470 replies to this topic

[Lefty Lucy]

BLOOD WOLF, on 09 August 2014 - 12:31 PM, said:

I would have to go back and re-watch the last few to see. I Know he said talked about that misconception

I just mean, did he say that comp players caring about or not caring about balance was a misconception. It's not quite clear to me from what you said.

[BLOOD WOLF]

Mark Brandhauber, on 09 August 2014 - 12:11 PM, said:

no offense but very few of the competitive players have interest in balance, so what makes them useful in this regard.

BLOOD WOLF, on 09 August 2014 - 12:18 PM, said:

I think that is a misconception that JagerXII pointed out in a podcast.

How was that not clear? What he said was a misconception that I heard Jager point out in a podcast. Come to think of it he also repeated it in a stream

Edited by BLOOD WOLF, 09 August 2014 - 12:36 PM.

[Gyrok]

Noth, on 08 August 2014 - 03:44 PM, said:

Actually, the competitive players don't even know who these"competitive players" were. They've also not been aproving teh heavy handed nerfs just like the any others.

Ironically, there are some that actually claim to have been behind such nefarious things as:

Ghost Heat
Gauss Charge mechanic
PPC changes
AC Nerfs
Victor Nerf
Highlander Nerf
Jump Jet Nerf

Some of those I understand, some of those I completely disagree with. (The idea that ghost heat would be a good idea, and that more than one person thought so, is a bit baffling...)

[Lightfoot]

Adiuvo, on 09 August 2014 - 12:31 PM, said:

...

...

Gauss was relatively synced with PPCs before this change. AC5s were completely synced with them only a few patches ago.

Now AC10s are. What is the optimal range on the AC10? What is the optimal range on the AC5?

No it wasn't. Gauss and PPCs/ ERPPCs were 500 meters per second difference, 2000 mps and 1500 mps. That's very easy to break up by moving laterally. AC10 is 950mps, and now ERPPC is 950mps and PPC is 850mps. You can't break that up. That's a 40 to 50 pinpoint hit each time they fire! I know many players do not realize they can break-up most pinpont alphas by moving laterally, but you can until the speeds are less than 100-150mps apart, even at relatively close range.

Certainly the stacked ERPPC and AC10 combos are now a solid bolt being in total sychronization. Much faster recharge and more accurate than the Gauss+PPC combo the nerf was supposed to address. You will see when you get hit by these and go, "ghee whiz, Wally, I thought 3xGauss Rifles were impossible!" Then you look at your damage record and see AC10 and PPC, but no Gauss Rifle.

Edited by Lightfoot, 09 August 2014 - 01:01 PM.

[nehebkau]

o0Marduk0o, on 09 August 2014 - 09:27 AM, said:

Yes, the fall dmg seems to be capped, they should remove the cap! Well, I am sure you mean something else but seriously, fall dmg is ok now.

you don't pilot a light do you? Every walk off a 3 meter hill at 150 kph and have your leg armor turn oj from leg damage?

[Bluetavius]

Gyrok, on 09 August 2014 - 12:43 PM, said:

(The idea that ghost heat would be a good idea, and that more than one person thought so, is a bit baffling...)

There were only over 9000 threads about wanting such a system in CB (because lol HBK-4P)

[Y E O N N E]

Lightfoot, on 09 August 2014 - 12:55 PM, said:

No it wasn't. Gauss and PPCs/ ERPPCs were 500 meters per second difference, 2000 mps and 1500 mps. That's very easy to break up by moving laterally. AC10 is 950mps, and now ERPPC is 950mps and PPC is 850mps. You can't break that up. That's a 40 to 50 pinpoint hit each time they fire! I know many players do not realize they can break-up most pinpont alphas by moving laterally, but you can until the speeds are less than 100-150mps apart, even at relatively close range.

Certainly the stacked ERPPC and AC10 combos are now a solid bolt being in total sychronization. Much faster recharge and more accurate than the Gauss+PPC combo the nerf was supposed to address. You will see when you get hit by these and go, "ghee whiz, Wally, I thought 3xGauss Rifles were impossible!" Then you look at your damage record and see AC10 and PPC, but no Gauss Rifle.

You do realize that, with practice, you can easily sync up any two weapons by staggering your triggers, right? Syncing Gauss with PPCs was easy. Syncing Gauss with PPCs is still easy, it just takes more practice to adjust to the new projectile speed.

[Deathlike]

Bluetavius, on 09 August 2014 - 01:11 PM, said:

There were only over 9000 threads about wanting such a system in CB (because lol HBK-4P)

TBH, most of that were for penalties for overheating... besides damage... like slower movement, lower heat dissipation, chance for ammo explosion...etc. I'm not speaking of overheating above 100% either... just getting into the 80 to 100% heat capacity territory.

Edited by Deathlike, 09 August 2014 - 01:15 PM.

[keith]

Deathlike, on 09 August 2014 - 01:14 PM, said:

TBH, most of that were for penalties for overheating... besides damage... like slower movement, lower heat dissipation, chance for ammo explosion...etc. I'm not speaking of overheating above 100% either... just getting into the 80 to 100% heat capacity territory.

^this what we got was a random internal dam spot for over riding and dam to CT

[Sandpit]

http://mwomercs.com/...titive-players/

I'd like to know who those players or units he's speaking with are. I'd really like to know this since every comp scene player I've talked to (and had several PM me personally) have not heard of a single player in the comp scene every wanting either of these nerfs. So if not them who? (My bet is on their NGNG buddies)

Bluetavius, on 09 August 2014 - 01:11 PM, said:

There were only over 9000 threads about wanting such a system in CB (because lol HBK-4P)

no, there were 9000 threads wanting PGI to do something about FLD and PPD, not requesting a complicated heat system that punishes every single build outside of high alpha PPD builds, that was snuck in without a word, and has been universally hated ever since.

