64 replies to this topic

[Lightfoot]

Ghost Heat itself is just a way to cheat the Battle Tech game system and say they are making a Battle Tech game.

Again, the way you stop Energy weapon boating, which has always been a problem in MechWarrior games, is you place a hard heat-cap on the mechs where if they go past a certain game-breaking heat level the mech explodes. Then the higher heat of Clan Energy weapons balances the builds. Safety shutdown still works for normal builds and no damage is incurred like it is now. Shutdowns could last longer.

If they have to add Ghost heat to firing 2x ER Large PGI should just throw in the towel and move on to something else. Ghost heat is ridiculous in itself, but Ghost Heat for firing two ER Large is a failure to balance.

And the mechs I see scoring the most Laser damage are Stalkers, Thunderbolt 5SS, by a huge margin. I think the beam duration blocks the added range of CERLL's and the 9 heat with DHS 1.4 blocks boating CERLL.

I look at my mechs and none have more than two CERLL's anyway.

I hope this is not about balancing something in CW because that game is too tied to the maze-maps they need to make to protect an Orbital Cannon. It really has no relationship to actual mech vs mech combat and any imbalance in CW is an artifact of the weird gametype they have constructed around it.

You are ruining MWO, PGI.

Edited by Lightfoot, 20 September 2015 - 05:24 AM.

[tokumboh]

If clan tech is supposed to be better then it should be better. what I do think is that it should 'cost' more and should be capped in some way, either by weight or battle mech number or some other method alternatively you could make hit by a IS mech score more in the PSR when they are against a Clanner.

I kind of like the idea of matching battle tech number so you can have a level of unpredictability in game you could have 10v12 or I'd prefer 16v16 as a maximum with variations down to 16v12 for an all IS versus all Clan it would mean less attempts at balancing mechs and people can choose what they want knowing that because it is a team game if you choose clan tech team work is very important.

[Leopardo]

ok - its better already - ok we have no balance for now - but dude - will you play and do you want to suffer for IS? really how many players go for IS even if they have 12 faces on 10, i just curious how many really will play for IS in that case. with lower guns and quirks. when you cant kill a clanner 1x1
also - lets try it really - allwe need is to create premium private match with this setting 12x10 and let IS use not best mechs and load. and we will see!

Edited by Leopardo, 21 September 2015 - 01:06 AM.

[grayson marik]

I would rather see a proper BV system.

[Vellron2005]

If they do 10 vs 12, it is only viable for CW... group and solo ques are still "unbalanced" in the eyes of most players..

So it solves only part of the problem..

Lets just wait and see what "The Great Rebalance" will bring.. when the smoke clears, the whining can continue..

Untill then.. IS vs CLAN balance is a "moo point".

(Like a cow's opinion. It dosen't matter)

Edited by Vellron2005, 21 September 2015 - 03:51 AM.

[Leopardo]

aGree with this - but tottal rebalance is - as i see now on PTS very very very .........very - looks like not balance)))

[Lightfoot]

They have given some mechs over the top quirks. Those are the CW mechs mostly, like when the TDR-9S had the ERPPC quirks .....that should have gone to the AWS-9M if we are playing a Battle Tech game, right? All you saw in CW was TDR-9S, practically. I would see 3 and 4 at a time anyway.

No matter what, placing a ghost heat penalty on firing 2 Clan ER Large is foolish and PGI should just start over with MWO mechs and weapons. Rebuild the whole game from scratch or just let it go.

If there is anything really OP about a mech or load-out that is all you would be seeing, as in the case of the TDR-9S. The rest of it is just player choice driven.

If there is anything OP about Lasers in general and thereby the ER Large Laser, PGI created that themselves when they nerfed Gauss, PPC's, and LRMs etc. MechWarrior balance is more scissors, paper, stone than all weapons are equal at any range. The latter is more noob friendly, but comes at the expense of gameplay depth and you will never truly balance them anyway. One will always be best and be the "Meta".

Ghost Heat is such a knuckle-dragging designed system that it is not what you would use for just two weapons paired together. You can't monkey wrench Battle Tech's built in system of group-fire. MechWarrior is not Quake.

[Spare Parts Bin]

I have a unique perspective as I started in late 2013 playing IS vs IS. Then came the Clans. Some IS Mechs are good at confronting Clan-Tech this list includes Stalkers,Battlemasters,Catapults,Cataphracts,Shadow Hawks,Black Jacks,most IS lights but especially the Raven with twin ERLLS.

I would rather see Clan units of 5 just like the lore vs IS units of 4 which lends itself to 10 vs 12.

If you think Clans are P2P, have PGI outfit you elited Omnis, 1 Warhawk-B,1 Ebon Jaguar-B, one Adder-P,and an Adder-B. Now play as an attacker on Boreal Vault against an IS premade of 6 front one unit and 6 PUGs from good units like 228 or Lord,etc. Then tell me Clan is OP or P2P.

