33 replies to this topic

[Quicksilver Aberration]

As many arguments about how grinding the IS mechs is nowhere near the amount of fun as Clan Omnimechs, it got me thinking, why weren't all mechs designed like the clans?

So imagine this, rather than requiring 3 variants per chassis to actually exist, all mechs added to the game comprised of one variant which started with the "Prime" sections and allowed you to purchase others to mix and match you mech like a special Frankenmech (technically different parts had different internal/armor types, blah blah blah, killjoys). So rather than being required to grind 3 chassis where you may only like one, you have to spend time grinding one mech and can play it however you want. This includes the ability to customize the engine like you are now so it wouldn't be limited like omnimechs. Hero pods still could've been sold as a 'package.' As for the CT being tied to variant, honestly I'd love to see that done away with considering I suggest one master variant.

Obviously this is all too late and never gonna happen, but its fun to pretend sometimes.....

Honestly I would say you'd have to unlock omnimechs as well, just so some of them aren't DOA like the Badder or borderline like the Cute Fox but that's a whole other topic.

On a side note, why did they not give empty torso/arms quirks for the omnipods like damage reduction or something like that to at least make them seem somewhat attractive in bothering to purchase?

Edited by majora incarnate, 04 August 2014 - 01:02 AM.

[Ryvucz]

Because it's no canon.

[Alistair Winter]

Ryvucz, on 03 August 2014 - 11:39 PM, said:

Because it's no canon.

And the thread is over. GG guys. Well played, everyone.

But seriously, even with all their odd choices and short-comings, I will give PGI credit for this:
They do at least have some respect for canon. Sure, they'll slap ECM on mechs where it doesn't belong. They'll break the timeline to sell a Timberwolf with jump jets to earn some extra cash. Granted. But compared to the stuff you see other developers do with Star Wars or Warhammer 40,000 universes, PGI is relatively faithful to Battletech. And I'm very grateful for that.

[Cavendish]

Ryvucz, on 03 August 2014 - 11:39 PM, said:

Because it's no canon.

Neither is up-to-the-cockpit custom-built mechs on the IS side, yet we accept it.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Ryvucz, on 03 August 2014 - 11:39 PM, said:

Because it's no canon.

Frankenmechs are canon, the Temax Cat Ninjabolt says hi!

Hardpoints (ECM and AMS included), not canon.
ECM's implementation, DEFINITELY NOT CANON.
Engine Ratings that don't match up to hexes, not canon (for understandable reasons, but still).
Pinpoint FLD, not canon.
Heat Scale, not canon.
etc etc etc

Canon is great, but in the face of something silly as this, especially when there are grounds for this even in canon mind you (rather than calling it omnipods, think franken parts), it would simply be more fun.

Edited by majora incarnate, 03 August 2014 - 11:51 PM.

[Training Instructor]

1.4 DHS aren't canon either.

[Jungle Rhino]

I think the far more obvious solution to the issue of having to grind out 3 chassis is to remove the requirement to skill up in 3 different chassis in the first place...

But then people would have no need to purchase MC so that is never going to happen.

[MadPanda]

They are not omnimechs so they cannot have omnipods. I think the logic is sound.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Again omnipods are semantics, you could just say I took the right torso out of the Hunchback 4J and stuck it on the Hunchback 4G, and it would be ok even canon wise. How many stories are there that involve not just weapon transplants, but whole section transplants as field repairs; answer is a lot, its kinda what makes battletech stories awesome. All we are talking about here is hardpoints, which people have become confused that that is directly associated to an omnipod, which it isn't. Omnipods could be outfitted with any assortment of weaponry and then they were placed in that section within a day as opposed to the two weeks it may take to do the same chance in a Battlemech.

Soooooo all the canon or omnipod arguments really have nothing to do with logic or Battletech in general considering they are all based on confusion MWO kinda helps generate.

Edited by majora incarnate, 04 August 2014 - 12:25 AM.

[The Great Unwashed]

If battlemech designs were to make sense (we still need to be able to walk) than the upper torso would look like a present-day tank; all weapons as high mounted as possible with the crew behind a lot of armor and 360 degrees of twist. It doesn't make sense at all that all clan mechs and most IS mechs have low arms, even within the BT universe. But it would not be as much fun if all mechs looked like Jagers or Blackjacks, the only mechs that have proper arms.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

The Great Unwashed, on 04 August 2014 - 12:30 AM, said:

If battlemech designs were to make sense (we still need to be able to walk) than the upper torso would look like a present-day tank; all weapons as high mounted as possible with the crew behind a lot of armor and 360 degrees of twist. It doesn't make sense at all that all clan mechs and most IS mechs have low arms, even within the BT universe. But it would not be as much fun if all mechs looked like Jagers or Blackjacks, the only mechs that have proper arms.

I wasn't talking about allowing cross-chassis part mixing, it would be chassis specific ergo no blackjack arms on anything other than a blackjack.

[The Great Unwashed]

That is not what I meant; what I meant to say is that IS not allowing omnipods as being canon makes as much sense as low-hanging arms. That is: it does not make sense at all.

