63 replies to this topic

[Flapdrol]

LOADED, on 02 August 2014 - 06:20 AM, said:

Rest 20? Typo? 20 Watt is hardly enough to support 2 HDDs.

There was only 1 in though. k, maybe with exotic cooling the "rest" would add up to about 30, not more though, with a single disk.

Anyway, in gtx 760 reviews I see power consumption levels of 320 watt for the entire system from the wall. This system isn't going to come close to pulling 550W from the psu. And even if it did it'd be fine with a corsair 80+ gold psu.

Edited by Flapdrol, 02 August 2014 - 06:50 AM.

[BP Raven]

As others have said, that CPU cooler is probably overkill if you're not overclocking (or live in a really warm climate). Plus you will need to keep an eye on the coolant and top it up/change it from time to time. A decent quality air cooler will just need the dust blowing out of it every few months.

[Goose]

Half the point of the closed-loops is they are also maintenance free …

[B L O O D W I T C H]

Flapdrol, on 02 August 2014 - 06:48 AM, said:

There was only 1 in though. k, maybe with exotic cooling the "rest" would add up to about 30, not more though, with a single disk.

Anyway, in gtx 760 reviews I see power consumption levels of 320 watt for the entire system from the wall. This system isn't going to come close to pulling 550W from the psu. And even if it did it'd be fine with a corsair 80+ gold psu.

Goose, on 02 August 2014 - 09:09 AM, said:

Half the point of the closed-loops is they are also maintenance free …

Yes, in theory, i'd still say keep a look on it now and then. Like people, they get older.. and start to leak. Doesn't change the overkill factor. An Air cooler is also almost maintenance free, expect for the dusk cleaning, which still applies for the rest of the PC.
And in chance some maintenance is required, the liquid cooling is at least slightly more difficult to handle. Not saying inpossible task or anything for less experienced users, just slightly more difficult.
If you want such a cooling, kay, if not drop down to a normal 20-30 dollar air cooler and save some dollars (or spend them somewhere else).

Edited by LOADED, 02 August 2014 - 09:33 AM.

[Verushe]

I would highly recommend adding an SSD as some have suggested. Put the OS and one or two of the current games you play on it. I work in IT and every time I have switched a user (or a family member) to an SSD equipped system they have loved it.

[Ryvucz]

One thing I've always been wary of, is overclocking anything.

My cousin swears by it, but he also goes through twice as many PCs as I do in a 5 year period.

[BP Raven]

Goose, on 02 August 2014 - 09:09 AM, said:

Half the point of the closed-loops is they are also maintenance free …

Yeah, but the CM Eisberg isn't totally closed loop, you can add to it as required.

[Goose]

Goose, on 01 August 2014 - 10:18 PM, said:

The PSU seems a hair steep, but of good size: That just what's around?

The PSU is fine, but it is costly.

[dwwolf]

I think the liquidcooling is overkill for this, get a nice aircooler for about 40-50$. I'd go for an 80+ bronze PSU in the same watt range.

Use saved cash for a 120Gb SSD hard drive to install OS and MWO on.
SSD = no1 increase of smoothness for any system.
12 seconds to desktop...no problemo.

Edited by dwwolf, 02 August 2014 - 11:13 AM.

[GunnyKintaro 01]

looks good hope you enjoy !

[shadoxhunter]

Your CPU looks fine. Overclocking is cool and be a nice feature but is not required. Overclocking also lowers the life of your CPU. You might want to look into just getting a faster CPU and dropping the water cooler.

The motherboard is okay. Not bad but not great. It will do everything you need it to do.

You might want to get faster ram. I would recommended getting some that has 1800MHZ speed.

The hard drive is fine. You don't need a SSD. They are faster then mechanical drives but they are still too expensive for my taste.

The graphics card is fine. I run a EVGA GTX 760 in my computer and have no problems.

My last note is rethink your OS. Windows 8.1 has a lot of issues and can be a nightmare to work with. Save yourself a headache and go with Windows 7.

