33 replies to this topic

[Col Jaime Wolf]

ok striaght up radar dep is the "must have" module. i run it in all my mechs now and hell even in lrm boats i run radar dep+target decay.

i thought we were trying to avoid "must have" modules.

i dont even need AMS anymore really. streaks? pffft nothing compared to the godliness of LRM immunity.

[Graugger]

Can you say.... NERF!

I think that's what you're aiming for here.

Edited by Graugger, 04 August 2014 - 08:44 PM.

[Mcgral18]

I can't say I've ever used it, or have any intention of doing so. I prefer my Seismic WallHack.

TiG is important to me as well.

[Deathlike]

Mcgral18, on 04 August 2014 - 08:48 PM, said:

I can't say I've ever used it, or have any intention of doing so. I prefer my Seismic WallHack.

Remember how Seismic Wallhack was the "radar orb of omnipotence" when it debuted? I'm trying to remember if it worked when you were moving initially... but in any case... it taught me the power of OP modules and why their new module system is so screwed up.

[Graugger]

Yes it used to work while you were moving, then light pilots complained and now it only works when you're stationary. And the range is shorter.

[Vassago Rain]

Deathlike, on 04 August 2014 - 09:17 PM, said:

Remember how Seismic Wallhack was the "radar orb of omnipotence" when it debuted? I'm trying to remember if it worked when you were moving initially... but in any case... it taught me the power of OP modules and why their new module system is so screwed up.

Yes, it worked on the move.
Also 400 meter range on the advanced version.

[Suko]

The thing that irritates me about Radar Dep is that it doesn't give good feedback to the attacker that the target is lost. I have shot at a mech in the volcano on therma and as he moved behind the rigging cables in my POV, my missiles suddenly stopped tracking him and dropped about 20m behind him (where he was prior to passing behind the rigging wires).The entire time my lock on box stayed red and solid. These cables are only a few pixels wide on my screen, but it was enough to drop the lock I guess!?

This was the dumbest example of Rader Derp I've seen, but it's happened many more times in other ways too. I have solid red lock and my missiles seem to have a mind of their own as they ignore the LOCKED ON TARGET and hit the dirt 20m away.

Edited by ShadowVFX, 04 August 2014 - 09:24 PM.

[Deathlike]

Vassago Rain, on 04 August 2014 - 09:20 PM, said:

Yes, it worked on the move.
Also 400 meter range on the advanced version.

400m on it was literally like "lol no brawl".

ShadowVFX, on 04 August 2014 - 09:23 PM, said:

The thing that irritates me about Radar Dep is that it doesn't give good feedback to the attacker that the target is lost. I have shot at a mech in the volcano on therma and as he moved, behind the rigging cables in my POV, my missiles suddenly stopped tracking him and dropped about 20m behind him (where he was prior to passing behind the rigging wires).The entire time my lock on box stayed red and solid. This was the dumbest example of Rader Derp I've seen, but it's happened many more times in other ways too. I have solid red lock and my missiles seem to have a mind of their own as they ignore the LOCKED ON TARGET and hit the dirt 20m away.

That's an actual bug with missiles and initial/first lockon, and less/nothing to do with Radar Deprivation.

[Suko]

Deathlike, on 04 August 2014 - 09:24 PM, said:

400m on it was literally like "lol no brawl".



That's an actual bug with missiles and initial/first lockon, and less/nothing to do with Radar Deprivation.

This was NOT my first lock on/salvo. (In the Therma volcano example) This was a solid lock and I've made two solid hits already. I have been using LRMs regularly as secondary weapons on most of my mechs since Closed Beta. I've been through the highs and lows and everything in-between. This was the first time I've seen missiles just go "dumb" while I have a solid lock on. It started happening literally the day after the patch where Radar Derp was instituted. If this is a "glitch", it's an incredibly irregular one that they need to fix immediately.

[Deathlike]

ShadowVFX, on 04 August 2014 - 09:29 PM, said:

This was NOT my first lock on/salvo. (In the Therma volcano example) This was a solid lock and I've made two solid hits already. I have been using LRMs regularly as secondary weapons on most of my mechs since Closed Beta. I've been through the highs and lows and everything in-between. This was the first time I've seen missiles just go "dumb" while I have a solid lock on. It started happening literally the day after the patch where Radar Derp was instituted. If this is a "glitch", it's an incredibly irregular one that they need to fix immediately.