[Y E O N N E]

The IS do get omnipods. The Blackjack gets them, the IS gets its own version of the Nova, so on and so forth. The problem is that this stuff comes later, picking up in 3055. The game right now is set in 3049.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Jungle Rhino, on 04 August 2014 - 12:14 AM, said:

I think the far more obvious solution to the issue of having to grind out 3 chassis is to remove the requirement to skill up in 3 different chassis in the first place...

But then people would have no need to purchase MC so that is never going to happen.

EXACTLY.....the 3 mech requirement is prolly #1 most annoying thing....well, not #1, but certainly in my top 5 list of annoying things in MWO....

[Khobai]

Mechs are already allowed too much customization and look at all the problems its caused.

What this game desperately needs is less customization, less mechs that can do everything well, and division of mechs into different roles to make gameplay less one dimensional.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Ok, everyone is still hung up on wording and the use of omnipods which is partially my bad.

Look at it this way, in terms of customization, MW2?/MW3 were the most canon. There were no hardpoint limits or engine caps to keep you from mounting whatever you wanted. PGI realizing the balance issue and in the interest of flavor added those very things. All I'm saying is that you can switch hardpoints of variants between each other in similarity to how the omnimechs do it IN MWO; remember, all an omnipod is, is a pod of weapons with a simplified interface allowing for changing weapons to take a couple hours, not a couple weeks, there is again nothing to do with hardpoints.

So all I'm saying is that PGI should've reduced everything down to a single variant how previous Mechwarriors did it, except rather than try to simplify things down to one variant, just allow sections that are different (Hunchback hunchs for example) to be swapped for different hardpoint selections akin to the 'omnipod' system the Clan mechs enjoy currently. So grinding a chassis doesn't have to force users to play things they don't want to, just to get perks that they may need to stay competitive.

[Lily from animove]

Alistair Winter, on 03 August 2014 - 11:43 PM, said:

And the thread is over. GG guys. Well played, everyone.

But seriously, even with all their odd choices and short-comings, I will give PGI credit for this:
They do at least have some respect for canon. Sure, they'll slap ECM on mechs where it doesn't belong. They'll break the timeline to sell a Timberwolf with jump jets to earn some extra cash. Granted. But compared to the stuff you see other developers do with Star Wars or Warhammer 40,000 universes, PGI is relatively faithful to Battletech. And I'm very grateful for that.

yeah but for the sake of wepaon balacing, they should get off the weapon damage values from canon. We in the shooter part of the game are quie a LOT more accurate than some TT dices. And this imblances a lot stuff.

But I need to agree, MW2/3 had this nice feature, that you could use the chassis you wanted and the wepaons you wanted. the hardpoint restrictions do not allow this in MWO. So compared to the older games its a bit sad. (personally i do not care, since the Nova is hardpointed with all the flashy Energy hardpoints I need )
And one of the reasons why you see Timberwolfes everwhere, because the Timberwolf, even with its preset hardpoints is basically the full customizebale mech. Can boat anything it wants, or any weapon combo he wants. So why bothering with a quite limited summoner at even less podpspace? Except that you may like the summoners appearence over the TW, there is hardly a reason to do so.

And for real, I don't get why we have canon hardpoints on IS mechs, but yet allow a machine gun to be upgraded into an AC20.
it would be a lot more fun and good for money sink if changing hardpoints would be possible, but cost quite a lot money, like 200k and possibly 50k evertime you swap a weapon on it. This way, people may pay a bit more attention to what they laodout and don't freaking change it all the time..
On the other side, for newbies who need to try around a lot and have not much money, it may be a real pain. Juts give every mech a max amount of allowed hardpoints, to prevent stupid stuff like 30MG's on an Atlas.

Edited by Lily from animove, 04 August 2014 - 01:16 AM.

[Khobai]

Then what advantage would omnimechs have? The whole point of omnimechs is that theyre different from IS mechs. And omnipods do a good job of that.

I agree having to grind out 3 variants was always ********. If anything it makes the game less commercially viable because free players are forced to waste their precious few mech bays on having 3 different variants of the same mech.

Rather than turning IS mechs into omnimechs, PGI should switch to a skill system which has one skill tree per mech (instead of one skill tree per mech variant). So playing one hunchback would effectively level up ALL hunchbacks. The catch is you would need three times more xp since it would level them all up at the same time (which isnt really a catch since the net xp required to earn mastery remains the same or less). Additionally you could get a small XP bonus for using different variants (the worse the variant the greater the xp bonus), but using different variants would purely be a bonus rather than being punitive.

Edited by Khobai, 04 August 2014 - 01:21 AM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Khobai, on 04 August 2014 - 01:15 AM, said:

Then what advantage would omnimechs have? The whole point of omnimechs is that theyre different from IS mechs. And omnipods do a good job of that.

You mean the advantage that has no effect in real time gameplay, only in the mechlab? The one that still would offer more flexibility to the Omnimechs given their variants are designed for pretty much that reason (compare the Kintaro or Griffin to the Stormcrow, tell me what you see)?

Weapons are what make them different, not being able to switch hardpoints. Let us not forget the IS get omnimechs later on anyway so what keeps the Clan omnimechs different from the IS omnimechs, weapons/equipment.

[Khobai]

I already presented an alternative solution which removes the need to grind out 3 chassis simply by having all variants of a mech share the same skill tree.

But it sounds like you just want IS mechs to be clan mechs. Well theyre not. Theyre different for a reason and they should remain that way.