[Ryoken]

No because it will screw mech balancing for public que and also would make Clan mechs more powerfull 1/10th of the teams impact to the pilot compared to IS mechs with only 1/12th. No one would play IS mechs anymore within months.

PGI does the only right thing by taking the challenge to balance IS and Clan mechs. Maybe they should think of adding the complete set of weapons to IS mechs like ER- and Pulse variants of all lasers and so on to achieve that goal. And remember, the creators of battletech themselfes did admit they made a terrible mistake with introducing the imbalanced Clan tech. So it is only natural that Clan tech needs a nerv or IS tech needs a buff to make a game with both playable.

Edited by Ryoken, 21 September 2015 - 01:06 PM.

[Jaeger Gonzo]

Ryoken, on 21 September 2015 - 01:06 PM, said:

No because it will screw mech balancing for public que and also would make Clan mechs more powerfull 1/10th of the teams impact to the pilot compared to IS mechs with only 1/12th. No one would play IS mechs anymore within months.

That`s a myth. You got many asymmetrical games around that proof that. Besides I`m not sure how do you come to that asymmetrical mean unbalance and easy walk on one of the sides. You guys lacking of basic understandings of game balancing that do not do all same 1 to 1 and prefer symmetrical unbalance? That`s how it is since clan introduction, easy mode for claners in symmetrical unbalanced game.
Besides I do not recall such a thing with clans introduction with clearly OP clans to 10v16 point. MM did not fall off a part, people were still playing IS, even without any additional reward.

[Leopardo]

w/o reword - to suffer)) i dont belive it dude - everybody here pls tell me - how many matches you will play in row - if this mathes will be defited matches (lose)? and then when you switch to CLAN to get your WIN! ha? only thing i whant now - after this opinions is - lets try it for real !!!! lets create loaouts list and make 10x12 drops. players PUG style - no commader. and all from different units. or LW, and then we will see will it works on PUG mode or its not.

Edited by Leopardo, 21 September 2015 - 10:54 PM.

[Serpentbane]

I'd rather have several drops per round, based on tonage and mech score. That way a player can choose several smaller mechs or a few assaults. Also, Clan mechs should have a higher score making them become fewer in numbers.

I explain this in more detail in this thread under Multiple drops per round, and asymetric drop numbers.. Not trying to highjack this thread, but I', lazy.
http://mwomercs.com/...-down-the-road/

Edited by Serpentbane, 22 September 2015 - 12:53 AM.

[Leopardo]

Guys - in color of new - 12x12 balance with no 3 3 3 3 rule - i think 10 vs be an answear!!!!!!!!!! - its new game mode - INVASION SKIRMISH!!!!!

[Karl Streiger]

10 vs 12 invasion stock only? Could be worth trying - when you limit the number of SCR and TBRs

[Jaeger Gonzo]

Leopardo, on 21 September 2015 - 10:53 PM, said:

w/o reword - to suffer)) i dont belive it dude - everybody here pls tell me - how many matches you will play in row - if this mathes will be defited matches (lose)? and then when you switch to CLAN to get your WIN! ha? only thing i whant now - after this opinions is - lets try it for real !!!! lets create loaouts list and make 10x12 drops. players PUG style - no commader. and all from different units. or LW, and then we will see will it works on PUG mode or its not.

Thing was tested already for PGI some time ago before quirks. Was fun and worked fine for all as far as I can tell.

Some of you guys have very close boxed minds.
Why do you presume that claners would Win in asymmetrical settings? Our testings tell exactly opposite. Clans would have hard time trying to beat numbers and would be just an interesting challenge for both sides, probably giving an edge to well drilled IS.

Karl Streiger, on 02 October 2015 - 02:12 AM, said:

10 vs 12 invasion stock only? Could be worth trying - when you limit the number of SCR and TBRs

We tested it in Stock already. Was great fun playing on both sides. But the right numbers are around 5v8.

[Leopardo]

when ever there will be more time to test it 8x12 i want to join that tests both sides!!!!!!!!

Edited by Leopardo, 02 October 2015 - 05:03 AM.

[Jaeger Gonzo]

Well after the quirks, balance in Stock settings became way off, so we suspended for now the event. Maybe after new quirk pass Stock would be fun again. And The Stock Button was promised after all, so then would be easy to everyone.

Edited by Jaeger Gonzo, 02 October 2015 - 05:09 AM.

[Karl Streiger]

Jaeger Gonzo, on 02 October 2015 - 05:06 AM, said:

And The Stock Button was promised after all

Can't wait to have one -

[Leopardo]

anyway i want to play IS vs Clams both sides to test it more) and for fun)

Edited by Leopardo, 02 October 2015 - 05:25 AM.

[Vetal]

Karl Streiger, on 02 October 2015 - 05:24 AM, said:

Can't wait to have one -

we'll see how many players play it)
So, don't be too much happy about that)
I predict that nobody will play ballistic and missile mechs, because they need either much more powerfull weapons or much more amount of ammo.
Most of players will be dissapointed of it. You'll play just laserboats.

Edited by Vetal, 02 October 2015 - 06:56 AM.