93 replies to this topic

[Greyboots]

Oddly enough, this isn't a troll post!

I'm one of the first to warn new players away from light mechs and IMHO they are probably the hardest class of mech to play well.

So yes, many recent changes have made light mechs even harder to play well. I feel for light players who have hit a brick wall because PGI rarely considers the full ramifications of their changes. Still, stick with it! Light mechs are still pretty awesome if you can get over the new hurdles in the way.

There's so many twin ERLL or twin PPC lights out there and many people think that this is about the only way to be viable anymore and it is 100% not true. So I wanted to show that the short-ranged light is still a force to be reckoned with.



Yes, this mech is running both arty and air strikes BUT the arty strike in the video missed completely (I only really dropped it to make mechs moving to back others up go away) and the air strike only hit the Stalker. Hardly resounding damage. Otherwise it's just got a capture accelerator in it. Some of the highest scores in the video were done without arty/air strikes too. The top scoring match (188k in earnings before the hero mech bonus w/ 5 kills) was before it was fully trained too.

I realise the Ember a Hero mech but it's simply new and I was driving it at the time I felt I wanted to make the point. It's actually slower than my FS9-H but carries an extra MG, There's truly not a lot of difference between the way I've set the two up except the paint. It's a good mech but I don't consider it "Pay to Win" in any way.

The key factor here is simple. Light mechs are often more about DRIVING than shooting. About watching the battlefield rather than just attacking. When something is focused on someone else? Run in and go through it's back. Most people usually have sod all rear armour so your relatively light weaponry makes for quick kills and so on.

Don't just jump into lights and think you're going to be great at it. Chances are that you won't be very good to start with but after a while? Well, the video shows a pretty nasty 35 tons.

Persevere though. It's some of the best fun on offer in MWO.

UPDATE: since so many are commenting about the above video using an ember, here's an FS9H (trained to Basic only):


JR7D:



This time I chose a match where we lost because it means I had to be a LOT more careful in the later stages of the game.

Edited by Greyboots, 02 August 2014 - 07:34 PM.

[Vassago Rain]

You're playing in an ember, OP.

[Lily from animove]

thats why there are enarly none in the group matches, lol

[Greyboots]

Vassago Rain, on 01 August 2014 - 11:14 PM, said:

You're playing in an ember, OP.

The OP will be updated before too long with a video using an FS9H (I normally use the FS9K and bought this one again for the video).

The setup is nearly identical to the Ember I used in the first video: 2 MGs instead of the Ember's 3, the same 3 Medium Lasers + 1 small pulse.

It is also only trained to BASIC. It is therefore slower, hotter and a bit unweildy in the aiming department.

Kills: 2
Assists: 8
Component Destructions: 7
cBills: 173,742
XP: 1,588.

It's not about the OP mech, it's about how you play.

[John1352]

I don't run Firestarters, but I know for certain if I tried that in my Jenner I'd usually lose my CT before the half way point, despite being faster. Have you played 100 games and picked the best 10? Or can you usually run around among enemies without taking damage?

[Alistair Winter]

You can get a perfect storm with a light mech and come out with some glorious results. But that video could easily have ended at 1:30, when you park up behind a Stalker, and stand still with your back to the enemy for just a few seconds. Sometimes, choices like that pay off nicely in a light mech. But sometimes, the enemy team has gauss / ppc sniper ready to end your life when you make calls like that.

Light mech pilots are also fairly dependent on exploiting existing situations on the battlefield, instead of creating useful situations. If everyone's busy in a brawl, you can use that. If the enemy has isolated mechs, you can use that. But light mechs rely much more on their teammates doing the right thing or the enemy doing the wrong thing, compared to heavy and assault mechs.

That's my experience anyway.

[FDJustin]

Definitely how you play. And how your team-mates play. And what you can afford.

I can often break 200 damage on my FS9-S. Best I got was... Maybe 350. My other two variants, FS9-H and FS9-K hover around 100 damage a match. The FS9-S is elited, and has a standard 250 engine. The other two are still running stock engines, and haven't got any elite skills unlocked yet.

