22 replies to this topic

[MeiSooHaityu]

With the talk of the Hunchback getting an internals boost for the hump and the Awesome getting a much needed boost to heat efficency (with energy weapons) and center torso durability, will the long obsoleted Catapult get a little help (especially missile variants)?

I still feel the Catapult K2 is a pretty capable machine (Dual A/C10s are nice), but the Catapult C1, C4, and A1 seem to be rather mediocre in the current enviroment. I'd like to see some missile based quirks for the Catapult.

Maybe any one of the ones below. It would count towards all missile types if applicable (LRMs, SRMs, and SSRMs)

• Faster missile travel time
  
• Shorter cool down for missiles (reload)
  
• Quicker terget lock
  
• longer target lock after LOS is broken
  
• Steeper ascent and descent arch

Just some ideas. Some might not be possible (like missile behavior), but I still feel like the mech needs some help and with it being primarily a missile boat, it needs special missile boosts.

I know LRMs especially aren't the most popular weapon, but this mech was built to use them, it should use them well.

[Apnu]

I love these ideas. Catapults and Awesomes need perks to make them stand out in their intended roles (LRMs or PPCs)

[MadMaxMKII]

just no. honestly, not a single mech should have quirks. the problems we have should be handled in another way.

[Trip Hammer]

MadMaxMKII, on 29 July 2014 - 08:19 AM, said:

just no. honestly, not a single mech should have quirks. the problems we have should be handled in another way.

To your response....WHY?

To address the original thread. I do think that quirks could be really fun but I also think that if handled improperly they could make some of the current problems worse. Making the Awesome too heat efficient will just play to the current pinpoint meta and will add that mech to list of abusers. So I hope that they go slow to start off with.

[MeiSooHaityu]

MadMaxMKII, on 29 July 2014 - 08:19 AM, said:

just no. honestly, not a single mech should have quirks. the problems we have should be handled in another way.

I understand your answer if the debate was for whether mechs should have quirks at all.

Mechs getting specific quirks might be lazy development or a shortcut bandaid, but it is happeneing regardless. Since it is happening to other mechs, shouldn't the Catapult get some help too?

Maybe it should be handled a different way, but since PGI isn't doing that, it should be included in the system PGI did decide to go with (IMO).

[Spheroid]

Until they fix the ear problems all else is secondary.

[Livewyr]

Yeah, Inner Sphere Barrage missiles are not annoying enough. They need to come faster and faster.

[Eddrick]

What about tightening the spread for SRMs (Stackable with Artemis)?

[Malleus011]

Catapults tend to get their CT's picked apart a lot, so maybe a small quirk there. While that would probably help them a bit, it's not really in their character.

Missile cool-down would be nice, but I already rip through ammo really rapidly. I doubt they'll let us affect missile performance. Of the remainder, I'd like to keep locks longer; that feels like the biggest problem the missile Cats have. I'd also take slightly less heat from missile launchers, as they're exposed out in the big boxes anyway.

The Cat leg design has always looked very robust and capable to me; I'd like to see them get a bonus to hill climbing (reverse knee 'mechs scale slopes easier) and possibly a boost to fall damage resistance. The K2 could keep these quirks despite the lack of JJ's. Hardly world-beaters as far as quirks, but it would fit their look.

Mostly, though, I just want them to fix the messed up geometry!

[Livewyr]

Honestly, I think the Catapult is one of those IS mechs that does not need tampered with. (The only problem it ever really had was the AC20 sized cockpit...)

[MeiSooHaityu]

Livewyr, on 29 July 2014 - 08:31 AM, said:

Yeah, Inner Sphere Barrage missiles are not annoying enough. They need to come faster and faster.

Missiles faster...good idea, I like that

Seriously though, if a Catapult gets some 10% bonus to missiles, you think so many people are going to become Catapult pilots that it will be an added issue? Nah.

I've been hearing since this game started that the Catapult should be a fire support mech and nothing else. That line of reasoning was used to defend the large head hitbox, the large CT, etc... If it is a great fire support mech, give it some bonuses to fire support.

We are talking 10% bonuses to some way missiles are handled on a Cat, I can't see that creating a huge Cat missile meta.

[El Bandito]

Catapults need smaller ears for smaller launchers. Especially for SRM Cats. Less missile heat quirk can also be considered, mimicing less energy heat for the Awesome.

Edited by El Bandito, 29 July 2014 - 10:27 AM.

[Livewyr]

MeiSooHaityu, on 29 July 2014 - 09:00 AM, said:

Missiles faster...good idea, I like that

Seriously though, if a Catapult gets some 10% bonus to missiles, you think so many people are going to become Catapult pilots that it will be an added issue? Nah.

