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Stupid Mech Tricks

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#1 Saiphas Cain

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Posted 21 November 2014 - 09:31 AM

We've had threads with general advice, but player psychology and niche application threads are somewhat lacking. I wanted to start a thread for odd advice that will trip up opponents and shift the odds in your favor in ways that good reflexes and and experience don't.



- If you sneak up on a target and your team has LRM's, Target and spot your victim and wait for the LRM's to begin impacting before opening fire on their rear CT. Often you can have them cored before they realize what's happening due to screen shake and view obstruction.

- If you do take a flamer for your brawler, mount it off center and aim for the targets cockpit. this will prevent obscuring your view too much while blinding your target. You'll take return fire allright, but it won't be aimed at anything specific.

- Autocannons are heavy but generate screen shake. Everyone hates screen shake. Do unto others.

- If your mech has one or two ballistic slots and is short on tonnage don't waste time with machine guns. Do something else and ignore the slots. If you have three or more, then machine guns become humorously viable on brawler builds, as a secondary weapon, such as this. http://mwo.smurfy-ne...68046d9b7b8e23a

- If you're going with streaks, mount a beagle probe. If you can't fit a probe, skip the streaks. You can't fire without lock and a single ECM will ruin your day.

- If you're running a fast mech with no lock requiring weapons, skip the beagle in general. Beagle probes announce your presence by scrambling enemy ECM and give away your element of surprise. Dead mechs don't fire back anyway and better to get a rear torso alpha if you can. ( this may change in a future patch, if you can disable the beagle, disregard )

- Very short mechs can run under the ramps on HPG station. The Raven is too tall to do thus but Locusts, commando's and the like can. You can take cover from LRM's there, and you often get free shots on unwary foes. Don't linger though, or you'll be legged in return.

- If you have a hunch, or your arms aren't quite jointed the right way, deploy on the flank matching that side. Most rocks don't have completely vertical sides and you can expose far less of your mech, on that select side, to fire and fade. Dual ERLL Ravens, Hunchbacks, Shadowhawks, etc are good for this. Even if you're on the wrong flank by necessity, try to deploy on that side of a local rock spire ( like on Canyon Network ).

- Group weapons based on target lead time, or firing location, but not both. You want to keep your firing groups to a minimum but still be versatile. Streaks can be paired with lasers because they home and don't need lead time but lasers shouldn't be paired with other missiles or guns. On monolithic, low slung designs like Cataphracts it's better to split your weapons into left and right side triggers so you're not wasting ammo on rocks and don't need to expose your entire front.
- Additionally, if you do pair up SSRM's with other weapons, remember to tap the fire button rather than holding it. If you fire lasers on that group before achieving missile lock, the missiles will not fire until you release the button and hit it again.

- If your mech has missile doors, open them at the beginning of the match and don't close them unless you run out of ammunition. The firing delay in waiting for the doors to open and close will get you killed far worse than the slight loss of durability from taking hits on open doors.

Edited by Saiphas Cain, 21 November 2014 - 09:41 AM.


#2 Gauvan

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Posted 21 November 2014 - 09:40 AM

Nice set of tips. If I may offer one of my own:

- Night vision mode lets you see through heavy smoke, which is useful in places like the caldera on Caustic.

#3 Saiphas Cain

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Posted 21 November 2014 - 09:57 AM

Please do! I don't have any monopoly on this. I also don't usually mess with special vision modes on most maps so seeing through smoke is good info!

#4 InspectorG

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Posted 21 November 2014 - 10:13 AM

-For the light pilots. Certain Assaults can be jumped upon and 'ridden'. You can do this to avoid detection or evade retaliation.
Lights with arms weapons may be able to shoot down...
Lots of fun, but dont let his allies see you do this.

-Its sometimes better to go off the side of a ramp instead of reversing back down it. It may also be quicker. It also kees you from running into the scrub teammate who decided to use you as a shield.
Im pretty sure lights down take leg damage from falling from the ramps in the middle of HPG(short fall)

-zig-zag up and down inclines if you have trouble going straight up them.

-Certain lights going near full speed can use quick taps on the jumpjets to turn tighter OR a small jump to spread damage OR to stop faster.
Conversely, that FS flying all around zapping you? Dont shoot him in the air, shoot him as soon as his legs touch the ground, there will be a slight pause in his movement.