It might be better for a new player who's set on playing a light, to pick something with a faster engine stock (but probably not the locust) since it's going to be a long time to afford better weapons, DHS, endo-steel and a four and a half million cbill engine on top... Assuming you can restrain yourself to just one chasis in the meantime.

[Lykaon]

Greyboots, on 01 August 2014 - 11:10 PM, said:

Oddly enough, this isn't a troll post!



Yes, this mech is running both arty and air strikes BUT the arty strike in the video missed completely (I only really dropped it to make mechs moving to back others up go away) and the air strike only hit the Stalker. Hardly resounding damage. Otherwise it's just got a capture accelerator in it. Some of the highest scores in the video were done without arty/air strikes too. The top scoring match (188k in earnings before the hero mech bonus w/ 5 kills) was before it was fully trained too.

The key factor here is simple. Light mechs are often more about DRIVING than shooting. About watching the battlefield rather than just attacking. When something is focused on someone else? Run in and go through it's back. Most people usually have sod all rear armour so your relatively light weaponry makes for quick kills and so on.

Don't just jump into lights and think you're going to be great at it. Chances are that you won't be very good to start with but after a while? Well, the video shows a pretty nasty 35 tons.

Persevere though. It's some of the best fun on offer in MWO.

You do know what you're doing and folks should listen to your advise (it is more about observing timing and driving than shooting when using a light mech)

We do differ in opinion on one subject.I do recommend any player who is serious about getting good at mechwarrior to pilot a light.Learning timing,observation and battlefield awareness are critical to being good at MWo.These skills translate to every aspect of mech combat.Just because your mech has 50+ tons of guns doesn't mean you will know where to be what to shoot at and where to aim.


Not sure if this vid was typical for your technique but I do have a few tips for improving on an already solid performance.

frequently you don't lock onto targets and just hose em down.Lock the target and get the crit data and pinpoint thin armor.Try using the target info gathering module for quick readouts.

Don't stop to get the back shot.Speed is life.You stopped to line up a back shot on the Stalker with several enemy mechs capable of firing on you.It was luck or enemy incompitence that you didn't get legged then.

Use the new armlock toggle option.During almost the entire fight you really didn't need the arm reticule seperated from the machine guns in the torso.In a couple of instances you seemed to intentonaly wiggle the laser reticule around spreading the damage and in a couple of instances this resulted in friendly fire.Concentrated damage is efficient damage.

[Cyborne Elemental]

Hate to say it, but generally speaking lights still have alot of hitregistry issues which is mostly why they're still viable.

They're a little bit less susceptible to missle fire which is good, but they're still only useful in a group.

A funny thing though, you can totally disrupt or redirect the enemy team with a single light, all the enemy has to do is see you, and they'll almost always B-line to where you are/were, can be handy to lure the chasers into a nice trap ot getting them to turn their back on your teamates to get some nice rear kills.

And yeah, Ember is still OP

You've got the equivalent of a 180 meter AC-10 for 2 tons + w/e ammo, with no heat, so its pretty much a nonstop wrecking machine with high crit damage chances.

Edited by Mister D, 02 August 2014 - 03:50 AM.

[John1352]

Mister D, on 02 August 2014 - 03:48 AM, said:

Hate to say it, but generally speaking lights still have alot of hitregistry issues which is mostly why they're still viable.

They're a little bit less susceptible to missle fire which is good, but they're still only useful in a group.

A funny thing though, you can totally disrupt or redirect the enemy team with a single light, all the enemy has to do is see you, and they'll almost always B-line to where you are/were, can be handy to lure the chasers into a nice trap ot getting them to turn their back on your teamates to get some nice rear kills.

And yeah, Ember is still OP

You've got the equivalent of a 180 meter AC-10 for 2 tons + w/e ammo, with no heat, so its pretty much a nonstop wrecking machine with high crit damage chances.

I'm not convinced there are hitreg issues, I know if I look closely when I'm trying to shoot a spider, commando or locust, I am actually missing the majority of the time (because they are so tiny).

[Cest7]

Ember, built off the bugged spider chassis. Confirmed still viable, thanks OP.

[FDJustin]

There is a thread out there somewhere that shows the spider actually does have a broken hitbox.

