58 replies to this topic

[EvilCow]

There is no need to nerf anything, clan mechs are supposed to be better, deal with it.

When new IS technology will be introduced things will tend to balance out.

[Ultimax]

Lily from animove, on 05 August 2014 - 05:54 AM, said:

the issue is the choice of clanmechs, the timbewolf is top of its weight class, and has all the best "standard upgrades, FF, Enfo, big XL) while the summone has not all these and is lower in its weight class. Additionally, the TBR has way better hardpoints available in its setup. This generates a big gab in the mechs pure potential and the summoner will never be able to compete, unless some quirks give it decent advantages over the madcat.

People really need to get over the Timberwolf already.

The Summoner can't compete with the Cataphract, its a bad mech.

The hardpoint allocation is (mostly) bad - with the exception of the high mounted ballistics in torsos except you lack the tonnage to use any strong ballistic combos (you'll be limited to 1 big one, or 2 peanut shooters).

It has more Jump Jets than it needs, and not enough tonnage available to justify taking a heavy slot.

I want to love the Summoner, but this is the reality and it has about two squirts of piss to do with the Timberwolf.

Lily from animove, on 05 August 2014 - 05:54 AM, said:

between IS mechs, this is not so much the case, because every mech, by its preset hardpoints is kinda unique on its own and

Plenty of IS mechs make other IS mechs obsolete.

Lily from animove, on 05 August 2014 - 05:54 AM, said:

Crow and Nova are asimilar issue, the nova by having 5tons less is standard standard, while the crow on top gets FF and ES, + does not have fixed JJ's taking even more podspace.

The Nova is a niche mech, but what it does it does exceptionally well - and the builds it can run are unique to it.

This doesn't mean the Stormcrow isn't a great medium mech, but don't sell the Nova short.

Edited by Ultimatum X, 05 August 2014 - 06:38 AM.

[KingCobra]

Geez how many more nerf the Clan mech threads are there?

Like many have said leave the Clan mechs alone NO!!!!!!!! nerfs.

What PGI needs to do its fix all the INNER SPHERE mechs armor amount and mostly all the faulty hit-boxes.Then there will be balance again. Clan weapons are secondary problems to the mech design flaws on most of the IS mechs

[Ultimax]

Sprouticus, on 05 August 2014 - 05:21 AM, said:

But I cannot state strongly enough that I really think the delay in balance changes for the clan mechs is overdue. The TW, the cERML, and perhaps the SCrow need some changes to bring them in line with the rest of the clan mechs and weapons.

Not everyone agrees with you, including me.

And really calling nerfs for a 55 ton Stormcrow?

If you are having trouble dealing with Stormcrows, I'm really not sure what to tell you.

And here's a tip on dealing with Timberwolves. You can't safely spread leg damage, no matter how much you twist.

If you see a heavy loadout that isn't mostly lasers, you can be sure they have likely shaved their legs down to 50/55.

If the loadout is really heavy, like dual gauss, they may have even shaved below 50.

[Bulvar Jorgensson]

Do we not miss the main part o this thread..........

THEIR GIVING US MORE CRAP FOR OUR COCKPIT's.......Whoop dee doooo.....

Stop giving us Tat, this is not BLING the MECH.....it is MECHWARRIOR ONLINE.

give some random maps, proper objectives, tweeking with this weapon and that weapon for balance is a complete load of hog wash, stop bloody tinkering and start motoring.

Edited by Bulvar Jorgensson, 05 August 2014 - 06:47 AM.

[El Bandito]

It's as if PGI does not have a Public Test server. (they do) Why can't they just use it for aggressive balance changes, without affecting the live server? Certain weapons and mechs, both from the IS and the Clans, need obvious nerfs/buffs.

[Oderint dum Metuant]

Pointless to nerf clan tech when months down the line IS gets new tech to bring them up to par and in some cases better (Light Gauss anyone?)

The C ERML is spot on where it is, the IS ML needs it's heat values returning to normal that's all.

The fact you bring the Scrow up as needing to be nerfed, as opposed to the superior Nova is....well odd.

[nehebkau]

EyeOne, on 05 August 2014 - 05:53 AM, said:

Clan Lasers need a range nerf across the board.

How about no.

The range difference isn't what is making clan mechs so viable. If you believe it's weapons then you just don't get it.. Clan engines are what give clans the advantage, not weapons. A clan mech can live longer on the battle field and boat more weapons because of their engine -- it's not range -- its the engines.