I've been hearing since this game started that the Catapult should be a fire support mech and nothing else. That line of reasoning was used to defend the large head hitbox, the large CT, etc... If it is a great fire support mech, give it some bonuses to fire support.

We are talking 10% bonuses to some way missiles are handled on a Cat, I can't see that creating a huge Cat missile meta.

I cannot see it being necessary either.. It already has decent hitboxes, nigh unmatched torso twist, etc..

[SolasTau]

I think it should be looked at, but for the reason that the Mad Dog is most certainly coming. The Mad Dog will make the Catapult 110% obsolete if it hits with the janky half-weight Clan LRMs, as well as the decent short to medium range combat that 'mech is known for. There is no way for the 65 ton Catapult to be remotely competitive with the Mad Dog, which weighs less, is faster, has more armor (very slightly, but more), and FAR better configuration options.

If this were IS vs Clans exclusively, I'd say sure, that's fine... because it's supposed to be an uphill battle for IS. But in a game where every player can pick between those two mechs? We're already not seeing a lot of Catapults out there as they've been replaced in the Heavy bracket by the Timber Wolf. You'll see less of them if the Mad Dog comes out.

[El Bandito]

Livewyr, on 29 July 2014 - 10:26 AM, said:

I cannot see it being necessary either.. It already has decent hitboxes, nigh unmatched torso twist, etc..

The ear hitbox is too big IMO. I can understand why the C4 having Dumbo ears due to 20 missile slots, but A1 and C1 should get back their smaller ears, without the annoying taped VCRs. Even smaller ears for SRM/SSRM Cats. It is just so unfair for STK-3H to have such small ears for the same LRM20 slots. Simply not fair.

SolasTau, on 29 July 2014 - 10:29 AM, said:

I think it should be looked at, but for the reason that the Mad Dog is most certainly coming. The Mad Dog will make the Catapult 110% obsolete if it hits with the janky half-weight Clan LRMs, as well as the decent short to medium range combat that 'mech is known for. There is no way for the 65 ton Catapult to be remotely competitive with the Mad Dog, which weighs less, is faster, has more armor (very slightly, but more), and FAR better configuration options. If this were IS vs Clans exclusively, I'd say sure, that's fine... because it's supposed to be an uphill battle for IS. But in a game where every player can pick between those two mechs? We're already not seeing a lot of Catapults out there as they've been replaced in the Heavy bracket by the Timber Wolf. You'll see less of them if the Mad Dog comes out.

This too.

Edited by El Bandito, 29 July 2014 - 10:35 AM.

[PANZERKAT]

MadMaxMKII, on 29 July 2014 - 08:19 AM, said:

just no. honestly, not a single mech should have quirks. the problems we have should be handled in another way.

What, with weapon balancing? We've had too many years of that already.

Quirks are fine.

This could also help with the problem of double armour but normal ammo. Some of the well known AC mechs could receive a slight ammo bonus to their bins.

This is a good thing and pulls us away from Red vs Blue online.

[MeiSooHaityu]

Livewyr, on 29 July 2014 - 10:26 AM, said:

I cannot see it being necessary either.. It already has decent hitboxes, nigh unmatched torso twist, etc..

CT is still a bit squishy and the missile pods are big targets. I wouldn't ask for hitbox tweaks, but I wouldn't pretend they are great. Them make sense for the design, but they aren't THAT good.

Torso twist is pretty nice.

Problem is the firepower is a bit underwhelming in everything but the K2. A missile quirk giving a small boost to missiles might help give it some additional punch with a weapon that was designed to be its main arsenal and defining feature.

Again, since it I'd missile based, I figured this wouldn't be a popular idea with some.

[Tombstoner]

just fix the dam game already.... perks are nothing but band ****.

PGI built a fps game on top of a TT foundation... its missing badly needed FPS conversion of base TT values. Particularly with location hit frequencies. mech size and speed interactions on effective armor protection. 2 things needed in a FPS but not present in the TT

[Sandpit]

I like the idea of quirks....

but...

I think it could have been handled in other ways. I think it's looking at making yet another band-aid to help promote "obsolete" mechs. That's why the Awesome was one of the first to get some quirk love. I'm on the fence about it but only time will tell. Just for the record though, mech quirks should ONLY affect the mech, not weapon stats as far as physicals

Example:
faster cooldown on catapult missiles = ok
missiles magically travelling faster than other missiles =/= ok

awesomes getting a bonus to heat reduction = ok
awesomes having their PPC projectile magically travel faster =/= ok

[Deathlike]

Catapult-A1 got a quirk... it's just not reciprocated on the A1 Champion.