-A fast light trying to get away or run across the field of fire? Dont run in a straight line and dont run at the same speed all the time. I have momentarily layed of the throttle for.5-1 sec only to see a shell fly right past my face.

-More of a Pug problem, but are your teammates camping all facing the same way not paying attention?
Shoot a laser at an area you want them to look at. Sometimes you can herd cats this way...with laserpointers.

#5 YueFei

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Posted 22 November 2014 - 06:57 AM

If you go up against enemies who leg you, be sure to pivot the *destroyed* leg to face toward the enemy, so it can shield the one remaining GOOD leg!

Also, when legged, try to cut throttle to ZERO just before you anticipate that the enemy will shoot. Otherwise, even when keeping the dead leg facing the enemy, if you are not at zero throttle, the one remaining good leg sometimes drags out in front of the bad leg, exposing itself for the enemy to hit. By cutting throttle to zero you will scissor your legs together, and the bad leg will shield the good one, at least from 1 angle.

Bunny hop with jump jets if you've got them.

You're still screwed if the enemy makes a concerted push and multiple enemies swarm you and get different angles, but this at least buys you some more time. And it buys your teammates more time to come to your rescue.

#6 3xnihilo

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Posted 22 November 2014 - 07:08 AM

Arty/Air Strikes come from the sky (Duh). . . so if you can get under the enemy, say the party deck on Crimson, you can drop an arty on yourself and it will land on the enemies above you.

InspectorG: I have never thought of using "laser pointers" before, but good advice. Whenever someone shoots in a direction everyone looks that way :)

#7 Alaskan Nobody

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Posted 22 November 2014 - 09:33 AM

View PostSaiphas Cain, on 21 November 2014 - 09:31 AM, said:

- Very short mechs can run under the ramps on HPG station. The Raven is too tall to do thus.....

The Raven CAN - but you have to hit it at just the right angle

#8 happy mech

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Posted 23 November 2014 - 05:30 AM

not sure whether these are tricks

learn the key to show your teammates (names near the triangles, "show target overlay"), especially at start of the match, check where your lances are and group up (for example near assaults)

blue circle icon is a mech shielded by ecm
three bars icon is a mech being disrupted by ecm
three diagonal missiles icon is a mech under lrm fire
radio beacon icon is a narced mech
ecm text icon is a mech with ecm active
diagonal crossed ecm icon is a mech with ecm disabled (by bap, ecm)
empty triangle is a mech you see
full triangle is a mech someone has targeted
blue icons are for team, red icons are for enemy

stick with you ecm mechs
if you see a friendly mech being disrupted (or you have the "low signal" on your minimap), there is an enemy ecm mech or more
if you have an ecm, cover your teammates, especially those being targeted by lrms
if you are shielded by ecm but still getting lrmed, check for uav


heat
you should always do something useful with the heat dissipation, do not be idle, fire, retreat, cool down, fire, stay with your team
if there is a close range fight, use mgs, acs and srms, lasers only on if need that last hit
it is good to have a weapon group where you have the lasers on chainfire

edit: forgot to add, you can fire lrms where your torso crosshair points, vs shut down targets or if need to

Edited by happy mech, 23 November 2014 - 05:50 AM.


#9 ExoForce

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Posted 23 November 2014 - 06:24 AM

HPG Manifold. If I am fast I will first go to arena entrance door (?). If I see enemy waiting and targeting my team entry point I will fire lasers in front of my team to create laser blocade for them. If my teammates are smart, they will turn to other side of the entrance.

Viable on other maps, too.

#10 Tim East

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Posted 23 November 2014 - 10:47 AM

View PostYueFei, on 22 November 2014 - 06:57 AM, said:

If you go up against enemies who leg you, be sure to pivot the *destroyed* leg to face toward the enemy, so it can shield the one remaining GOOD leg!

Also, when legged, try to cut throttle to ZERO just before you anticipate that the enemy will shoot. Otherwise, even when keeping the dead leg facing the enemy, if you are not at zero throttle, the one remaining good leg sometimes drags out in front of the bad leg, exposing itself for the enemy to hit. By cutting throttle to zero you will scissor your legs together, and the bad leg will shield the good one, at least from 1 angle.


I killed a Stormcrow once in a Locust using this technique. It was hilarious.

Also funny to do? Get behind an enemy that your team is shooting and stand there so they can't back up. Yeah, you eat some damage, but they eat way more.

