16 replies to this topic

[Carlos Vinson]

I have recently purchased a Hunchback 4J. My piloting/gunnery skills (at this point) frankly...suck, the old hand/eye coordination ain't what they used to be.

I have removed the small laser and put in another heat sink, I am looking to increase my speed, so the question is which engine to buy...standard or XL?
Would removing another Med laser be a good idea for added speed or more ammo?

I thank you in advance.

I'm not completely worthless. I can be used as a bad example.

Addendum: any help on using missile boats would be greatly appreciated.

[Ryokens leap]

Hey Carlos, do not put an xl in Hunchies.

[Carlos Vinson]

Ryokens leap, on 08 August 2014 - 06:57 AM, said:

Hey Carlos, do not put an xl in Hunchies.

This goes in the Bad Thing column I take.

[Just wanna play]

IT is conisdered a bad idea because people like to knock the hunchs off of hunchbacks, and with an xl engine you will die from that, but some say they would rather die then be with out hunch so *shoulder shrug*

[Darwins Dog]

The hunch in a hunchback is the priority target. People will aim for that first. If you put in an XL then you will die when you lose that torso. With a standard engine you still have the head and left arm weapons so you can still fight a bit.

I would recommend getting endo-steel structure (if you haven't already) and using that extra weight for a bigger standard engine.

[IllCaesar]

Never put an XL in a Hunchie unless you're an excellent player trying out a crazy build. Hunchbacks have their, well, hunch, which basically screams "shoot me here!", and it counts as a torso side. When mounting an XL engine, if a torso side is destroyed, the whole mech goes down. You're making yourself an easy kill by doing so.

The 4J was my first mech, and not a bad way to start off if you're not so great of a pilot, like myself.

In my curret 4J, it looks like this:

Endo-Steel Structure
STD 200 Engine
2x LRM 15
4x ML (Three in the Hunch, one in the head)
1x AMS
1x AMS ammo
6X LRM ammo
10x Single Heat Sinks (including 8 from the engine)
272 Standard Armor

I sometimes bounce between four and six tons of ammo for ten to twelve SHS, but more or less, this works out when I'm rusty, as long as you have teammates that are spotting for you. Just avoid using the MLs unless you yourself are directly confronted and try to stay 200m away from the target so that your LRMs properly arm. There are more competitive 4J builds, but this one is relatively cheap, works well for its cost, and allows you to zombie if you lose your hunch.

Edited by MarsAtlas, 08 August 2014 - 07:26 AM.

[Carlos Vinson]

Darwins Dog, on 08 August 2014 - 07:19 AM, said:

I would recommend getting endo-steel structure (if you haven't already) and using that extra weight for a bigger standard engine.

Thanks! Had not thought of that.

[cleghorn6]

Yep. You know that big fat target on your right shoulder? That's why.

General rules for HBK missile boats. Your major advantage is mobility. You're small and fast but don't carry enough missiles to sit back and launch like the big kids do. You should be just behind the main scrimmage, probably 5-600m away to start (closer as you get better), launching missiles at whatever everyone else is shooting at. Essentially your role is to make it hard for the target to see, while everyone else brings them down. You can pick up a lot of kills in this way if your timing is good.

Once the missiles are gone, move in closer and do the same thing with your MLs. This will be significantly less effective but every little helps.

Once you get the hang of this (more than likely after you've completed the Elite skills on the J), you can move closer and do the same thing from about 300m out. This way you can missile and laser at the same time. More shooting = better.

You will need to work on your positioning for 2 reasons. First, to be effective you need to have clear lines of sight to your target, so you'll need to move to where you can see. Direct LoS missile arcs are much lower and faster than indirect. You want your missiles on target flat and fast. Second, you are not big enough to take much heat, so if people in the crowd start to notice you (i.e. you start getting shot), you need to move.

Battlefield awareness is key. Knowing the field, knowing where your side, and their side is going to move to so you can reposition effectively. If you get into a 1 on 1 fight with just about anything halfway competently piloted, you will lose. This is not what the J is for.

Advanced skill: rather than shooting what everyone else is shooting (or if you don't have a shot for some reason) shoot something dangerous and keep the missiles coming. While you're dropping missiles on them, they can't see or aim. Chain fire multiple launchers (unless you're firing into a forest of AMS).

How's that for starters?

[Carlos Vinson]

cleghorn6, on 08 August 2014 - 07:27 AM, said:

How's that for starters?

Scaling the heights of mediocrity!

Seriously...Thank you that is a big help.

[Tesunie]

The Hunchback is a good line of medium mechs, and most of them you can't really go wrong with. XLs are not recommended because, as other people have said, people tend to aim and remove the weapon hunches of those mechs.

On the matter of the 4J, it's a really nice mech even stock. I've been running the 4J almost exclusively for Stock Mech Monday (a user run event), and been doing very well with it. However, in a normal match, the 4J has the same basic weakness of all the Hunchbacks.
The 4J already comes with a decent loadout. I'd just suggest getting Endo steel on for some extra LRM ammo (most players don't conserve their shots as well as I tend to do, so I actually find that 2 or 3 tons of ammo for the dual LRM10s is enough for me most matches) and/or heatsinks. Then upgrade your heat sinks to Double Heat Sinks. Remove the small laser for extra armor (if possible, or 1/2 ton of LRM ammo maybe even), and it should be good to go as an all around support mech that can deal a good punch up close. (Suggest placing your med lasers on chain fire, and then rapidly hit the laser button till you fired the desired amount of lasers to prevent overheating. This is just a suggestion though, and I find it dramatically helps my stock play of the 4J.)