IIRC, you are supposed to hold on that lock for like an extra second (the audio cue is key/required IIRC).

It has yet to be resolved unfortunately.

[FupDup]

Deathlike, on 04 August 2014 - 09:17 PM, said:

...I'm trying to remember if it worked when you were moving initially...

It did.

And even today, it's still basically the best mech module or at the very least the runner up.

[John1352]

If you understand what target deprivation does, you can avoid almost all missiles fired at you in a light mech. It is also highly valuable when fighting among buildings, as the extra few seconds of target lock let the assault you are playing games with know which side of the building you will pop out of next, and line you up for a one shot kill. With target deprivation, they have to guess. There's two modules that give a gigantic advantage, target deprivation, and seismic, and modules shouldn't do that.

[Deathlike]

FupDup, on 04 August 2014 - 09:31 PM, said:

It did.

And even today, it's still basically the best mech module or at the very least the runner up.

All I can say is... Paul knows how to defeat NuPaul's system. The master is still better than his pupil.

[Aresye]

Graugger, on 04 August 2014 - 08:44 PM, said:

Can you say.... NERF!

I think that's what you're aiming for here.

He's a missile boater, he's not aiming for anything.

[Khobai]

radar dep just needs to not completely negate advanced target decay then it would be fine

you have nothing and enemy has radar dep = lose lock immediately
you have adv target decay and enemy has radar dep = lose lock after 1.5 seconds
you have nothing and enemy has nothing = lose lock after 2 seconds
you have adv target decay and enemy has nothing = lose lock after 3.5 seconds

pgi shouldve learned from ecm that hard counters are bad and add little depth to gameplay. soft counters are far better for adding multidimensional gameplay.

Edited by Khobai, 04 August 2014 - 10:37 PM.

[Mad Strike]

Radar dep is one of many counters we have:

ECM , AMS now Radar dep.

The same there are support mechanisms for LRMs like NARC , TAG , uav andTarget Decay

So i can't see a problem here just that some LRM boaters lost a small fracture of their advantage.

Edited by strikebrch, 04 August 2014 - 10:43 PM.

[PANZERKAT]

It doesn't. You still get a few seconds over someone without target decay. It's like people suddenly forget when we didn't have radar dep and how even worse it was for LRM spam.

[LoneMaverick]

Radar Derp is a joke and anyone defending it has no idea what the word balance means.

"OMG LRMS OP" is not a valid excuse, 1 weightless module should not make you nearly immune to a weapon system, let alone one as crippled as LRMs. There is a reason LRMs aren't used in comp, get better.

[Mcgral18]

Anyone know what the base missile lock time is?

Advanced target decay brings it to 3.5 seconds, when mixed with TAG brings it to 4.5 seconds.

Radar Derp cancels the basic targeting time, which is 2 seconds. If that's the case, that still leaves us with 2.5 seconds for LRMs to hit with radar derp equipped?


I don't suppose anyone has done testing yet?


Source for lock on time:

http://mwo.gamepedia..._Lab#Pilot_Tree

Edited by Mcgral18, 04 August 2014 - 11:56 PM.

[Aresye]

LoneMaverick, on 04 August 2014 - 11:45 PM, said:

Radar Derp is a joke and anyone defending it has no idea what the word balance means.

"OMG LRMS OP" is not a valid excuse, 1 weightless module should not make you nearly immune to a weapon system, let alone one as crippled as LRMs. There is a reason LRMs aren't used in comp, get better.

You're right, LRMs are not OP, but I call BS on all the previous LRM arguments about how much skill and teamwork are involved, because radar deprivation is a perfect example how LRM boats NEED to have a post-LOS delay to be effective.

What ever happened to the whole, "But LRMs are skillful because you have to have a teammate spotting for you, carry UAVs, or NARC?" Last I checked radar dep doesn't negate NARC, it doesn't negate having a teammate spotting for you, and it doesn't negate UAVs.

All it negates is your ability to rain down LRMs indirectly with no assistance from your team or UAV, eliminating a BS mechanic in which 3-4 mechs could all launch an entire salvo on a mech behind a hill without anybody (or anything) actually guiding the missiles.