39 replies to this topic

[mogs01gt]

Hey guys,
I'm thinking about picking up a Dragon. I wonder if they feel about the same as a Cent or are they still sluggish like other Heavies? Im trying to find a Heavy I like to pilot and havent found one yet.

I was thinking about running this:
DRG-1C

Thanks
Mogs

Edited by mogs01gt, 01 August 2014 - 10:08 AM.

[Wintersdark]

The dragon isn't a spectacular mech, but one thing that it's not is sluggish.

It's got a large, fairly vulnerable center torso, so you need to protect it - don't try to brawl.

But the Dragon is ultimately a fast, more heavily armored medium in play. Use a decent sized engine (no smaller than 300, ideally around 325-350) and play a flanker/striker role.

[mogs01gt]

Wintersdark, on 01 August 2014 - 10:23 AM, said:

The dragon isn't a spectacular mech, but one thing that it's not is sluggish.
It's got a large, fairly vulnerable center torso, so you need to protect it - don't try to brawl.
But the Dragon is ultimately a fast, more heavily armored medium in play. Use a decent sized engine (no smaller than 300, ideally around 325-350) and play a flanker/striker role.

That doenst really answer my questions.....I already know these things...The build I posted is using a 320xl.

Edited by mogs01gt, 01 August 2014 - 10:39 AM.

[AdamBaines]

Wintersdark, on 01 August 2014 - 10:23 AM, said:

The dragon isn't a spectacular mech, but one thing that it's not is sluggish.

It's got a large, fairly vulnerable center torso, so you need to protect it - don't try to brawl.

But the Dragon is ultimately a fast, more heavily armored medium in play. Use a decent sized engine (no smaller than 300, ideally around 325-350) and play a flanker/striker role.

This was a good answer and did reflect on your build without saying it. Basically you dont want to be in close and what you have there, other then the PPC is a undergunned Brawler. The 5N(C) is good as it is fast and the load out of a Gauss and 2 LGL. Then once you get the speed tweak you will be rolling. I love my Dragons and have a good W/L ratio and K/D ratio in all of them. Just dont go thinking your actually a Heavy. Your a Medium hunter.

[Cion]

I'm not a dragon pilot but I do play centurions. Cents have a lot of survivability due to awesome hit boxes, small ct and big arms. Dragons have a huge center torso.

Although both can be fast, they may "feel" like they pilot the same *until you get fired upon*.

I've seen good Dragons on the battlefield, but they play nothing like the typical centurion. Dragons are more effective hit and run, cents do great in brawls.

My 2 cents (intended)

[Modo44]

Having elited 4 Dragons and mastered 3 of them:

Short answer: No.

Long answer: Nooooooooooooooo. The Dragon relies on speed more than armor for protection. Its hitboxes draw fire to the CT too much to try fair fights with heavier stuff. Think XL325 or higher for a highly mobile sniper (UAC5/Gauss/ERPPC/ERLL in various setups) or striker (AC10+4xML, for example). Fire 2-3 times, relocate. Also, learn to fire while running -- arm snapshots are hard, but they allow for some amazing moves.

Edited by Modo44, 01 August 2014 - 11:04 AM.

[mogs01gt]

The Dragon cant be that bad of a brawler.

So what you are saying is my only options for a fast heavy is either the QD or a Summoner?

Edited by mogs01gt, 01 August 2014 - 11:17 AM.

[Modo44]

You can brawl in a Dragon, but it is exceedingly hard compared to its preferred playstyle of hide and seek. The Quickdraw is actually worse -- an even bigger target that also runs very hot (no ballistics).

For something fast and hard-hitting at the same time, you need to go down to 55 tons (any non-Kintaro), or up to 75 tons (TW or XL340+ Orion).

Edited by Modo44, 01 August 2014 - 11:22 AM.

[mogs01gt]

Modo44, on 01 August 2014 - 11:20 AM, said:

You can brawl in a Dragon, but it is exceedingly hard compared to its preferred playstyle of hide and seek. The Quickdraw is actually worse -- an even bigger target that also runs very hot (no ballistics).

Would it make any difference that I run my cents with an XL? I tend to think a Dragon should be more durable than XL cent. I have no issues surviving in mine.

twisting baby!! got down to 22% health left. Im shooting for 13% since 14% is the lowest I have seen.

Edited by mogs01gt, 01 August 2014 - 11:23 AM.

[Darwins Dog]

mogs01gt, on 01 August 2014 - 11:08 AM, said:

The Dragon cant be that bad of a brawler.

So what you are saying is my only options for a fast heavy is either the QD or a Summoner?

Dragons are really bad brawlers. The CT is one of the largest in the game (compared to the rest of the body). It's wide and sticks out far enough that you can shoot it from slightly behind the dragon. It also has small side torsos and arms that won't offer a lot of protection (the opposite of what the cent has).