In fact, using enemies as shields against THEIR team's fire is entertaining as well. Always hilarious to see someone on the other team get TK'd because everybody wants to get the cookie.

Edited by Tim East, 23 November 2014 - 10:50 AM.


#11 Hamish McPiton

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Posted 23 November 2014 - 11:00 AM

The "don't run in a straight line toward or away the enemy in a light" is 100% right, as is the use of lasers as "hey - look over here" pointers.
I don't know how many times I've insta-killed lights when they ran straight at or away from me since I got my new computer.
When I was getting swarmed by lights back in the low fps computer days I couldn't hit them at all - a couple of lasers over my team mates heads usually got their attention to help me.
It's hard to get PuGs to do any real technical tactics, but in groups we've used AFKs or Disco's as light bait - shut down a Shadowhawk or Griffin Streakboat behind cover and a couple of lights stay close by out of sight until the "hey - easy AFK kill" comes running in - hilarious.

If I'm the last one on my team and still mobile I like to rush the most injured and if I can't kill them outright I circle behind them, about half the time they either die from my fire and/or get TK'd for their trouble.

Edited by Hamish McPiton, 23 November 2014 - 11:03 AM.


#12 Void Angel

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Posted 23 November 2014 - 11:09 AM

In the spirit of giving, consider this: very broad 'mechs can use their hardpoint placement to advantage. I've killed 'Mechs around corners with my Atlas' SRMs that were actually not visible to my pilot's POV.

Hamish, if you have an arm-mounted Medium Laser, it is actually more effective to pan it rapidly across teammates who are not paying attention. If you pan the laser fast enough, it does no damage to the enemy 'mech, yet still triggers damage alarms - and the corresponding directional cues.

Finally, LRMs - particularly arm-mounted LRMs - can be fired around corners! LRMs home in on their target, but their initial trajectory is determined by the point of aim corresponding to the appropriate targeting reticle (arm and/or torso.) If you use a teammate or UAV to gain lock on an enemy you can't see, slapping your point of aim to the side, firing, and then moving back to maintain the lock will allow you to fire around some obstacles. Also be aware of the location of your launchers. High-mounted LRMs can clear obstacles that your waist-level arm launchers can't avoid.

#13 RazorbeastFXK3

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Posted 23 November 2014 - 11:21 AM

Good advice that many have slip from their train of thought when engaged in battle.

Another one would be "If you have a chance to cool down while attacking someone and ducking behind cover, take the advantage to cool down before striking again so you don't overheat and shutdown while exposed." More than once I've spectated someone on a hot map and they'll continuously pop out from cover while their internal heat is over 50% then they shut down before they can get back behind cover. Few take heed while others say "Shut up.. I know what I'm doing."

#14 MechWarrior679696

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Posted 23 November 2014 - 04:33 PM

Mr. Huge's Scumbag's Guide to MWO

- Good, Good... Let The Hate Flow Through You!
Start every match with a mindset of utter resentment and disgust. Consider each and every one on the opposing team as a personal enemy and object of hatred, and your teammates at best as tools and disposable assets, and at worst as obstacles in your way. Psych yourself up; you have to want not just to have a match, not just to roll over the opposition, but to stomp all over their faces when they're lying down. That's how you get the highest damage output to damage taken ratio. Consider every "cheap" tactic (oh, and naturally, you don't use "cheap" tactics, wink wink, nudge nudge) on part of the enemy or mistake on part of your team as a personal insult, and use it to fuel your anger and as an incitement to either simply give them a beatdown as a reward or to one-up them. Always be ready to take it one step further. And if necessary and you're that kind of person, keep a spare keyboard around.

- Give Me The Specifics
Build your mech according to some very clean-cut pre-determined goals and standards, and try and focus on simplicity and a very focused combat role first. This will tend to give you some clear fundamental strengths which you can then abuse to the max in-game while exploring the facets of the build and what could possibly be done better. Practically, this means min-maxing your use of Quirks, keeping your weapons loadout as simple as possible and ammo-mixing to an absolute minimum, and squeezing everything you can out of every last slot and fraction of a ton in the garage. Don't slap on more jump jets than you certainly must, keep ammo tonnage to a minimum and possibly replace it with a laser for lower vulnerability, do not consider AMS a necessary for all mechs and do not slap on Active Probes on anything that doesn't have missiles, etc.

