1263 replies to this topic

[Heffay]

dragnier1, on 29 July 2014 - 04:01 PM, said:

This will not solve the problem if weapons are arm mounted. Direwolf?

Direwolf arms all of a sudden become high priority targets.

[Zarathustrah]

Hey PGI, stop trying to remove your competitive community. There is no problem with ppc and gauss, or jump jets, the problem lies in the player, not the weapon styles. If you want to elongate the in game life of the mech, then reduce damage overall, don't make the game boring.

[LegoPirate]

Zyllos, on 29 July 2014 - 04:06 PM, said:

From the responses I got from my comment, it seems that torso twisting is over powered.

Too many players don't understand the entire armor system was built with the idea that weapons do not hit single locations when fired together. Hence why torso twisting + FLD is considered the "right" way to play by some players.

please keep posting.

[Macksheen]

First thought, seconded. Way too complicated.

Second thought, are you just going to move the problem to something else?

Changing the freaking shot-speed is annoying. Don't do that. If you're going to do something, do something on the lock-out side preventing multiple from being fired at once. Limit a PPC to not be fire-able while a gauss is charging should be good enough.

I wouldn't mind killing the gauss charge-up either, and I'd much rather see (instead of ghost heat) a capacitor-like charging mechanism affecting cool-downs. Have each (PPC, gauss) "charge" passively, but have the recharge slowed progressively for each additional one fired and "passively" charging.

[Adiuvo]

Zyllos, on 29 July 2014 - 04:06 PM, said:

From the responses I got from my comment, it seems that torso twisting is over powered.

Too many players don't understand the entire armor system was built with the idea that weapons do not hit single locations when fired together. Hence why torso twisting + FLD is considered the "right" way to play by some players.

This is a Mechwarrior game. Where you can aim. This is not Battletech tabletop, where you roll dice. If you want that experience, go play Megamek.

[Skadi]

LegoPirate, on 29 July 2014 - 04:10 PM, said:

please keep posting.

You saw it here first folks, skadi agreeing with legopirate.

[sizz0r]

I think the combo is fine right now but if i had to decide between those two options:

I don't like the idea with that ~50% speed decrease. It will hit ppc's really hard when it comes to mid - long range firefights.
It also doesn't do anything against the high pin-point damage against standing targets or at close range battle.

That mechanic, hm... it is a little bit complicated but i think i could live with a 1 sec cd between gauss and pcc. You need to be able to make two good shots within seconds and the target still has a fair chance to react fast and avoid high pin-point damage.

Edited by sizz0r, 29 July 2014 - 04:12 PM.

[Kyynele]

The first mechanic is way too convoluted. You shouldn't have to read a manual to be able to properly use a weapon in the game. Just like you shouldn't have to read a manual on which builds are acceptable and which ones get invisible magical heat penalties.

Out of these 2, projectile speed change doesn't introduce new arbitrary exceptions to how the weapons work, so it's clearly the better one.

[ALKALIN3]

Zyllos, on 29 July 2014 - 03:53 PM, said:

Who said "torso twist" the only way to play a MechWarrior game?

Zyllos, on 29 July 2014 - 04:06 PM, said:

From the responses I got from my comment, it seems that torso twisting is over powered.

Too many players don't understand the entire armor system was built with the idea that weapons do not hit single locations when fired together. Hence why torso twisting + FLD is considered the "right" way to play by some players.

Is this guys serious?!?! Dont even rage quit....you need to stupid quit!

[Macksheen]

In addition ... I dislike this kind of change. Some combo will always be good and used by the "best" subset. Whatever. Let's not keep nerfing things.

Any chance we can do something like ... boost armor a bit ... then increase other weapons so they are fun and useful, instead of putting in some sort of hard-to-manage asinine can't fire x then y mechanic.

[chaos585]

So by doing this you would lower the skill cap once again by doing this either by making the game overly complicated moving us to either Dual Guass or ERLL. That with all the lrm changes makes me feel more and more you don't want skilled players in the game as it seems you are only catering to the less skilled crowd. As the trend goes if your TTK is too low up Armor Values. Otherwise all you are doing is changing the meta until you have removed all direct fire viability and leave us with lrms at which point your twitch shooter crowd will leave.

[Trevelyas]

Dislike both ideas.

- If you destroy the weapon combo with your complicated lockout system, people will ditch PPCs and just use ERLL with one or two gauss.
- If you destroy PPCs with a massive speed reduction... again people will ditch the PPCs and just use ERLL with one or two gauss.

In every scenario where you nerf PPC gauss, it gets replaced with (clan)ERLL gauss combinations. In the end you'll just see loads of clan mechs boating cERLL + gauss camping at +800m (to which IS mechs have no answer).

Instead: Increase Clan ERPPC arcing from 2.5-10-2.5 to 4-7-4 or even 5-5-5. That'll help keep IS on even footing with Clan equivalent snipers.
... And teach players how to not stare at their enemies as they take repeated hits to one location from snipers.

Edited by Trevelyas, 29 July 2014 - 04:24 PM.

[Wintersdark]

heimdelight, on 29 July 2014 - 03:36 PM, said:

I'm really disliking any more weapon combo restrictions. It continues to remove customization from the game, in the same way Ghost Heat did. Weapons affected by Ghost Heat are literally not viable. These mechanics seem to make them go down the same road.

Please, do not lockdown any weapons. That is a terrible idea.

Slowing down the projectile speed is the obvious way to go. I'm not sure about 750m/s, maybe like 950m/s. Anything else is very short of overly nerfing the weapons being used against any loadouts, period.