[Alreech]

Goose, on 02 August 2014 - 09:09 AM, said:

Half the point of the closed-loops is they are also maintenance free …

No, they aren't.
You have to blow out the dust from the heat sink regulary
Depending on the design of the heat sink they are even worse to clean than many tower coolers.

There is a small benefit of those closed-loop CPU water coolers:
In a small case they work slightly better than a conventional tower or top down cooler, because they blow the heat out of the case. But in a big tower with good airflow the effect isn't really noticable.

They do give a nice clean look in the case, thats also not bad.

[dwwolf]

shadoxhunter, on 02 August 2014 - 11:19 AM, said:

Your CPU looks fine. Overclocking is cool and be a nice feature but is not required. Overclocking also lowers the life of your CPU. You might want to look into just getting a faster CPU and dropping the water cooler.

The motherboard is okay. Not bad but not great. It will do everything you need it to do.

You might want to get faster ram. I would recommended getting some that has 1800MHZ speed.

The hard drive is fine. You don't need a SSD. They are faster then mechanical drives but they are still too expensive for my taste.

The graphics card is fine. I run a EVGA GTX 760 in my computer and have no problems.

My last note is rethink your OS. Windows 8.1 has a lot of issues and can be a nightmare to work with. Save yourself a headache and go with Windows 7.

60$ for 120-128GB = OS + couple of games.
SSD is the one upgrade that makes everything feel like silk.

RAM speed is completely superfluous for 99% of builds once you get past DDR3-1333. Even going past ddr-1333 only nets you 1-2% on Intel CPU's. Only AMD CPU/with inbuilt GPU have RAM limitations on performance and then only if you use the integrated GPU.

Edited by dwwolf, 02 August 2014 - 11:48 AM.

[Goose]

Alreech, on 02 August 2014 - 11:36 AM, said:

No, they aren't.
You have to blow out the dust from the heat sink regulary

Compared to the full-on fish-tank BS the "normal" liquid loops involve? It's free …

[Keira RAVEN McKenna]

Wow, quite the debate. Thanks for the interest AND the clean arguments.

I'll quote the guy in the store and you'll see why I liked his style and, after reading through here, honesty.

Can I have an i7 to play MWO? - " That's overkill, you don't need hyperthreading (still not clear on what this is), try an i5 and save some dollars"

Can I have 16Gb RAM? - "Diminishing returns for the dollars spent for playing MWO, 8Gb is fine for now"

What about higher than 1600 speed RAM? - "Diminishing returns for the dollars spent. A 60% RAM speed increase equals a 6% performance improvement."

I have 2 new sticks of Ripjaws X DDR3 1600 4Gb RAM sitting in a draw, can I use them? - "Yes, they will be fine for now"

Can I have an SSD? - "It speeds up Boot Up, but wont effect the game play, for what you want, its a nice to have but not a need to have. Add it later"

Whats the GOLD mean on the PSU? - "most cheaper PSUs dump have the input power as heat and half as available power for the system. A silver certified PSU converts 80% input to system available power and 20% to waste heat, a Gold Certed one 90% to power, 10% to waste heat. Heat is a system killer. There are Platinum PSUs but as I like to say, diminishing returns per dollar"

Why 550W? - "Gives you a little room to move power wise later on if you decide to add the SSD or something else without being overkill"

What about all the cheaper but same sized systems I see on Trademe (our NZ Local version of eBay I guess)? - "they all use the B85 motherboard, a workstation board, not a gaming specific board. The Z97 is faster to handle all the extra calculations games demand"

I like the glowing green water cooler things, can I have one? - "That is overkill unless you intend overclocking, which I would guess you aren't. A standard air cooler is fine, but if you really want one you can fit one, you just don't need it"

I really liked his approach. He saw an unPC savvy woman driving a nice expensive car (every guy loves my car) and could have ripped me for all I had but didn't. For that reason alone I'm happy to pay a little more.

Edited by Keira_NZ, 03 August 2014 - 01:23 AM.