- It's Dangerous To Go Unoptimized: Don't Take These
There are certain modules, particularly weapon modules and engines, that are especially good and come with particular perks, while others should be considered just so much clutter. For instance, a lot of XL engines are only so much garage scrap as they weigh precisely the same as the next step up. The XL300 should be considered a kind of "holy grail" of XL engines, as it marks the last engine where the ratings stop increasing in steady half-ton increments, as it is coincidentally the first engine which can mount double internal heatsinks, and it is capable of producing a fair turn of speed in a massive portion of all available chassis. Similarly, whenever you think of using an AC/10... don't. Not unless your mech has some insane quirks for it. The LB10-X is lighter, has more utility, gets the same amount of shots/ton and is just plainly a better weapon. The only time you ever want the AC/10 is to deal pinpoint damage outside of 400m. And with its shell speed, it might easily miss, and it reaches to 450m before damage starts to drop. See the point? Similarly, whenever possible, equip the UAC/5 instead of the standard AC/5. Adjust your tactics and rely on the greatly increased burst damage for hit-and-run action. If range is not a problem, use Small Pulse Lasers instead of MLs, as they will be able to hit smaller targets for more consistent damage and keep up a higher DPS. If you have a multitude of launchers and tubes, use many small ones to increase your reload time; even with Artemis tonnage, it's way better to have 2xLRM5 rather than a single LRM10, and without Artemis the tonnage-to-tubes ratio never catches up, making it 2 tons cheaper to have 4xLRM5s than a single LRM20. And do not underestimate the power of Streaks, which on IS mechs get ridiculous ammo economy and don't have to waste tonnage on Artemis.

- Modular Solution
In the current meta, the Radar Deprivation and Seismic Sensor modules are Gods. Unless you are going for a very particular build, always equip one of these. The Advanced Zoom module also grants you enormous utility, although not the same cash as the Seismic, and the Target Decay module is gold when someone has been fool enough not to equip Radar Deprivation. And always, always bring a UAV.

- It's Easy Being Green
Don't paint your mech like you let Liberace loose on it. There's no "camo value" here; mech camouflage is limited to texture color. If you paint your mech a glaring neon pink, you will get spotted and Gaussed in the face first on your team. Buy some blacks and greens out of the military color palette and apply these to all your machines; statistically, given the mech textures, the maps and their color palettes, you are best off with going with "Camo Dark Green", "Camo Dark Brown" or "Phranken Black".

- Shun The Unfavored
There are certain chassis that are not only favored by the current meta with quirks, weapon types, etc. but that also have particular strong points and favorable models, such as the Centurion with its left shield arm, the Jagermech and Battlemaster with their high weapon mounts, the Hunchback with both high weapon mounts and insane cooldown quirks, etc. Specialize in these and use them to the max, and utterly disregard mechs that do not enjoy some very particular perks such as these. The Cataphract 4X comes to mind; low-slung weapon arms, broad torso, big cockpit, a max 255 engine rating on a 75-ton mech, and low-end quirks intended for AC/5s? Get out!

- This Is Not Boxing
The last thing you want to be doing in MWO is fighting in your own weight class, and certainly not against someone in the same model of mech. Depending on your weapons loadout, you may be geared toward fighting some very specific targets or with some specific tactics, but as a rule you do not want to go toe-to-toe with a mech quite similar to your own. The balanced matchup will of course determine who is most skilled and manliest, but you'll likely be slugging it out for a long time and deal somewhere approaching equal damage to each other. Meaning that you'll have spent a whole lot of time and armor on fighting a costly battle of attrition for just one chancy kill. This is pointless; instead, seek out enemies that you have some marked advantage over, be it speed, weapon range envelope, alpha strike, etc. and then abuse that advantage to no end.


- On The Down Low
The same rules apply for this game as for real-life personal weapons; if you're not an exceptional shot and also have setup time, keep your aim low. A bullet flying over someone's head is wasted, whereas a body shot may not be lethal but it's damn well likely to hurt like a female dog and cause some damage. If you have burst-fire ballistics or several fast-firing ones, don't be afraid to spray and pray. It's damage dealt, and a bit of shake to keep the enemy from firing back at your team.

- What Was That?
Even though it's often masked by other things going on, don't forget that there is another way to know if you're under threat or not; when an enemy locks you, there is a slight flash inside your cockpit and a very minute electronic whizzing noise, pitching up toward the end if you've been acquired and down if they've lost lock. Watch out for it and watch your map position to try and determine the enemy's location and angle of approach.

