62 replies to this topic

[Ebonkosh]

But I have seen many posts about damage that are 1200 to even 1900 for a match. I know there will be good and bad matches but I am not aware of any IS mechs that are able to get 1900 in a match. Is there any screenshots of IS mechs with dam over even 1700? Just wondering where the IS mechs stand in comparison to this type of damage output. I figure role warfare is long gone as far as a true plan for PGI with the way things are going but what is the counter for this? just really bad hitboxes? Be a better pilot and move or something? Starting to feel the Atlas is a thing of the past for fear on the battlefield.



Ebon.

[SolasTau]

Well, the TWolf is fast, so it might be mobile enough to catch everyone with direct fire whereas comparable IS mechs... don't really exist. And the Dire Wolf is basically a walking apartment building made of guns, so it tends to cause havoc whenever people are dumb enough to walk in front of it... which considering the fine whine of these forums, I'd say is frequent.

The entire concept of putting down nearly 2k damage in a match is pretty rough, though. That's a LOT of up time on shooting without managing to blow people up. They're either amazing pilots fighting other amazing pilots who can defend but apparently can't shoot back, or people are trumping stuff up. I won't call it impossibru, but it we're talking around 150 damage to EACH mech on the field. I'd think that would be difficult to make happen in context of MWO matches.

[Bhael Fire]

Ebonkosh, on 01 August 2014 - 10:18 PM, said:

Starting to feel the Atlas is a thing of the past for fear on the battlefield.

Just got my Timber Wolf's asss handed to me by an Atlas...he was a dapper fella and offered me champaign afterward.

So, yeah...IS mechs are indeed kicking ass out on the field. Damage output is by no means a be all, end all means of determining a mech's value.

Clan weapons do a lot of DOT (damage over time), so it's to be expected that total damage done is going to be higher than average compared to IS mechs.

However...IS mechs do a LOT more PINPOINT damage...which is VERY effective at dropping mechs quickly with very little damage.

So...

Yeah. Look at the big picture. Always.

[Tharnes]

Well the pay-whales only need to look at an atlas and it falls apart.

[Vassago Rain]

It was pretty easy to go 1000+ damage on a banshee before they ruined AC2s.

We had a guy with 12 tons of ballistic ammo score 1800~ damage once.

Atlases have been worthless since the banshee released. They're way, way worse now with clan robots running around. I barely play mine now, and they are basically my totem mech.

Edited by Vassago Rain, 01 August 2014 - 10:35 PM.

[FupDup]

The Mad Cat and Ryoken 'might' qualify as OP at this point. There is no question that they are beastmode amazing mechs, although some people have different thresholds for when powerful crosses the line into overpoweredness.

The rest of the Clan mechs, however, have serious drawbacks that prevent them from being OP or even "good."


Puma: Slow for its weight, hardwired Flamer, bad hardpoint options, no JJ, no ECM

Cute Fox: Slow for its weight, isn't 35 tons

Nova: Relatively meh hitboxes, especially with the large arms and legs (easy to shoot off), rather low pod space limits its options, dependent on arm-mounted weapons (similar issue as Catapults, particularly the A1)

Thor: Low pod space for its size, making it into basically a fat medium trapped in a heavy's body, has fairly bad hardpoints, big leg hitboxes

Peacedove: Really limited critslot capacity makes it somewhat hard to create a build, mostly bad hardpoints, hardwired DHS and lack of Endo sap a lot of it's potential tonnage pool

Dire Whale: Slow as balls, bad agility

Edited by FupDup, 01 August 2014 - 10:36 PM.

[Vassago Rain]

FupDup, on 01 August 2014 - 10:34 PM, said:

The Mad Cat and Ryoken 'might' qualify as OP at this point. There is no question that they are beastmode amazing mechs, although some people have different thresholds for when powerful crosses the line into overpoweredness.

The rest of the Clan mechs, however, have serious drawbacks that prevent them from being OP or even "good."


Puma: Slow for its weight, hardwired Flamer, bad hardpoint options, no JJ, no ECM

Cute Fox: Slow for its weight, isn't 35 tons

Nova: Relatively meh hitboxes, especially with the large arms and legs (easy to shoot off), rather low pod space limits its options, dependent on arm-mounted weapons (similar issue as Catapults, particularly the A1)

Thor: Low pod space for its size, making it into basically a fat medium trapped in a heavy's body, has fairly bad hardpoints, big leg hitboxes

Peacedove: Really limited critslot capacity makes it somewhat hard to create a build, mostly bad hardpoints, hardwired DHS and lack of Endo sap a lot of it's potential tonnage pool

Dire Whale: Slow as balls, bad agility

The players have responded to this by not playing the true blunders. I do love it when I drop and I see 6 madcats on my own team.

[Aresye]

FupDup, on 01 August 2014 - 10:34 PM, said:

The Mad Cat and Ryoken 'might' qualify as OP at this point.

I find it funny how the Stormcrow was originally touted as being worse than the Nova, and now all of a sudden (once the competitive community found a meta build for it) it's being ranked up there as one of the OP mechs.

Seems whatever the good players touch it starts getting labeled as OP. I wonder why that is?

[FupDup]

Vassago Rain, on 01 August 2014 - 10:38 PM, said:

The players have responded to this by not playing the true blunders. I do love it when I drop and I see 6 madcats on my own team.

It's a sad drawback of the TT Omni rules, unfortunately. Unless Piggy starts getting generous with quirking, there's gonna be issues. The whole point of the restrictions is the balance out the powerful weaponry, but when you have an optimal base config then the lack of customizing doesn't matter as much...but if you then nerf the weapons to be fully on-par with the IS, the crap base configs would still be crap unless you let them customize. But, at that point, they'd basically be reskinned IS robots with equal customizing and equal weapons.