[Modo44]

mogs01gt, on 01 August 2014 - 11:23 AM, said:

Would it make any difference that I run my cents with an XL? I tend to think a Dragon should be more durable than XL cent. I have no issues surviving in mine.

Yes, good torso twisting is crucial. Just be aware that the Dragon's CT is much easier to hit than the Cent's. Dodging out of sight is therefore more important.

[FireKiller87]

mogs01gt, on 01 August 2014 - 11:23 AM, said:

Would it make any difference that I run my cents with an XL? I tend to think a Dragon should be more durable than XL cent. I have no issues surviving in mine.

twisting baby!! got down to 22% health left. Im shooting for 13% since 14% is the lowest I have seen.

Last night I saw a Firebrand survive an Assault battle with 7%. I couldn't believe my eyes.
As far as I know(I do not run a Dragon) everyone runs XL in them since the STs are tiny and you'd be cored with either engine given the large CT.

Edited by FireKiller87, 01 August 2014 - 11:28 AM.

[mogs01gt]

Modo44, on 01 August 2014 - 11:25 AM, said:

Yes, good torso twisting is crucial. Just be aware that the Dragon's CT is much easier to hit than the Cent's. Dodging out of sight is therefore more important.

damn it! soo save up for the under-gunned Summoner

FireKiller87, on 01 August 2014 - 11:27 AM, said:

Last night I saw a Firebrand survive an Assault battle with 7%. I couldn't believe my eyes.

That would be 1 leg gone, no arms, no armor and everything in red!!! Nice twisting!!!

Edited by mogs01gt, 01 August 2014 - 11:30 AM.

[Wintersdark]

mogs01gt, on 01 August 2014 - 10:38 AM, said:

That doenst really answer my questions.....I already know these things...The build I posted is using a 320xl.

You only asked one question, and I answered it in the first sentence (I did look at your build, BTW.)

But yes, the Dragon is a terrible brawler. The huge CT dooms it in a brawl, but you may not understand why.

A Centurion can twist. At 90 degrees, your opponent has wither arm or arm stub to shoot at, mostly, and his target area is very narrow and small. Twist 90 degrees in a dragon, and that long CT is still extremely easy to hit. Since the hitboxes changes, this means when you twist, you lose side torsos. As you need to run XL's to make the mech really work, that's still death.


55t mediums are better brawlers, as are 65t heavies. The dragon is decent at exactly one thing: being a fast flanker / striker.

[Modo44]

mogs01gt, on 01 August 2014 - 11:28 AM, said:

damn it! soo save up for the under-gunned Summoner

Undergunned compared to what? A Misery?

[Wintersdark]

And I say this as someone with hundreds of matches in my Flame alone, many more in other Dragons (sold later, only kept the Flame long term). I love Dragons, but what's been said in this thread is the reality using them.

[mogs01gt]

Wintersdark, on 01 August 2014 - 11:35 AM, said:

55t mediums are better brawlers, as are 65t heavies. The dragon is decent at exactly one thing: being a fast flanker / striker.

I tend to survive better in my Cent vs my Griff of Shawk. But I guess it makes sense that the CT gets hit while twisting compared to the Cents.

Modo44, on 01 August 2014 - 11:36 AM, said:

Undergunned compared to what? A Misery?

Compared to other heavies of the same weight or even hell the Stormcrow.

Edited by mogs01gt, 01 August 2014 - 11:39 AM.

[FireKiller87]

mogs01gt, on 01 August 2014 - 11:28 AM, said:

damn it! soo save up for the under-gunned Summoner


That would be 1 leg gone, no arms, no armor and everything in red!!! Nice twisting!!!

Tell me about it...lowest I've gotten is 20-30% in my JM6-A, which was both side torsi blown off, everything stripped except the head.
IIRC the Dragon looks like a giant tower on legs. It's not exactly the best defensive profile for a brawler. Doesn't have much armor for a heavy either.

[Modo44]

mogs01gt, on 01 August 2014 - 11:38 AM, said:

Compared to other heavies of the same weight or even hell the Stormcrow.

You mean Clan mechs. There is no IS heavy with similar firepower. The Cataphracts and Orions come close, but only with silly small XL engines. The Dragon is undergunned even vs IS heavies.

[mogs01gt]

Modo44, on 01 August 2014 - 11:50 AM, said:

You mean Clan mechs. There is no IS heavy with similar firepower. The Cataphracts and Orions come close, but only with silly small XL engines. The Dragon is undergunned even vs IS heavies.

A 3D with the stock 280xl has 35t of open space awhile the Summoner only as 20t.
The Orion-M with the stock 300 has 41t of free space.
A TDR9s with a 315xl still has 30t left of free space

Even with lighter weapons and give or take a few DHS, the Summoner is undergunned.