However, if you want the LRMs without the one shoulder weakness, the 4SP is your better option here. I have mine set up with dual ALRM10 and 4 med lasers. This spreads your weapons out more, so a lose of a single side torso is not nearly as debilitating and crippling as it would be otherwise in the 4J. TAG is a good option to try and squeeze into that head energy slot though, as then it's highly placed on your mech and you can better use it to TAG targets with your head just barely above the terrain line.


As far as using LRMs, I have a few guides you can check out. They can be rather lengthy, and I'm sure if you looked into the Guides and Strategy section of the forums, you'd find a lot of other guides on how to use LRMs as well.
MWO: Forums - Lrms, Spotting, And You 6/20/13
MWO: Forums - Guide: How To Spot
MWO: Forums - Lrm Guide: Lrms Require Skill To Properly Use
MWO: Forums - Guide: A Balance Concept To Mech Building

[Flak Kannon]

This is how I run my 4J.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...0e603ef9d0839bb

It has limited range, so you need to learn patience early in a round. For the first 5 minutes, you will really be doing almost nothing.

Stay hidden and try and not to take ANY damage.

By the time your called into service, you can really sway the battle if you pick your target well.

Try and attack what ever a Direwolf, Warhawk or Atlas is attacking so that they focus on them instead of you.. Your Alpha strikes will really dent the bad guys.. and maybe finish them off. Make sure to only Alpha the Medium Lasers one time on hot maps, then chain fire, while still launching all 12 SRM repeatedly. Torso twist away to save your 12 SRM racks from fire.

If you want, it's not a bad idea to put a Medium PULSE laser in the head for those Zombie moments...

this build is really dependent on a good team. If your getting rolled, your die very fast, even with a STD engine... but if you play it well, the durability of the STD engine will allow you to tank a bit.

I like the 4J for a change of pace.

Edited by Flak Kannon, 08 August 2014 - 09:10 AM.

[Red Line Pilot]

Maybe one more interesting thing to point out about the 4J is that it will actually LOOSE it's hunch when you don't equip missile weapons. :-)

[Rear Admiral Tier 6]

STD275,endosteel,6 medium lasers,1 ams,1 ton of ammo,rest heatsinks,and have fun with the toughest jenner on the block.
Really heat efficient and fun to use.2 firing groups,alpha and chainfire.

Jenner XL

[POOTYTANGASAUR]

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...23cae37275ac8ee
Standard engine build.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...eb567360195d0a1
Xl engine build.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...e9e75369fdee07a
Standard engine brawler.

Edited by POOTYTANGASAUR, 08 August 2014 - 09:20 AM.

[Darwins Dog]

MarsAtlas, on 08 August 2014 - 07:24 AM, said:

10x Single Heat Sinks (including 8 from the engine)

I sometimes bounce between four and six tons of ammo for ten to twelve SHS

As an aside, you should always upgrade any mech with double heat sinks. Any build will simply run better with them. You mentioned that this is a cheap build, and DHS are expensive, but worth every cbill. It will turn your engine HS into the equivalent of 16 SHS, and then you will have no trouble taking the extra ammo. Just thought I'd mention it since this is a new player help thread.

[Ngamok]

If you are looking to keep your LRMs:

HBK-4J

You can always down grade the engine for more lasers, heat sinks, ammo, Artemis. Once the ammo gets used up, I go into brawl mode so the speed of the STD 250 is good for me.

My rear torso armor is less than listed there btw.

Edited by Ngamok, 09 August 2014 - 11:19 AM.

[Koniving]

Carlos Vinson, on 08 August 2014 - 06:50 AM, said:

I have recently purchased a Hunchback 4J. My piloting/gunnery skills (at this point) frankly...suck, the old hand/eye coordination ain't what they used to be.

I have removed the small laser and put in another heat sink, I am looking to increase my speed, so the question is which engine to buy...standard or XL?
Would removing another Med laser be a good idea for added speed or more ammo?

I thank you in advance.

Addendum: any help on using missile boats would be greatly appreciated.

If you wanted to use the XL engine...

XL missile boat.
These are pure boats with tiny engines (200-ish engines).

Spoiler

XL 4J Missile, ER PPC, laser boat (255 or higher engine).

Spoiler

You could easily get away with it, provided RT armor is 46 front, 2 rear and you do not let enemies get behind you (given that you can run almost directly away from an enemy and still face it, there's no excuse for letting them get behind you either).

Of course, if missiles were not required, you could drop the Hunch altogether by removing the missiles, and rack in some torso mounted PPCs on the hip. No hunch to shoot at, lesser risk with XL.

-----------

Help using missiles.
Provided that you're using LRMs, separate the arms from the torso by unchecking "Armlock" in the options menu. This frees your "o" crosshair and allows you to use it to track moving targets that you otherwise couldn't reach. Combined with your Left CTRL (free look) key, you can use this to even aim at targets that are around corners and out of sight, provided someone is giving you a C3-style spotting lock (interestingly enough MWO gives every player a C3 system completely tonnage free).

When it comes to tracking faster targets, using the torso crosshair (+) only to lock will result in broken locks. But the arms can move at any mech-possible speed to maintain the lock.

Sadly none of this helps against ECM.

Edited by Koniving, 09 August 2014 - 01:22 PM.