And by broken, I mean you can hit it several pixels outside of it's model. You can go to D7 in the hpg manifold testing grounds and examine one closely, and see for yourself.

I keep hearing that the firestarter has broken hitboxes, but... I'm not so sure. Any that I fight against don't seem to be any harder to hit than anyone else. I certainly eat PPC's or Gauz shots, well placed AC shots, etc.

With enough distance, it's pretty easy to dodge PPC shots...

Edited by FDJustin, 02 August 2014 - 04:17 AM.

[El Bandito]

I blame the Clans for the gradual disappearance of Lights.

[meteorol]

Just out of curiosity:

is there any reason why you shake your crosshair all over the enemy mech, spreading your damage from arm to arm, making it rather inefficient?

There are several occasions in this video where you could put a clean beam into the enemy mech, but purposely (atleast it looks like that) "shaked" the crosshair all over the whole mech (or even two mechs). It really looks like you do this on purpose, hence the question.

Edited by meteorol, 02 August 2014 - 04:47 AM.

[dario03]

Being able to do good sometimes still doesn't make it fine that lights take to much leg damage (percentage wise more than mediums and heavies), and when legged are as slow as some legged assault mechs. Oh and streaks bypassing their one strength.

Oh and you can check my past broadcast on Twitch if you want to see some more Ember play. Shameless self plug

[Jacobei]

Resent changes to light mechs limited many of the playing styles. It did not totally nerf them but greatly limited them. It was a combination of little changes compounded. I agree with the OP.

The OP however is using hero mech Ember - So I take it with 2 grains of salt! and sprinkles. It would not bug me other then he calls out how he THINKS its not pay2win but really knows its also a crutch to add the unskilled/less skilled.

My Spider Spitfire MGer is a death trap now as success rates drop below reasonable levels due to pay2win tactics - PGI

[Greyboots]

Lykaon, on 02 August 2014 - 03:47 AM, said:

We do differ in opinion on one subject.I do recommend any player who is serious about getting good at mechwarrior to pilot a light.Learning timing,observation and battlefield awareness are critical to being good at MWo.These skills translate to every aspect of mech combat.Just because your mech has 50+ tons of guns doesn't mean you will know where to be what to shoot at and where to aim.

Not sure if this vid was typical for your technique but I do have a few tips for improving on an already solid performance.

frequently you don't lock onto targets and just hose em down.Lock the target and get the crit data and pinpoint thin armor.Try using the target info gathering module for quick readouts.

Don't stop to get the back shot.Speed is life.You stopped to line up a back shot on the Stalker with several enemy mechs capable of firing on you.It was luck or enemy incompitence that you didn't get legged then.

Use the new armlock toggle option.During almost the entire fight you really didn't need the arm reticule seperated from the machine guns in the torso.In a couple of instances you seemed to intentonaly wiggle the laser reticule around spreading the damage and in a couple of instances this resulted in friendly fire.Concentrated damage is efficient damage.

I agree with absolutely everything you say. Thanks for the advice .

Alistair Winter, on 02 August 2014 - 03:43 AM, said:

You can get a perfect storm with a light mech and come out with some glorious results. But that video could easily have ended at 1:30, when you park up behind a Stalker, and stand still with your back to the enemy for just a few seconds. Sometimes, choices like that pay off nicely in a light mech. But sometimes, the enemy team has gauss / ppc sniper ready to end your life when you make calls like that.

Light mech pilots are also fairly dependent on exploiting existing situations on the battlefield, instead of creating useful situations. If everyone's busy in a brawl, you can use that. If the enemy has isolated mechs, you can use that. But light mechs rely much more on their teammates doing the right thing or the enemy doing the wrong thing, compared to heavy and assault mechs.

That's my experience anyway.

I agree with you too, mostly.

BUT (isn't there always a but?) I suppose I should explain the part I disagree with and why. It cost me 80k cBills to be able to stand behind the stalker like that.

My first run at the group there was the Stalker, a Banshee (I think it was) and something else behind it. The first strafe I dropped an arty strike on the ship behind the 2 assaults to empty the area.