[Keira RAVEN McKenna]

I love this too, thanks LOADED



Serenity was a favorite series of mine and Nathan Fallon is brilliant!

Edited by Keira_NZ, 02 August 2014 - 02:02 PM.

[B L O O D W I T C H]

Goose, on 02 August 2014 - 10:50 AM, said:

The PSU is fine, but it is costly.

so your 378 Watt for the minimum components without periphery at 90% workload is totally different then my 400-450 Watt including periphery at 100% workload.

Your point?

[Goose]

Forgot the capacitor aging: It's 476w …

[B L O O D W I T C H]

Keira_NZ, on 02 August 2014 - 02:00 PM, said:

I love this too, thanks LOADED



Serenity was a favorite series of mine and Nathan Fallon is brilliant!

No. NO! Serenity is the movie! the Serie is Firefly. How... could... you... no, joke, Still not sure if i don't want to go over and slap someone at Fox for canceling the series. And with "slap" i mean a chair.. to the head.. repeatedly.

OT: consulting looks solid, i'd say ask about the QVA (board manufacturer guarantees that the RAM modules are working with the board modell)

As for Memory, you do acutally pay less per GB if you chose higher modules, but you do have to spend more ofc. the thing is the "for now". 2x 4 GB can be upgraded to 4x 4GB if you do want to keep your already bought and installed modules.

As for the PSU, ugh,, already rustled to many jimmies, i guess.

Important is that you do trust the guys at the store, if anything comes up the next 2 years, you'll have to deal with them.

Goose, on 02 August 2014 - 02:08 PM, said:

Forgot the capacitor aging: It's 476w …

From my experience, the aging occures at random, the often change the used capacitors (even on the same board) but they're amost all build to endure as long as the warrenty goes.

btw 476 Watt without peripheries or upgrades at 90%, the system could require 10% more (in an absolute worst case)
the GPU (GTX 760) is using somewhat near 150 Watt while gaming and up to 160-165 on a stress test. It is capable of requiring even 170 watt. So the GPU alone will take 10 to 20 Watt more for those 10% more workload. 476 Watt is already beyond the wanted 50-80% PSU usage. it's getting close to 90%.. and like i said, will probably shorten the lifespan and work inefficient.
I'm just advising to put in a PSU which is at least capable to handle what the overall setup CAN require, and, if possible, not at 80 to 95% usage.

Edited by LOADED, 02 August 2014 - 02:39 PM.

[Catamount]

Even if the system could, under an extraordinarily unlikely set of conditions, require 476*1.1=~520W, that is still no justification for a 750W PSU, because the system would never encounter such conditions regularly, so that 80% usage would be an extraordinarily rare event, not something the system would be subject to for long periods, unless we have user who likes to spend weeks on end running Prime95+Furmark while thrashing all of his drives, just for giggles.

550 is more than adequate, because this system will rarely, if ever, be drawing a worst case scenario load that will take such a unit out of its comfort zone, and should never, ever, under any circumstance, exceed the capability of the unit (not even accounting for the fact that any decent unit is capable of outputting beyond its rated capacity anyways, conservative engineering and all).

There is no sense spending money on circumstances that don't actually apply to the real world, let alone to the degree of that kind of overkill.

650W is overkill. 750 is just doing this:

Quote

As for a 550 Watt can handle a 550 Watt workload.. nope.. i assure you, it will not survive for long IF the system comes close to full workload

I guess you've never used or bothered reading reviews of decent power supplies then. Hardware Secrets actually tests units above their rated output; any decent unit passes.

Quote

I usually take of the efficience for a PSU, that's what i assume as the maximum power it can deliver. A 80+ bronze may have a 80-84% efficience but that's usually only for up to 80% workload. Once it reached that 80% workload it will behave differently thanks to the heat is generating. That's a spiral, the longer it goes the worse it get.

You have empirical data to back this statement? Just about every review site out there tests units at 100% load. Nothing they show, ever, backs up a single word of this.



Edit: got my reviewers mixed up

Edited by Catamount, 02 August 2014 - 03:22 PM.