I'm with Heimdelight here.

I really, REALLY dislike the idea of locking down weaponry, because as Paul notes it's a complex, active system that really makes pairing things difficult. I'm fine with weapons simply not pairing together well, but systems that artificially break those pairings are heavy handed and crude.

On the other hand, slowing the PPC projectile down doesn't impact how a player wants to use it, just how much he must lead a target.

So, yeah, just slow down the projectile.

[ImperialKnight]

stop over complicating things. what's with the fascination with complicated solutions to simple problems? all this lockdown/ghost heat would not be needed if you just fix pin point damage.

Gauss Rifle: Charge mechanic fine as it is, would prefer the ability to hold charge longer at the cost of rapid heat buildup.

PPC: Change this to a spread damage weapon. It spreads damage equally to connected components. For e.g. IS PPC is 10 damage. An arm hit spreads damage 5/5 arm and side torso, a side torso hit spreads damage 3.3/3.3/3.3 CT/side torso/arm, a CT hit spreads damage 2 each to CT/both sides/legs(cockpit immune to spread damage)

Reduced accuracy when firing multiple pin-point FLD weapons i.e. IS ACs/Gauss/PPC. The more you fire, the more your shots go all over the place.

This way lasers remain the only pinpoint damage weapon in the game, which is fine, as they are DoTs

[Gyrok]

Nikolai Lubkiewicz, on 29 July 2014 - 10:53 AM, said:

Greetings MechWarriors!

Please let us know which of Paul's ideas to balance PPC+Gauss you would prefer to see in-game!

Bring PPC speed down...Gauss has already been hit hard enough, and PPCs have needed to get taken down a notch for a while.

[Wintersdark]

Trevelyas, on 29 July 2014 - 04:17 PM, said:

Terrible ideas.

- If you destroy the weapon combo with your silly overly-complicated lockout system, people will ditch PPCs and just use ERLL with one or two gauss.
- If you destroy PPCs with a massive speed reduction... again people will ditch the PPCs and just use ERLL with one or two gauss.

In every scenario where you nerf PPC gauss, it gets replaced with (clan)ERLL gauss combinations. In the end you'll just see loads of clan mechs boating cERLL + gauss camping at +800m (to which IS mechs have no answer).

ERLL+Gauss pairs are not as problematic as PPC+Gauss pairs. Particularly Clan ERLL's - they're very long ranged, sure, but they also have absurdly long beam times and at those ranges, with those beam times, you'll NEVER land all that damage on one location.

PPC+Gauss pairings are all front loaded - a quick pop from cover (be it jump or hump), fire, and return to cover is a lot more dangerous and low-risk than pop out, aim, hold 1.5s beam burn duration on target, return to cover.

It's a totally different ballpark.

[Skadi]

Trevelyas, on 29 July 2014 - 04:17 PM, said:

Dislike both ideas.

- If you destroy the weapon combo with your complicated lockout system, people will ditch PPCs and just use ERLL with one or two gauss.
- If you destroy PPCs with a massive speed reduction... again people will ditch the PPCs and just use ERLL with one or two gauss.

In every scenario where you nerf PPC gauss, it gets replaced with (clan)ERLL gauss combinations. In the end you'll just see loads of clan mechs boating cERLL + gauss camping at +800m (to which IS mechs have no answer).

Instead: Increase Clan ERPPC arcing from 2.5-10-2.5 to 4-7-4 or even 5-5-5. That'll help keep IS on even footing with Clan equivalent snipers.

http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/mechlab#i=171&l=1a0cefd0c36ba2d3833f8c699873b6c1dc2cb008
K im ready for the nerf paul.

Edited by Skadi, 29 July 2014 - 04:22 PM.

[Geck0]

While I am hopeful, this is more of the same. Just band aid after band aid. A constant effort to "fix" pop tarting while trying to keep something that shouldn't be viable to begin with.

The issue has NEVER BEEN with the weapons. It has been the ability to land damage on a single spot consistently. The gausspult, the fastback, the jager-bomb, the pepsi stalker, etc, etc. The weapons have never been the root of the issue. The issues the weapons had were the most readily visible and masked the real issue that PGI has yet to address and likely never will.

As usual too complex for its own good. Apply the accuracy debuff that occurs while using jump jets while in mid air even when you're not using jump jets. Can still shoot while mid flight but brings it to a risky tactic at best and brings back the core game play.

[ALKALIN3]

This idea is similar to this...

"The notion of transwarp beaming is like trying to hit a bullet with a smaller bullet, whilst wearing a blindfold, riding a horse."[/color]

– Montgomery Scott, 2258 (Star Trek)[/color]

Edited by Aodh, 29 July 2014 - 04:23 PM.

[W i L d F i R 3]

I think this is a ******** idea. This is a simple problem. What you have, is the newbs complaining about getting blasted and dying to fast. The fact of the matter is that the top players are going to run whatever they have to to win. Rather it be splat cats, AC40s, or 2xAC5/PPC, or Gauss/PPC.

You can make the firing mechanism as difficult as possible, and we will still figure out how to do it, and still crush everyone with it. If you nerf it to oblivion, then we will just use the next best thing (meta as some of you whinny babies like to call it.).

I think the last thing you want is a bunch of LRM boats and ERLL builds with targeting computers rocking your world at 1200 meters.

Everyone who plays this game, can build their mech how ever they want, that's just the rules. I'm sorry some people get annihilated almost instantly, but no matter what you do to try and balance it, some mechs will always be superior, and some weapons will always give an advantage.

So go ahead, nerf away, and we will just find new ways to kill you.

LORD LUI
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