950 replies to this topic

[Noesis]

Game needs to be balanced on occasion for the overall benefit of many differing playstyles, so sorry if your favourite flavour of ice cream didnt have as many chocolate sprinkles on it anymore. The sonner this is done the better for the game based on whatever conclusive data might be present.

XtremeAlex, on 08 August 2014 - 09:20 AM, said:

Beautiful ... in this game Physics does not exist, the more quickly and less hot to cool it, you cool down only when a weapon has finished shooting -.- ''

Closed heat pumping systems are limited by the throughput or flow as opposed to just the laws of thermodynamics. So in this game engineering exists, which is one better reality than theoretical physics.

Also with heat thresholds with materials the effective conductivity of heat becomes less so if a material is pushed beyond its limits it will not cool so well as a result.

Edited by Noesis, 08 August 2014 - 09:26 AM.

[Flak Kannon]

Those that bought your Clan packs got to Enjoi your easy button for a while.

The IS v Clan testing just further proved that to PGI...


Now they are talking about 10v12 AND nerfing the Clan tech.



Guess those 12-0 12-1,12-2,12-3 stomps that probably made up 85% of matches made them open their eyes to balance a little.


Exactly as I said would happen.

Carry on.

[Shakespeare]

The proof is in the pudding: I'll put my rant bullhurn aside for now and give the changes a shot. I still think the need to nerf the CERLL is a symptom of a deeper problem (stacked convergence with multiple weps), but if the end result of all this is a reduction in the typical engagement range for everyone, then maybe it will be worth the trouble.

Of course, if I spend all afternoon/evening drowning in AC5 shells, I'll know why.

[TamCoan]

IMHO both changes are to counter dual gauss/dual ppc dual gauss/2-4 erll builds. One of my most successful builds has been gauss/3x erll direwolf.

I'll load it up tonight however I don't have high hopes for the build's effectiveness. On the flip side the most success I've had with a direwolf build has not been the 2x gauss/2x erppc. It's been the "AC cannon DW". Loaded full of UAC2s, UAC5s, LBX10s, it is a thing to be feared when you get in it's center line. Hope they don't nerf that too...

[Lucky Moniker]

is this a result of the clan vs IS testing? this is a pitiful excuse of an idea to balance them. the beam duration was already too long, it is no longer skill based to hold a target for 2 full seconds, it is pure dumb luck or only useful on assault mechs that do not know you are there

[Statius]

Paul,

What is to be said? Treating symptoms and ignoring the problem. A real heat scale could really help. And maybe, just, maybe, we could think a little about convergence.

Surely we are owed at least an Apologia pro erroribus suis!

[P e n u m b r a]

does feel a little weird the sound shutting off on the laser and it continue to fire silently.

[Dragcos]

PPC's should of not got nerfed imo... When I used to play mw2 I used to sport at least 2 ppc's in any mech I used simply because they where neat. Now I look at stats and go "Why use it the ERLL is better in the long run." As such the PPC's needed help via making heat sinks work better a DHS should work 2x better then the single not 1.4 {according to info I found correct me if I got it wrong.} I still hold to the fact that the PPC is a Direct Fire Energy weapon not a slow moving disco ball of annoyance.

The GR now the power draw got no issue with But the GR should auto fire when it gets fully charged. Another way to of tackled this would of been to tie engines to an energy rating basically limiting how many "super" weapons could fire at once, gee that may of fixed the high alphas better then ghost heat, maybe.

The Clan ER LL should not of been nerfed they are annoying but still not a major threat the player had to sack a lot of tonnage just to add the targeting computers to make it effective at a massive range, it was imo fairly well done, now it seems really silly just fit 2 cERPPC's the heat draw is more but they will not leave you so exposed.

[Ellen Ripley]

Quote

Adds much higher skill requirement to using the weapon. Beyond 600-700m, you will have to lead your targets in order to hit. If you want instantaneous hits" at longer ranges,then moving to a gauss rifle is what you will want to do.

Either
a) You never seem to have used PPCs above that range
or
b) you are living in a parallel universe
or
c) you found some really good drugs (in which case I'd take some of those as well please)

There really is no other way to explain how you come to the conclusion that beyond 600-700m you did not have to lead your shots with PPCs and that they caused "instantaneous hits" there.

And no, it will now not "Add(s) much higher skill requirement to using the weapon" at long ranges, it will simply require precognitive powers.


If you looked at recent MRBC League matches for example, you would have noticed that balance wasn't far off there actually. How come? Clan Mechs by default are forbidden there. There (Clantech) is your balance problem and not with the PPC weapon system which you just nuked into being a faint shadow of what it is supposed to be.

Edited by Ellen Ripley, 08 August 2014 - 09:32 AM.

