23 replies to this topic

[SirLANsalot]

So PGI has added in a new game mechanic, one that I think could be used to really put some nice buffs to certain mechs.

Like the Awesome, it got a nice buff, but it needs more before it can be a really good mech. Adding this new mechanic to it, in a positive instead of a negative, would make the mech valuable on cold maps. It would hate hot maps, but it already does, so really no major change there. A 20% bonus to environmental effects would bring in a lot of new things for pilots to think about. 20% more heat applying to your mech on Terra Therma, ergo, a 20% efficiency reduction to your HS. However it would be a major buff to the mech on maps like Frozen City, or even Forest Colony Snow. The mech would run PPC and ERPPC's like it would made to do, without any major heat limitations. Those issues would still exist, but you would be able to dissipate your heat far better then before. Just, you would be hating life if you got Terra Therma or Tourmaline, but that would be the point of a bonus like that.


many other mechs could use this bonus/immunity.

Hunchbacks could use it as a negative and give the entire chassis a better "robust" sense to the mech. Being a "workhorse" of all BT, it would be fitting for this mech to get a -50 or even -75%.
Catapharacts, or more importantly the 1X and 2X which need some sort of bonus to them to make them more appealing, could use a 15% bonus, as both mechs are more energy oriented then any of the other variants.


Those a few of the mechs I could think of the top of my head. Anyone else think how this new mechanic could help other mechs?

[Spike Brave]

External heat is not a new game mechanic. It's why everyone hates Terra Therma. The Hellslinger is just the first Mech with a quirk relate to it. You correct in that several mechs would benefit from a similar quirk.

[Sandpit]

Spike Brave, on 05 August 2014 - 03:35 PM, said:

External heat is not a new game mechanic. It's why everyone hates Terra Therma. The Hellslinger is just the first Mech with a quirk relate to it. You correct in that several mechs would benefit from a similar quirk.

the mechanic he's referring to is the new quirk....

[Roland]

The mechanic itself is kind of poorly named.

Your mech is pretty much ALWAYS hotter than the external environment. That's what makes it cool down. That's how heat sinks work. The only exception is when you are standing in lava and your mech is getting hotter without doing anything.

This means that any reduction in the transfer of heat between your mech and the environment will equate to a reduction of cooling efficiency.

[Sandpit]

Roland, on 05 August 2014 - 03:40 PM, said:

The mechanic itself is kind of poorly named.

Your mech is pretty much ALWAYS hotter than the external environment. That's what makes it cool down. That's how heat sinks work. The only exception is when you are standing in lava and your mech is getting hotter without doing anything.

This means that any reduction in the transfer of heat between your mech and the environment will equate to a reduction of cooling efficiency.

it also reduces the affect of cold maps as well

[Gralzeim]

Spike Brave, on 05 August 2014 - 03:35 PM, said:

It's why everyone hates Terra Therma.

*cough* Um. I...I like Terra Therma.

[Roland]

Sandpit, on 05 August 2014 - 03:44 PM, said:

it also reduces the affect of cold maps as well

I understand what they are trying to accomplish, but it makes no sense from a physics perspective.

Ultimately, reduction of transfer of heat between the mech and the environment amounts to insulation on the mech.

The whole point of heat sinks is the opposite of insulation.

This, on any map, hot or cold, reducing the heat transfer between the mech and the environment amounts to the same thing as removing heat sinks from the mech.

Ultimately, i think the problem here is that the mechanic is describing how some internal mechanism of the heat system, which ultimately is not a realistic or physics based heat model.

With a realistic heat system, the mech would generate heat, and the heat sinks would transfer the heat to the environment, with the difference between the mech and the environment affecting the transfer rate.

But with the system we have in mwo, heat is being transferred from the mech into the ether, and the environment is just creasing some modifier to that rate.

So the new quirk is halving that modifier, but not really affecting her transfer between the mech and the environment, because in the system we have heat isn't actually transferred between the mech and the environment at all.

[Aresye]

Roland, on 05 August 2014 - 03:40 PM, said:

The mechanic itself is kind of poorly named.