It's a damned if you do, damned if you don't kind of situation. There isn't really a good way out of it that doesn't cause issues.

Aresye, on 01 August 2014 - 10:41 PM, said:

I find it funny how the Stormcrow was originally touted as being worse than the Nova, and now all of a sudden (once the competitive community found a meta build for it) it's being ranked up there as one of the OP mechs.

Seems whatever the good players touch it starts getting labeled as OP. I wonder why that is?

Hey, I said "might." It depends on where one sets the baseline for when a mech is either OP or just really effective. It can vary based on who you ask. My personal opinion is that I'm still deciding...but the mech is certainly pretty good (I personally do a lot better with the Ryoken, though).


Also, I'm not sure who said the Stormcrow was worse than the Nova, because the SC always had a more optimal base config due to its engine size and use of Endo + FF. The Nova just has a niche role of lazor spamming.

Edited by FupDup, 01 August 2014 - 10:44 PM.

[Vassago Rain]

Aresye, on 01 August 2014 - 10:41 PM, said:

I find it funny how the Stormcrow was originally touted as being worse than the Nova, and now all of a sudden (once the competitive community found a meta build for it) it's being ranked up there as one of the OP mechs.

Seems whatever the good players touch it starts getting labeled as OP. I wonder why that is?

The nova was always gonna be bad. Small engine, no endo, no FF. I don't know who told you the stormcrow would be bad.

[SolasTau]

See, I would take offense to all this Nova bashing and all the Stormcrow gushing...

...but I kinda' saw Stormcrows in half with lasers. Sometimes those lasers are on my Nova. Sometimes they're my dubstep beams on my Catapult C1. But I'm usually sawing Stormcrows into their various component pieces, so.

[Kyle Wright]

Vassago Rain, on 01 August 2014 - 10:46 PM, said:

The nova was always gonna be bad. Small engine, no endo, no FF. I don't know who told you the stormcrow would be bad.

When people where in the test server and lasers were at full power 12 SML or 8 MLs with 4 MGs was pretty brutal. I mean we are talking a mech that could kill anything in its weight class quickly and disfigure heavier mechs. Then people started to realize that with higher speed and better hitboxes Stormcrow was the better choice though it lacked hardpoints in comparison to the Nova.

[Vassago Rain]

Kyle Wright, on 01 August 2014 - 10:53 PM, said:

When people where in the test server and lasers were at full power 12 SML or 8 MLs with 4 MGs was pretty brutal. I mean we are talking a mech that could kill anything in its weight class quickly and disfigure heavier mechs. Then people started to realize that with higher speed and better hitboxes Stormcrow was the better choice though it lacked hardpoints in comparison to the Nova.

Sounds like a typical case of bads gonna bad to me. But the nova is admittedly not even 5% as bad as the thor, puma, or peacebird.

[FupDup]

Vassago Rain, on 01 August 2014 - 11:06 PM, said:

Sounds like a typical case of bads gonna bad to me. But the nova is admittedly not even 5% as bad as the thor, puma, or peacebird.

The correct nickname for the Puma is "Badder."

[Vassago Rain]

FupDup, on 01 August 2014 - 11:07 PM, said:

The correct nickname for the Puma is "Badder."

I like to call them unicorns, because you're never gonna see one.

[FupDup]

Vassago Rain, on 01 August 2014 - 11:09 PM, said:

I like to call them unicorns, because you're never gonna see one.

The unicorn's "horn" is even on fire due to the Flamer, too.



If only the Badder could be awesome like that.

[John80sk]

An arty and an air strike can easily net you 500 damage. Lets assume that in a 1900 damage match 300 of it was caused by arty/air.

1600 damage.

The typical timbertart carries 30 rounds of gauss ammo, meaning 450 of that with perfect shooting was from gauss rounds. The remaining 1150 means ~77.7 shots of PPC. Therefor, ~383 of that damage didn't go to where the timbertart wanted it to.

So, 1217 damage with no arty/air in a dragon slayer? Sure, seen it and done it.

Kyle Wright, on 01 August 2014 - 10:53 PM, said:

When people where in the test server and lasers were at full power 12 SML or 8 MLs with 4 MGs was pretty brutal. I mean we are talking a mech that could kill anything in its weight class quickly and disfigure heavier mechs. Then people started to realize that with higher speed and better hitboxes Stormcrow was the better choice though it lacked hardpoints in comparison to the Nova.

That and they nerfed the clan small laser, because PGI gonna PGI and such.

Edited by John80sk, 01 August 2014 - 11:58 PM.

[Lily from animove]

mech usage feels pretty balanced

NOT

[Rhent]

Ebonkosh, on 01 August 2014 - 10:18 PM, said:

But I have seen many posts about damage that are 1200 to even 1900 for a match. I know there will be good and bad matches but I am not aware of any IS mechs that are able to get 1900 in a match. Is there any screenshots of IS mechs with dam over even 1700? Just wondering where the IS mechs stand in comparison to this type of damage output. I figure role warfare is long gone as far as a true plan for PGI with the way things are going but what is the counter for this? just really bad hitboxes? Be a better pilot and move or something? Starting to feel the Atlas is a thing of the past for fear on the battlefield.



Ebon.

The Atlas has always been a fairly poor mech for its tonnage. Its slow to close to brawl effectively and if you can take out its right side, you've effectively cut off most of the mechs fire power. Run a Banshee 3E, 2 PPC and 3 AC/5, you have plenty of fire power even if you do lose a torso.

[Mystere]

John80sk, on 01 August 2014 - 11:55 PM, said:

That and they nerfed the clan small laser, because PGI gonna PGI and such.

Well, people cried, so PGI complied.