly piloting lights, therefore i'm trying to evade Madcats like the pest. If they're build right (with focus on the quirks rather then an "need more lazers" - attitute, they are just to nimble for my taste.
But if i'm in my trip srm6, twin lbx10 d-dc, well, that's a different story.

[El Bandito]

LOADED, on 29 July 2014 - 03:23 AM, said:

Yes, i do welcome a clearly unbalanced factor. But there's a very important difference between "broken imbalanced" and intentionally "imbalanced for a reason". A balanced game will only lead to stagnation, a linear balancing will lead to a point, where you will only see teams of Dragon Slayers, Embers, Cataphract and Shadowhawks. We have seen that. A totally balanced game on the otherhand, would make us play stock locusts. because there would not be a reason to change your loadout, tactics or anything else. Everything would literally lead to the same result. Hence, both stages of stagnation. Imbalancing, on the other hand, will lead to a meta game. The Madcat currently is seen as OP, hence a lot of ppl playing Madcats. Madcat is Meta. The very best thing now, (if the degree of imbalancing is right ofc) will be that other ppl will come up with a different Meta. The "Counter the OP Madcat Meta". After that, hopefully other ppl will come up with to counter the "counter the OP Madcat meta". For this very reason, a slightly imbalance will not create a playstyle or selection limitation. It is actually needed to create a circle of different meta games, and, if done right, will lead to a long lasting (and enjoyable) (f2p) game. *edited, wrote a little more to get my point across.

There is no countering the Timberwolf at this point in the game. All T-Wolf did was to enforce the superiority of the poptart meta.

[LordKnightFandragon]

STRIKER OP NERF STRIKER!!!

oh wait, wrong game...

[Raide Six]

LOADED, on 29 July 2014 - 03:51 AM, said:

Guess the "mini atlas" orion works rather well, but time will tell what ppl will bring up.

Funny you should say that - My Orion-P has taken on an Atlas 1v1 and won many 'a times....don't underestimate an Orion-P or Orion-K - thay can & will kill you....

Edited by SeccaBravo9, 29 July 2014 - 04:03 AM.

[B L O O D W I T C H]

SeccaBravo9, on 29 July 2014 - 04:03 AM, said:

Funny you should say that - My Orion-P has taken on an Atlas 1v1 and won many 'a times....don't underestimate an Orion-P or Orion-K - thay can & will kill you....

No doubt. But i actually meant the loadout (ac20/srm/mlas) of an brawler atlas and the very similar hardpoints. which are working rather well on the more nimble orion.

[Shae Starfyre]

Isn't everything in MWO online P2W when perspective is shifted?

To a new player who bought his first "insert Mech" without enough funds to tweak or know how to maximize it, let alone master it; there is someone else out there in the same Mech who had the CBills, or the MC to enhance it, fully mastered, such that he beats that newer player in his new shiney (to him).

Is the answer to make any mech free (even cBill wise) fully mastered, so that only skill stands between us? Then the argument is time (because so and so had more time in the game, he should, as more time spent in the game suffer negative quirks so that new players with the P2W perspective feels differently)?

I see the Clans in the same light; right now, people who do not pay for them at this time are the new players experiencing seasoned players with maximized/experimenting/just mastering said mechs.

The perspective of the "new Player" in his tricked out IS mech used to playing against other IS mechs, sees these Clan mechs as a P2W just like the new player sees any other mech he faces as P2W because they cannot yet afford what they encountered or have the knowledge to build/understand/experience it.

One day, he will be able to afford it (Clan will cost CBills); and in time, master it.

Once everything cost Cbills, and everyone has them mastered, then what? Is all this about shortening the time it takes to get into Clan Mechs because Stats are hurting for IS Mech pilots who have to play differently, learn new tactics, find weakness that they cannot yet know because they cannot feel the Clan Mech under them?

What a lot of energy spent on fruitless dispositions lacking the patience and will to persevere.

Edited by Aphoticus, 29 July 2014 - 06:14 AM.