Your mech is pretty much ALWAYS hotter than the external environment. That's what makes it cool down. That's how heat sinks work. The only exception is when you are standing in lava and your mech is getting hotter without doing anything.

This means that any reduction in the transfer of heat between your mech and the environment will equate to a reduction of cooling efficiency.

So wait, is the new mech supposed to have better or worse heat efficiency?

I'm on board with your line of thinking, so seeing "-50 External Heat Transfer" tells me this mech is poor at dissipating heat.

If it's supposed to be a more efficient mech it should say +50 External Heat Transfer, which would imply the mech is better at transferring its heat to the outside.

I am much confused by these wordings.

[Roland]

Aresye, on 05 August 2014 - 03:57 PM, said:

So wait, is the new mech supposed to have better or worse heat efficiency?

I'm on board with your line of thinking, so seeing "-50 External Heat Transfer" tells me this mech is poor at dissipating heat.

If it's supposed to be a more efficient mech it should say +50 External Heat Transfer, which would imply the mech is better at transferring its heat to the outside.

I am much confused by these wordings.

Check my second post... The reason the wording is confusing is because the heat system isn't really physics based.

The quirk, apparently, halves the modifier that is applied to your mech's heat dissipation rate based on the environment.

[Sandpit]

Gralzeim, on 05 August 2014 - 03:52 PM, said:

*cough* Um. I...I like Terra Therma.

me too

[Davers]

So basically you have no penalty on hot maps and no benefit on cold maps. It's like every map is Forest Colony or River City. This is PGI's answer to players' requests for a 'heat neutral mech'.

[SirLANsalot]

Aresye, on 05 August 2014 - 03:57 PM, said:

So wait, is the new mech supposed to have better or worse heat efficiency?

I'm on board with your line of thinking, so seeing "-50 External Heat Transfer" tells me this mech is poor at dissipating heat.

If it's supposed to be a more efficient mech it should say +50 External Heat Transfer, which would imply the mech is better at transferring its heat to the outside.

I am much confused by these wordings.

The modifier on the new mech is one that makes the penalty from Terra Therma 50% less then it would normally apply to your heat sinks. It also makes the Bonus that cold maps like Frozen City also 50% less. So this quirk for the new mech is better suited for the hot maps, rather then the cold ones. As the cold ones bonus won't be very high so its better for the hotter maps were the penalty is lessened.

On the other hand, if the quirk is revered, and instead is a +50%, maps like terra Thermas penalty is INCREASED, and the bonus from cold maps is increased even further.

This is why I said it would be good as a + on some mechs, and as a negative on others. Mechs like the Awesome 8Q and 9M would love it as a positive, as they are mechs that are better suited to cold maps anyways, and already hate life when they get maps like Terra Therma.

Gralzeim, on 05 August 2014 - 03:52 PM, said:

*cough* Um. I...I like Terra Therma.

You are of the VERY few that might like that map. General consensus has been, the hot maps SUCK. Caustic Valley used to be the "hot" map back in Close Beta, even when DHS came out. Life SUCKED hard on that map with SHS only. With DHS being so prevalent, they added Tourmaline and then went even further and added Terra Therma. Both of those newer maps, makes SHS not even work since the cooling penalty is SOOOO high on those maps. Terra Therma makes your DHS (even with efficiencies) work below SHS, and its only the true doubles in the eng that make it even work at all.

The Colder the Map, the better damage you can deal and the longer you can stay shooting something before having to run off and cool down. This is something that is even reflected in the BT books (I have read all books that lead up to the year 3054 so far) that the hot places are areas every mechwarrior doesn't want to be.

[Mystere]

Spike Brave, on 05 August 2014 - 03:35 PM, said:

It's why everyone hates Terra Therma.

I did not give you permission to speak for me!

Edited by Mystere, 05 August 2014 - 08:33 PM.