As for what needs to be done? I dunno -- since I like the variety -- but maybe a 10% reduction (eventually) in IS standard engine weight.

Now, OP:

Game changes are complex and take time. Adding little things is easy and quick. PGI wants to give people something while working on some major items so they will put out little things. If they didn't do anything you would cry -- they do something small -- you cry --- they put something major out and it has bugs because they didn't take enough time on it -- you cry. (You meaning player base).

I wish people who complain about development time and who talk about 'easy fixes' would actually spend time working in a resource constrained environment with a GIANT, complex piece of software. People would then realize that when you get in the millions to 100s of millions of lines of code in production environments there is never quick and easy anything.

Hell I remember one system I was working on would take 12 hours to fully compile and 26 hours to run a full simulation. Try doing quick changes and testing with that!

Edited by nehebkau, 05 August 2014 - 07:02 AM.

[Gyrok]

Mr Ikea, on 05 August 2014 - 06:28 AM, said:

Bullshit. A "stock weapon" -S barely has half it's full armor, and there's no way known two simultaneous Timberwolves didn't rip through you in seconds.

I have seen Jagermechs defeat timberwolves in trials of position 1v1. So, I think you heavily over estimate the TW or massively underestimate the Jager.

[El Bandito]

DV McKenna, on 05 August 2014 - 06:53 AM, said:

Pointless to nerf clan tech when months down the line IS gets new tech to bring them up to par and in some cases better (Light Gauss anyone?)

Months? As in 36 months?

[Oderint dum Metuant]

El Bandito, on 05 August 2014 - 06:57 AM, said:

Months? As in 36 months?

I probably should have said years with PGI.....but nerfing them now to un nerf them later sounds like wasted dev time........hang on a second....

[Sprouticus]

Ultimatum X, on 05 August 2014 - 06:42 AM, said:

Not everyone agrees with you, including me.

And really calling nerfs for a 55 ton Stormcrow?

If you are having trouble dealing with Stormcrows, I'm really not sure what to tell you.

And here's a tip on dealing with Timberwolves. You can't safely spread leg damage, no matter how much you twist.

If you see a heavy loadout that isn't mostly lasers, you can be sure they have likely shaved their legs down to 50/55.

If the loadout is really heavy, like dual gauss, they may have even shaved below 50.

I dont have a history with you to determine whether your evaluaiton is very good, but I will give you the BoD for the purposes of this discussion.

1) I dont think the SCrow needs a nerf. In fact I said so in my first post. I do think the SCrow is superior to every other medium in the game, but I think that is due to the cERML, not the mech.
2) I don't ''have problems dealing with SCrows'. I do however feel from my experiences on both the equaiton think it is the best medium in the game. The lack of JJ's makes it non-OP IMO.
3) Legging TW's is an idea.....not a great idea, but an idea. A good TW pilot will tear you up if you do that though. Having to do 100 dmg is a LOT, especially when you do not lower their ability to output dmg.


And most importantly, the entire point of this thread was to get more balance changes in. Maybe you are right, maybe the changes I proposed would make the TW and the cERML terrible. I highly doubt i, and people whose opinions I trust feel the same, but you may be right.


But if we don't test this, we cant know for sure. Which is my point. More changes faster. And don't be afraid to undo them if they do not work out or if there are unintended consequences.

[CygnusX7]

• Watches video of a bearded Mormon piloting an energy boat Storm Crow netting 10 kills and over 1300 damage
  
• Opens new browser window and creates thread requesting a nerf of the Storm Crow and Clan lasers.

No offense to anyone who is here to have fun and enjoy the game but it's the player base that makes this game suck.

Nerf PGI T-Shirts for everyone!

Edited by CygnusX7, 05 August 2014 - 07:19 AM.

[Sprouticus]

Gyrok, on 05 August 2014 - 06:57 AM, said:

I have seen Jagermechs defeat timberwolves in trials of position 1v1. So, I think you heavily over estimate the TW or massively underestimate the Jager.

Individual matches are pointless. You need to look at the experience of the community as a whole across all Elo's. Not just yours. Not just those you know. But a cross section of all users and skill levels.

For me personally the TW is far superior to any other heavy, regardless of load out. Some of that may be my playstyle, my skill level, etc. And I am just one person. But enough people have made complaints and the stats that have been collected in the last 6 weeks are a strong enough indicator that some kind of change is probably warranted IMO.