- Flicker Jabs Are Still Hits
Try to mount at least one laser or other weapon with hitscan or cluster-shot ability. Even the tiniest amount of damage dealt to an enemy mech will grant you an assist and possibly some flanking and hit-and-run points as well. Shamelessly exploit this by doing hit-and-run attacks on a multitude of targets. It may also help your team by acting as a distraction.

- The Bigger They Are, The Stupider They Look When They Trip
People aiming for the legs of Assault-class mechs are a rare sight; this is a sign of general stupidity. There are no mechs so vulnerable as Assaults when they have been rendered virtually immobile, as they tend not to have very good torso twisting capabilities and can easily get hacked to pieces from behind by crit-hunting fast Mediums and Lights. And Assault pilots are also nearly as likely as most others to store ammo in their legs. If given the slightest opportunity, try to cripple Battlemaster or Stalker missile boats this way.

- Don't Blink Or You'll Miss It
If you are a Light or fast Medium pilot, and it's the start of the game, make sure to lock onto one target and then track and hound them as utterly long as possible. You'll be giving all the LRM boats on your team a sure target, and simple-minded as they are they will follow your trace and land all that fire on that one target. Use the time and impact shake distraction to line up a crit shot on exposed modules; your purpose isn't to give the boats the damage, but to eliminate that one mech to tilt the statistics in your favor.

- Mr. Beerbelly, Get These Mutts Away From Me
Similarly, if it's the start of the game, whatever you do, don't move out of the central clump of your team and absolutely do not get locked up by one of the aforementioned fast lights and mediums. They are opportunists and are never going to let you go, and since LRM spam rules the day, you'll get focused and stripped faster than a Merc on the wrong side of the tracks in Detroit.

- Expecting Local Showers, Bring Umbrella And Shotgun
Speaking of LRM spam, there is one thing you want to do regardless of what weight class you're in or what weapons you're packing; at every opportunity, lock up and try not to lose any LRM boats. Turn your attention to them, and try to direct your team to do the same, as their destruction must be given the highest priority, aside from extreme cases of targets of opportunity. LRM mechs are favored greatly by the current meta, and can easily project extreme firepower with accuracy over huge distances, and later avoid the steamroll of more powerful direct-fire mechs with support, making them very valuable in the long term. Also, the people playing them are invariably the sort who should be punished, making it a twofer.

- First To Flinch Loses
If you're standing and giving fire on an enemy, and a teammate decides to place himself between you and the target, then absolutely do not stop firing unless you yourself are taking severe damage and he is clearly trying to give you cover. This holds particularly true if the enemy in question has modules in the orange and red and you are about to get a kill, or when the teammate in question is walking around like a headless chicken. Currently, you only get penalized for teamkills, not team damage, and these people have to learn that you at least do not take their ****. Even should you happen to take him out, 10,000 c-bills is a cheap price for knowing you've done the world a small service and ruined the game for someone who clearly deserves it. A spaced-out firing line in the right situations distributes the effect of weapons which cluster, and lets all mechs fire on the same target; this is effective. Mechs lining up before you in order to steal a kill though, are effectively shielding the enemy and forcing their teammates to re-position and re-train their weapons; this is not effective.

- Can't Take The Heat
Of course taking opportunity of someone who's overheated and doesn't understand the Override is a great idea, particularly if we're dealing with an Assault mech here. But this holds doubly true for when you're firing some heat-inducing weapon, such as flamers. By torching the shut-down enemy, you can keep heating him up and thus drag out the pain of that restart and leave him cooking hotter the moment he comes back up. Gather up and try and make him panic so that on restart he immediately lets rip another big alpha and promptly goes limp again.

- It's Not Retreat, It's Tactical Withdrawal
Kipling said "It's ruin to run from a fight". Well, there are no disciplinary actions or court martials here, so don't be afraid of turning if the fight goes against you. A good sense of map awareness helps if you're too slow to actually outrun the enemy, so you can rely on your armor and torso twisting while backing up and returning fire. Use teammates for cover, to spare you the damage and force them into the mix, particularly if they happen to be Assault mechs. Fall back to the next piece of cover, then start laying suppressive fire. And if you're last on your team and you're playing Assault, and you can't kill yourself, then draw them toward your base to be distracted by turrets while you find somewhere to lay down a big alpha. This is particularly important if you're being chased by crit-hunting light mechs; the turrets are generally a much bigger threat to them, and they tend to be the kind of scumbags who shouldn't survive the end of the match.