[Gralzeim]

Hot maps are a challenge, for me. And the general idea between hot and cold maps is the pacing of battles. Hot maps are more likely to have brief intense engagements and suit hit and run tactics better, while cold maps favor more prolonged battling. Cold maps are a challenge just as much, because instead of having to worry about heat as much, you have to worry more about enemy fire and are more likely to encounter an enemy ready to fight you for long periods, rather than on a hot map, where you you may very well run into already-hot enemies.

It's variety, and that's why I like it. I'd hate it if every map in the game was neutral or cold.

Yeah, sometimes I drop in a hot mech on a hot match, but that's just an extra challenge, to see if I can still do well. I like to think it improves my skills.

[Roland]

Bad's play terra therma, and rush to center every single time, because REASONS.
Then they die there, and say, "DERP. I HATE THIS MAP."

[Gralzeim]

Roland, on 05 August 2014 - 08:45 PM, said:

Bad's play terra therma, and rush to center every single time, because REASONS.
Then they die there, and say, "DERP. I HATE THIS MAP."

Those are the same people who trundle single-file through the tunnel in on Forest Colony thinking they're clever (then they get trapped and slaughtered), or charge the caldera of Caustic Valley like standing in the middle of it wins the match automatically, etc.

[Vassago Rain]

Roland, on 05 August 2014 - 03:56 PM, said:

I understand what they are trying to accomplish, but it makes no sense from a physics perspective.

Ultimately, reduction of transfer of heat between the mech and the environment amounts to insulation on the mech.

The whole point of heat sinks is the opposite of insulation.

This, on any map, hot or cold, reducing the heat transfer between the mech and the environment amounts to the same thing as removing heat sinks from the mech.

Ultimately, i think the problem here is that the mechanic is describing how some internal mechanism of the heat system, which ultimately is not a realistic or physics based heat model.

With a realistic heat system, the mech would generate heat, and the heat sinks would transfer the heat to the environment, with the difference between the mech and the environment affecting the transfer rate.

But with the system we have in mwo, heat is being transferred from the mech into the ether, and the environment is just creasing some modifier to that rate.

So the new quirk is halving that modifier, but not really affecting her transfer between the mech and the environment, because in the system we have heat isn't actually transferred between the mech and the environment at all.

Ghost heatsinks.

[Alex Warden]

you all are aware that the past few quirks are leading even further away from the initial franchise, right? pls explain to me how a BT Mech dissipates heat if it has an isolation from it´s surrounding environment? (and btw, how did this genius of all genius´ mastertech achieve this?)

i really wonder what made up quirks mechs will have a year from now... remember, it´s not about where it starts, it´s about where it leads to...

okay, ppl can´t deal with the fact that terra therma is hot... so they give them quirks to feel more "comfortable" in the middle of a volcano outburst... i know that many players are "unconfortable" with alot of stuff that adds to immersion and is part of the remaining few sim aspects that PGI was so generous to leave in the game.. i bet there are alot of possible MC mech "quirks" to deal with those, too...

ah what am i talking... i think the transition is finally completed

Edited by Alex Warden, 05 August 2014 - 09:40 PM.

[Gralzeim]

Initial franchise? You mean the first MechWarrior game? The game you could beat without even engaging in battle? >_>

Or did you mean the initial BattleTech stuff? No clans?

Every MechWarrior game has been different from the last (for good or for ill, it's all a matter of taste, everyone has their favorite).

I may not agree with some of the choices that have been made for MWO, but it's not like I could claim PGI is tainting some great lineage that has been unchanged for eons.

[Mystere]

Roland, on 05 August 2014 - 08:45 PM, said:

Bad's play terra therma, and rush to center every single time, because REASONS.
Then they die there, and say, "DERP. I HATE THIS MAP."

It's funny you should mention that.

I had a match in Terra Therma and 10 of the group mindlessly marched into the center while I and one other decided to flank instead. The two of us encountered and held off 5 enemy flankers, killed one, and heavily damaged (i.e. disarmed and dismembered) two more, before both of us ultimately died.

What happened to the rest of our team? Well, they were slaughtered. As it turned out, I was the last to die. The 2x5 battle lasted much longer than the 10x7 massacre at the pugzapper.