The second strafing run I dropped the air strike which would hit the two assaults and also the area behind them just to reinforce the fact that standing there was a bad idea.

The Stalker hunkered down behind the rock and I stopped behind him to drive him out, to give him a bit of a scare and force him into moving, not to kill him.
Essentially I was clearing the area and making the stalker an easy target. YES, stopping behind it like that was a risk but if I trade a 35 ton mech for an enemy assault I figger it's a pretty good trade all things considered. Yes, I sometimes die doing it but if it works it's all worth it.

John1352, on 02 August 2014 - 03:43 AM, said:

I don't run Firestarters, but I know for certain if I tried that in my Jenner I'd usually lose my CT before the half way point, despite being faster. Have you played 100 games and picked the best 10? Or can you usually run around among enemies without taking damage?

That first video was from about 18 games from memory, I didn't count. And yes, I live far longer than the average light pilot but there's certainly others who do even better than I do. Don't take silly risks, stay close to something that will break LoS and lose missile locks and IF you want to stand in the open do it at longer ranges where weapons are losing damage for being beyond optimal range.

Jenners... You have to be VERY careful because a LOT of LRMs will find your centre torso. It's just the design of the mech; with that long body and missiles coming from above just means you're particularly susceptible to them. This is why my Jenner is my spotter/scout which I normally play like this instead:

[El Bandito]

sneeking, on 02 August 2014 - 04:28 AM, said:

no clans have nothing to do with it, 98% of my time is spent in lights and players like myself will attack clanners without hesitation.

And then you die...

[Greyboots]

meteorol, on 02 August 2014 - 04:26 AM, said:

Just out of curiosity:

is there any reason why you shake your crosshair all over the enemy mech, spreading your damage from arm to arm, making it rather inefficient?

There are several occasions in this video where you could put a clean beam into the enemy mech, but purposely (atleast it looks like that) "shaked" the crosshair all over the whole mech (or even two mechs). It really looks like you do this on purpose, hence the question.

Yeah, my mouse mat came with my shiny new preorder box of Guild Wars Factions so it's about 12 years old and in desperate need of replacement. It was OK (except for the cigarette burn hole a friend put in it by accident) till I bought a new mouse and now it can be a bit finnikey. Sometimes I have a lot of fine aiming control, sometimes I don't. If I don't I have to give it a wiggle to get it back. Which has created a bad habit I need to get out of.

After I get a new mouse mat.

dario03, on 02 August 2014 - 04:28 AM, said:

Being able to do good sometimes still doesn't make it fine that lights take to much leg damage (percentage wise more than mediums and heavies), and when legged are as slow as some legged assault mechs. Oh and streaks bypassing their one strength.

This is probably because that's what people aim for in lights so it's sort of to be expected.

And yes, streak boats are the bane of my existence as a light. It's why I take a Firestarter 9S with twin ams in light swarms (or a Commando 2D with ECM, you just sit further back than the main swarm so your ECM doesn't get canned by BAP).

Jacobei, on 02 August 2014 - 05:26 AM, said:

The OP however is using hero mech Ember - So I take it with 2 grains of salt! and sprinkles. It would not bug me other then he calls out how he THINKS its not pay2win but really knows its also a crutch to add the unskilled/less skilled.

FS9H video now included, trained only to Basic for your viewing pleasure.

The Hero mechs I have AREN'T as OP as most free to play players think btw. At least the Ember, Arrow and Firebrand. The Firebrand in particular is nothing special. A nice alternative with the energy hardpoints in the arms but certainly nothing special. The Arrow is nice but I like jumpy blackjacks and none of the stock ones have a CT weapon mount (I got sick of being zombied in BJs). I don't think the Arrow will be for everyone though.

Mostly I just bought them for the hero bonus to tell the honest truth.

Edited by Greyboots, 02 August 2014 - 06:42 AM.

[El Bandito]

sneeking, on 02 August 2014 - 06:38 AM, said:

bring any clan mech you like and face me in huginn. I might die but there is more chance you will

I don't like to P2W, so there is no Clan mech in my garage. I'll face you with my current ride--SRM A1.

Edited by El Bandito, 02 August 2014 - 06:41 AM.