Same goes for the cERML, although that one is more my opinion and gut feeling which is certainly up for more argument. I freely admit I may be wrong on the ERML.


But again, changes are warranted, whether that is buffing ht eISML or tweaking the cERML.

[Willard Phule]

El Bandito, on 05 August 2014 - 06:50 AM, said:

It's as if PGI does not have a Public Test server. (they do) Why can't they just use it for aggressive balance changes, without affecting the live server? Certain weapons and mechs, both from the IS and the Clans, need obvious nerfs/buffs.

Because they've tried that.

When they open up the test server to the public to see how changes will effect the game, they get feedback. When they get feedback, they ignore it. When they ignore the feedback and go ahead with whatever derptastic "fix" they want to implement, they get flamed. When they get flamed, their income drops. Then they have to have another "bling your mech" patch to make up for lost income.

That's pretty much it.

[Sprouticus]

CygnusX7, on 05 August 2014 - 07:12 AM, said:

• OP watches video of a bearded Mormon piloting an energy boat Storm Crow netting 10 kills and over 1300 damage
  
• OP opens new browser window and creates thread requesting a nerf of the Storm Crow and Clan lasers.

No offense to anyone who is here to have fun and enjoy the game but it's the player base that makes this game suck.

Nerf PGI T-Shirts for everyone!

I have no idea who you are, but I can be relatively certain you have never read any of my posts. And from your tone I can be even more certain that your opinion should get as much weight as a warm breath on a set of balance scales.

[Cyborne Elemental]

Gyrok, on 05 August 2014 - 06:57 AM, said:

I have seen Jagermechs defeat timberwolves in trials of position 1v1. So, I think you heavily over estimate the TW or massively underestimate the Jager.

Jager has been kicking ass long before clans got here.
If I could load 3 UAC-5, or 2 AC-20 on my Kintaro I'd be killing Madcats with it too.

Its all the other mechs that have to rely on crappy IS Lasers and SRM's or lighter ballistics (the brawlers) that just get mopped by clanners.

C-ERLL and C-ERPPC are monsters, and thats just the icing on the cake compared to the other clan weapons and whats planned with C-AC's and LBx.

Edited by Mister D, 05 August 2014 - 07:28 AM.

[SgtMagor]

if there going to do anything, do it to the Summoner. the mech is lacking in so many ways, and  with the jump jet nerf its just painful to pilot the mech...

Edited by SgtMagor, 05 August 2014 - 07:26 AM.

[Sprouticus]

Willard Phule, on 05 August 2014 - 07:18 AM, said:

Because they've tried that.

When they open up the test server to the public to see how changes will effect the game, they get feedback. When they get feedback, they ignore it. When they ignore the feedback and go ahead with whatever derptastic "fix" they want to implement, they get flamed. When they get flamed, their income drops. Then they have to have another "bling your mech" patch to make up for lost income.

That's pretty much it.

So much anger....kind of sad you waste your time typing this when you could be doing something to make yourself happy instead. If PGI angers you so much, you might want to step away from the game a while.


as a serious reply, I think they would need to leave the public test servers open far longer than they feel comfortable (weeks) to perform the proper level of testing.

Personally I have advocated for this since the PTS came out. I REALLY wish they would use the PTS for more balance changes, if only to get data similar to what they have been collecting in the last few weeks. But this does not appear to be PGI's usage model for PTS. Which is a real shame IMO.

[meteorol]

Gyrok, on 05 August 2014 - 06:57 AM, said:

I have seen Jagermechs defeat timberwolves in trials of position 1v1. So, I think you heavily over estimate the TW or
massively underestimate the Jager.

Or it was just a massive skill gap between the pilots and your anecdotal evidence says exactly nothing about balance. I have seen a locust killing a DS in a 1v1. Seriously, if you want to talk about balance, you invalidate your whole statement when beginning your sentence with "i have seen", because frankly speaking, it doesn't matter what you have seen. Neither does it matter what i have seen, nor what anyone else has seen.
What we see is individual skill having a massive impact on the outcome of individual 1v1 encounters, way more than the strenght of the mech itself. (atleast for mechs that are somewhat close)

The "true" strength of a mech can only be determined when player skill is out of the equation, which is never the case with anecdotal evidence based on two random guys doing a 1v1 in two different mechs.

Edited by meteorol, 05 August 2014 - 07:30 AM.