[Lostdragon]

So disappointed. The PPC change I can live with but the CERLL is a knee jerk overreaction. Should have been handled differently, that weapon already has a very long beam time and on lights/mediums it is already really hot.

[Livewyr]

deLemming, on 08 August 2014 - 08:03 AM, said:

Could you please nerf ACs, LRMs,SRMs,Gauss, Mg and any kind of laser aswell maybe duration 1000 and heat pen 100. than this would be a excellent laser tag game.

That has been on the radar for a while.

[pwnface]

MAVRICK64, on 08 August 2014 - 09:14 AM, said:

PGI, please do not make these changes at this time. Please post your purposed changes to the community and let us provide feedback/suggestion.

We gave them 50+ pages of feedback that all said "Don't do any of this" which was completely ignored. They went ahead and nerfed PPC speed and then threw on C-ERLL nerfs that were never mentioned. It's pretty clear nobody at PGI even reads these forums, so the past 45 pages have been wasted. You want to see meaningful changes that will make the community happy? No problem, we just need to replace their incompetent staff. Don't support them by buying new shiny mechs until Paul is let go.

[BINDLETORC]

missed a golden opportunity here PGI

Edited by BINDLETORC, 08 August 2014 - 09:36 AM.

[Schroedingers Hat]

Well, testing the new ERLL. Normally I don't use them on heavies and assaults (which I'm gathering is what caused the nerf) but on lights/mediums the nerfs to the ERLL builds are so bad I'm not even mad or upset; more baffled and amused.

[TamCoan]

A funny side effect of these nerfs is that it has saved me money! I had an itch to get the new battlemaster champ that just came out. Love the idea of a dual ppc-wielding battlemaster. Now with the ppc nerf I have no reason to pick that up, woot!

[WM Wraith]

Jalik, on 08 August 2014 - 09:05 AM, said:

not a fair comparison. an AC20 is something entirely different and thus has to be treated differently. also, an AC40 jaeger has another disadvantage.. it's sooooooo easy to kill

AC40 does too much pinpoint damage...for too little penalty. If we use the same logic Paul has applied to the c-ERLL, then it too should be nerfed heavily, or at least more heat than it is now.

So with your easy to kill comments on the Jaeger, I should have been dead in 30 seconds against the clans right?

Against your logic, I played 6 games in my AC40 jaeger during the test, died only twice. Mind you this was near the end of the time period when IS teams were making adjustments to tactics through lessons learned in previous matches. Teams stayed together, focused targets and so I actually played where IS won matches 4 times. Did I suicide rush the clans, nope. Did I try to long range snipe with my AC20 against timberwolves? Nope. I stayed with my team, supported my assaults when they took on the Direwolves and Warhawks, pushed when my Atlas pushed. Team play made the difference in my opinion, not mechs or weapon systems. The Clans outplayed the IS when the IS tried. Most matches the IS just simply wandered off solo, and were scraped off by Clan mechs easy picking. c-ERLL changes will not fix that kind of stupid.

Edited by WM Wraith, 08 August 2014 - 09:38 AM.

[Noesis]

pwnface, on 08 August 2014 - 09:34 AM, said:

We gave them 50+ pages of feedback that all said "Don't do any of this" which was completely ignored. They went ahead and nerfed PPC speed and then threw on C-ERLL nerfs that were never mentioned. It's pretty clear nobody at PGI even reads these forums, so the past 45 pages have been wasted. You want to see meaningful changes that will make the community happy? No problem, we just need to replace their incompetent staff. Don't support them by buying new shiny mechs until Paul is let go.

SO? That feedback was in relation to the gauss/ppc combination. Which was the objective purpose of the study.

Can't help it if the devs who understand the game then realised the potential effects of the change with the potential introduction of leaving other dominant meta in the game as a result. It is anticipating and testing the knock on effects of that study.

I also find it quite funny that people are making their conclusions without any personl testing being done by themselves that the devs have had access to. It is a contradiction almost.

[Daneiel]

Just tested CERLL after the mini pach with the nerf - > terrible , forget them as weapon , it can work to some degree for assault mechs with huge amount of AP to expose them selfs , but for mediums and lights = death / The ghost heat build from 2 CERLL is insane , the duration of the beam again insane - sorry but that thing just killed mediums and the lights for the clans .

[Bigbacon]

PPC is ridiculously slow. anyone else played around in the testing grounds?

you'll never hit a moving target at long range and forget hitting a light.

they are slow......PPC are now going to be delegated to close/medium ranges only, negating the whole ER thing.

[Yokaiko]

Bigbacon, on 08 August 2014 - 09:39 AM, said:

PPC is ridiculously slow. anyone else played around in the testing grounds?

you'll never hit a moving target at long range and forget hitting a light.

they are slow......PPC are now going to be delegated to close/medium ranges only, negating the whole ER thing.

....and adding a pile of heat.