PGI chose ghost heat to answer those calls. How did that wind up working....? Oh yea, it didn't

[Wingbreaker]

nehebkau, on 09 August 2014 - 01:00 PM, said:

you don't pilot a light do you? Every walk off a 3 meter hill at 150 kph and have your leg armor turn oj from leg damage?

LOL WUT IS THROTTLE?

[Wingbreaker]

Sandpit, on 09 August 2014 - 01:31 PM, said:

PGI chose ghost heat to answer those calls. How did that wind up working....? Oh yea, it didn't

Not that I think the 6PPC stalker/awesomes were anything but gimmicks, but they sure as **** were gone quick.

So yeah, actually, it did.

Not that you've realized the entire point was to ease down on alpha damage with no consequences.

[Sandpit]

Wingbreaker, on 09 August 2014 - 01:38 PM, said:

Not that I think the 6PPC stalker/awesomes were anything but gimmicks, but they sure as **** were gone quick.

So yeah, actually, it did.

Not that you've realized the entire point was to ease down on alpha damage with no consequences.

and?
There's lots of thigns they could have done to get the same results. That doesn't make ghost heat "good". Just because they chose a bad system doesn't mean it was the best system, or even a decent system. It hampered everything else instead of addressing FLD and PPD high point alphas. Those 6 PPCs wouldn't have been that big of an issue if they all had to track and combine to get all 6 of them aiming at the same spot.

[Wingbreaker]

Sandpit, on 09 August 2014 - 01:42 PM, said:

and?
There's lots of thigns they could have done to get the same results. That doesn't make ghost heat "good". Just because they chose a bad system doesn't mean it was the best system, or even a decent system. It hampered everything else instead of addressing FLD and PPD high point alphas. Those 6 PPCs wouldn't have been that big of an issue if they all had to track and combine to get all 6 of them aiming at the same spot.

"It hampered everything else..."

Yeah, because Novas would've been totally balanced without GH.

Genius, Sandpit. ******* genius.

[o0Marduk0o]

nehebkau, on 09 August 2014 - 01:00 PM, said:

you don't pilot a light do you? Every walk off a 3 meter hill at 150 kph and have your leg armor turn oj from leg damage?

Your "3 meter hill[s]" are much bigger, you might be confused with the scale. The new 37m/s limit makes it easy for lights unless you jump down a cliff but this is not what you should do in general without jumpjets.

[Mcgral18]

Wingbreaker, on 09 August 2014 - 01:43 PM, said:

"It hampered everything else..."

Yeah, because Novas would've been totally balanced without GH.

Genius, Sandpit. ******* genius.

Well....had there been a better heat system...you couldn't have simultaneously fired 6 PPCs without exploding, nor fired a dozen lasers.


But, hey, Ghost heat.

[Adiuvo]

Lightfoot, on 09 August 2014 - 12:55 PM, said:

No it wasn't. Gauss and PPCs/ ERPPCs were 500 meters per second difference, 2000 mps and 1500 mps. That's very easy to break up by moving laterally. AC10 is 950mps, and now ERPPC is 950mps and PPC is 850mps. You can't break that up. That's a 40 to 50 pinpoint hit each time they fire! I know many players do not realize they can break-up most pinpont alphas by moving laterally, but you can until the speeds are less than 100-150mps apart, even at relatively close range.

Certainly the stacked ERPPC and AC10 combos are now a solid bolt being in total sychronization. Much faster recharge and more accurate than the Gauss+PPC combo the nerf was supposed to address. You will see when you get hit by these and go, "ghee whiz, Wally, I thought 3xGauss Rifles were impossible!" Then you look at your damage record and see AC10 and PPC, but no Gauss Rifle.

They were fast enough that the time they took to travel was not enough to separate out naturally between components under roughly 700m.

Edited by Adiuvo, 09 August 2014 - 02:02 PM.

[keith]

Wingbreaker, on 09 August 2014 - 01:38 PM, said:

Not that I think the 6PPC stalker/awesomes were anything but gimmicks, but they sure as **** were gone quick.

So yeah, actually, it did.

Not that you've realized the entire point was to ease down on alpha damage with no consequences.

all ghost heat did was switch around builds. it still leaves MANY 30-40 pinpoint builds. that is where the problem lies. 30-40 strips light and medium mechs to internal armor on 1-2 shots. a skilled player will not miss the next kill shot. never fear pgi does a amazing job at balance...

[Adiuvo]

keith, on 09 August 2014 - 02:05 PM, said:

all ghost heat did was switch around builds. it still leaves MANY 30-40 pinpoint builds. that is where the problem lies. 30-40 strips light and medium mechs to internal armor on 1-2 shots. a skilled player will not miss the next kill shot. never fear pgi does a amazing job at balance...

Yeah I'll take that over being one shot by a 45 damage Highlander or a 60 shot from a Stalker.

[Sandpit]

Wingbreaker, on 09 August 2014 - 01:43 PM, said:

"It hampered everything else..."

Yeah, because Novas would've been totally balanced without GH.

Genius, Sandpit. ******* genius.

laser boats
missile boats
any mech containing more than 2 of a lot of weapon even if they're doing it in a balanced loadout

Because ghost heat was the only option to balance a mech that wasn't even thought of at the time right?
Pull your pants up sir, your ignorance is showing.

Just like PGI, you are attempting to use one extreme example (that didn't even remotely exist at the time ghost heat was implemented which just shows even more ignorance) to justify ghost heat like it was the only way to prevent that. Would you like to try again?