18 replies to this topic

[Josef Koba]

I haven't played my Victors in months. I own the Dragon Slayer, the 9S, and the 9K. I hovered over one today and saw that all its quirks were negatives - pitch and yaw for arm movement, torso turn rate, and turn rate - up to -20% in most cases. Given that all of the Victors I can see have the same negative quirks, wouldn't it make just as much sense to reset their stats to reflect the -10-20% the have? It seems to me that a particular variant might have a negative or a positive to a specific stat, but when all of the variants have the same stats, well, that's the normal state of being. It doesn't make any sense to me for a car dealer to say that the base MPG of the new Chevy Whatever the Heck is 40 miles per gallon, but that each and every package/variant actually has a -20% to the MPG rating because of reasons. If that's the case, the actual base MPG is 32, not 40. There seems to be literally no variation in the pitch and yaw for arm movement, torso turn rate, and turn rate of the Victors. Ergo, the stated base stats aren't really base at all. Quirks only make sense (to me at least) if there's some variation between variants. You dig? Otherwise we're just talking about base stats. Perhaps other chassis have the same issues, I just haven't noticed.

This quirk thing is pretty nifty, if you ask me. I greatly enjoy it, whether from the clan or IS perspective. It just only makes sense if there's actually a variation. Forgive me if this has been discussed.

[FupDup]

The way I think of it is, is that the -20% or whatever numbers indicate a deviation from a pre-set formula used for that weight interval (I'm pretty sure there is a formula like this). In this case, -20% twisting/turning speed from the "default" value of any 80 ton mech.

Edited by FupDup, 04 August 2014 - 10:20 PM.

[Gyrok]

Then it would reflect the absurd nerfs on the Awesome, which is already bordering on being renamed the Mediocre.

[Josef Koba]

FupDup, on 04 August 2014 - 10:20 PM, said:

The way I think of it is, is that the -20% or whatever numbers indicate a deviation from a pre-set formula used for that weight interval (I'm pretty sure there is a formula like this). In this case, -20% twisting/turning speed from the "default" value of any 80 ton mech.

That could very well be. And if that's the case then my point is moot. 'Twas curiosity on my part, and it didn't make a whole lot of sense unless, as you suggest, the stats are based on every/any 80 tonner.

[Deathlike]

Gyrok, on 04 August 2014 - 10:20 PM, said:

Then it would reflect the absurd nerfs on the Awesome, which is already bordering on being renamed the Mediocre.

IIRC, the Awesome (not to mention the PB specifically) has a -10% turn nerf.

Is there any reason for this at all? It boggles all known logic.

In any case, yes, Paul nerfs are the new norm.

Edited by Deathlike, 04 August 2014 - 10:27 PM.

[Khobai]

The awesome has a turn nerf because it can have a really big engine. It prevents the awesome from turning better than most heavies.

[Deathlike]

Khobai, on 04 August 2014 - 10:30 PM, said:

The awesome has a turn nerf because it can have a really big engine. It prevents the awesome from turning better than most heavies.

Great.... except there's only 2 variants that this would only apply to... and 1 of them is still garbage.

I don't think that has actually ever helped the Awesome's case... even BEFORE the CT buff.

[FupDup]

Khobai, on 04 August 2014 - 10:30 PM, said:

The awesome has a turn nerf because it can have a really big engine. It prevents the awesome from turning better than most heavies.

Only two variants can have a really big engine.

Edited by FupDup, 04 August 2014 - 10:37 PM.

[Khobai]

Well they need to decouple engine rating from turn speed, torso twist speed, etc... its caused nothing but problems.

turn speed and torso twist speed should be based entirely on the base engine of the mech plus any quirks that mech might have.

[Deathlike]

Khobai, on 04 August 2014 - 10:41 PM, said:

Well they need to decouple engine rating from turn speed, torso twist speed, etc... its caused nothing but problems.

turn speed and torso twist speed should be based entirely on the base engine of the mech plus any quirks that mech might have.

It's been said for a while, including Open Beta.

It's not as if it hadn't been mentioned before... only to fall on deaf ears.

[Turist0AT]

The nerfing is out of hand. Because of the quirk system the nerfing is even worse. Can someone lern PGI proper balance mechanics instead of making the game less fun,

this is how PGI balance the game
"now you can only use ONE weapon at the time, you right leg doesnt work, knees dont work, Jump Jets are just Hover Jets and you may not torso twist... in fact lets just lock the torso all together"

When a mod(MWLL) holds higher quality, what does that say about MWO?

Edited by Turist0AT, 04 August 2014 - 11:33 PM.

[Col Jaime Wolf]

you know we need to stop blaming PGI. by far and large all these bad balance decisions are pauls decisions.

really PGI should just reassign or fire paul. the greater good of the game demands it. and truthfully he really doesn't do a good job.

[Bartholomew bartholomew]

Most of the nerfs come about from all these thread going THIS IS OP NERF IT NAOW!!!!

Stop whining about things. And then the could be what they should be.

Victors need to be un-nerfed.

[Satan n stuff]

FupDup, on 04 August 2014 - 10:20 PM, said:

The way I think of it is, is that the -20% or whatever numbers indicate a deviation from a pre-set formula used for that weight interval (I'm pretty sure there is a formula like this). In this case, -20% twisting/turning speed from the "default" value of any 80 ton mech.

As far as I can tell twisting and turning speed is related to top speed, or more accurately, engine rating and mech tonnage. Acceleration is also related to engine rating and tonnage, but it's higher for lighter mechs that have the same top speed as heavier ones. The quirks are the deviation from those numbers. I could try to find out the actual formulas, but that would definitely be a violation of the ToS.
If someone at PGI wants to give us the formulas that'd be very helpful.

Edited by Satan n stuff, 05 August 2014 - 03:31 AM.

[FDJustin]

http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/ Click on any of the engine speeds on any of the mechs, or any of the twist speeds on them and you'll find a chart. This tells you what you get per-each weight class, quirks not always included.

[TercieI]

FupDup, on 04 August 2014 - 10:20 PM, said:

The way I think of it is, is that the -20% or whatever numbers indicate a deviation from a pre-set formula used for that weight interval (I'm pretty sure there is a formula like this). In this case, -20% twisting/turning speed from the "default" value of any 80 ton mech.

I believe it's vs. "movement archetype" which is not-quite-weight-class, but pretty close.

[Livewyr]

It should just say:

VTR-9K

(ATLAS)
-0%
-0%
-0%
-0%

[Mechteric]

Wouldn't be so bad if the jump jets weren't horrible across the board.

[Deathlike]

Mellifluer, on 05 August 2014 - 03:15 AM, said:

you know we need to stop blaming PGI. by far and large all these bad balance decisions are pauls decisions.

really PGI should just reassign or fire paul. the greater good of the game demands it. and truthfully he really doesn't do a good job.

PGI's not firing Paul.

Because reasons.

I could repeat what I've said before, but ultimately the problem really starts at the top.