Edited by Mr Huge, 25 November 2014 - 05:49 AM.


#15 Tim East

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Posted 24 November 2014 - 11:42 PM

Mostly good advice, though I disagree with the stance on active probes on non-missile mechs. I feel like negating an ECM and watching as missiles rain down from my allies is sufficient validation of that piece of equipment's usefulness.

Very good call on the SPLs though. I've found them to be far more effective than MLs for the same tonnage and less heat.

One final note, I'm pretty sure PPCs don't apply heat to the enemy, which would make the statement that you can use them to increase the time to restart on shutdown mechs false.

#16 MechWarrior679696

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Posted 25 November 2014 - 05:30 AM

It's really meant to be partly in jest, since it (and my whole play philosophy) is kind of also a recipe for playing like the most ruthless, unfriendly ******* you can be. I've got loads more tips that are more like the "tricks" this thread is about, but mostly what it boils down to is "throw your conscience out the window, abandon the concept of fun, and no holds barred".

And I wasn't aware that they'd removed the PPC heat on impact mechanic. That sucks. All the more reason to put in sensor/lock disruption then.

As for not mounting BAPs on direct-fire mechs, my reasoning is; the mechs on which it would be valuable, i.e. those that can cover much ground and thus have a fair turn of speed, are all down in the lower weight classes and pressed for tonnage. 1.5 tons and 2 slots may not seem much, but it can make a critical difference between a better weapon or a worse one. And on larger mechs where you have the tonnage to spare, you can't cover that ground and you should have the direct-fire capabilities to take him out directly using good aim and vision filters.

Edited by Mr Huge, 25 November 2014 - 05:46 AM.


#17 Just wanna play

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Posted 25 November 2014 - 05:57 AM

View PostInspectorG, on 21 November 2014 - 10:13 AM, said:

-More of a Pug problem, but are your teammates camping all facing the same way not paying attention?
Shoot a laser at an area you want them to look at. Sometimes you can herd cats this way...with laserpointers.


:lol: LOL XD


heres my tip: Even if the team is stupid, work with them. Don't be that guy that complains the team is an idiot for pushing and runs away in his dire wolf. Its not like pugs will listen just work with what ya got.

Edited by Just wanna play, 25 November 2014 - 06:01 AM.


#18 Nightshade24

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Posted 25 November 2014 - 06:49 AM

View PostMr Huge, on 25 November 2014 - 05:30 AM, said:

It's really meant to be partly in jest, since it (and my whole play philosophy) is kind of also a recipe for playing like the most ruthless, unfriendly ******* you can be. I've got loads more tips that are more like the "tricks" this thread is about, but mostly what it boils down to is "throw your conscience out the window, abandon the concept of fun, and no holds barred".

And I wasn't aware that they'd removed the PPC heat on impact mechanic. That sucks. All the more reason to put in sensor/lock disruption then.

As for not mounting BAPs on direct-fire mechs, my reasoning is; the mechs on which it would be valuable, i.e. those that can cover much ground and thus have a fair turn of speed, are all down in the lower weight classes and pressed for tonnage. 1.5 tons and 2 slots may not seem much, but it can make a critical difference between a better weapon or a worse one. And on larger mechs where you have the tonnage to spare, you can't cover that ground and you should have the direct-fire capabilities to take him out directly using good aim and vision filters.


Well... in a way. I think putting a BAP on a larger mech could be fine... ie heavy...

Or mostly any Clan mech (smaller and lighter)

#19 3xnihilo

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Posted 25 November 2014 - 06:57 AM

View PostJust wanna play, on 25 November 2014 - 05:57 AM, said:


:lol: LOL XD


heres my tip: Even if the team is stupid, work with them. Don't be that guy that complains the team is an idiot for pushing and runs away in his dire wolf. Its not like pugs will listen just work with what ya got.


Yes, A bad tactic done cohesively beats the other team of pugs running around aimlessly.

#20 3xnihilo

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Posted 25 November 2014 - 07:04 AM

Also, spiders are the perfect non-missile mech for mounting BAP. I even fit one on my 5d along side the ecm. Just means you don't run jj overload.





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