11 replies to this topic

[MasterBLB]

Devs and Community Managers,


I'd like to ask you for what you create all these feedback threads if you have in arse our feedback?I'm really curious about that.
Like it was lately about module system,then latest weapons nerfs,and earlier about introduction of 3rd person mode.
Seriously guys,if you're going to ignore the feedback in the future just stop pretend you care about it,and just don't make such threads as it does not make sense.

regards,
MasterBLB

Edited by MasterBLB, 12 August 2014 - 03:49 AM.

[Savage Wolf]

Not that I'm defending PGI's decisions, but there is a clear difference between listening to feedback and complying to feedback.

And the fact that some of these implementations did get changed after lots of feedback tells us that they do listen.

You might want them to consider the ideas you agree with even more than they currently do, but that is something different.

[MasterBLB]

Well...
If I recall correctly there was a poll about 3rd person camera - ~3000 peoples voted no,~250 yes.But that 3k was not a "representative group" for PGI.But that was over a year ago,maybe things has been changed since then.Though I doubt that.
But some fresher feedback - module system changes,I followed the thread daily,and vast majority don't like it.And what PGI does?Nothing,just really minor change that only artillery or airstrike can be equipped,ignoring the fact it's mech modules number back is what most of players want.
And latest thread about PPC and C-ER LL is ongoing,you can see there how happy about are players.

Edited by MasterBLB, 11 August 2014 - 01:36 AM.

[Savage Wolf]

But do you have any idea how to read feedback? You can't just take feedback from a forum at face value, it's full of bias and dislike for change. You have to read through all that, take the suggestions and info you didn't have before and then consider if that warrents any change of plans.

You also need to consider when reading feedback that some people will not tell their opinion mostly because they either are satisfied with the change, they don't care. Mostly when people defend a change here on the forum it's simply because they are tired and unsatisfied that others complain. Such is human nature.

A good example is the constant threads about LRMS being op. Considering that there is always someone for and against the current state in those threads shows that the mayority are actually satisfied.

Again, I'm not defending PGIs decisions, I'm just trying to say, they do read the feedback. What you are unsatisfied with is what they do with it.

[Enigmos]

The merit of asking for thoughts is to discover lines of inquiry you overlooked. What you determine may well vary from what was recommended, but it is a way to discover what you might have overlooked.

We tend to approach feedback as if design were a democratic institution. A scholar will approach feedback to learn whether there is something they hadn't considered.

Artistry is not a result of democracy. Sometimes the product turns out a bit surreal, but...

Edited by OriginalTibs, 11 August 2014 - 04:34 AM.

[MasterBLB]

Well,if such is not a valid feedback then I've no idea what is:
http://mwomercs.com/...27#entry3599327
in the thread there are several other valuable posts like mine,and many of statements peoples don't like the change.
So,even if what you claim Savage Wolf is true and it's hard to read all the post (heh,I though PGI have workers which are paid for) then please explain why they don't make a public poll in launcher/in game with say "Do you like change to module system?yes/no/I don't care" ?Well,because they don't care about our opinion.In no other game I've ever seen such force in introducing changes not welcomed by community.
Also,and that's another mistake PGI is constantly doing is imagining problems then fighting them,like Dual PPC+Gauss which resulted nerfs in C-ER LL.

[amisu]

I bet PGI has a good laugh every time they visit this forum.

[Savage Wolf]

MasterBLB, on 11 August 2014 - 04:37 AM, said:

Well,if such is not a valid feedback then I've no idea what is:
http://mwomercs.com/...27#entry3599327
in the thread there are several other valuable posts like mine,and many of statements peoples don't like the change.

I never said of the feedback isn't valid or not taken into consideration, but it's often not enough. But it is still data and it still shows that decision is not made without a cost, but maybe one worth paying.

MasterBLB, on 11 August 2014 - 04:37 AM, said:

So,even if what you claim Savage Wolf is true and it's hard to read all the post (heh,I though PGI have workers which are paid for) then please explain why they don't make a public poll in launcher/in game with say "Do you like change to module system?yes/no/I don't care" ?Well,because they don't care about our opinion.In no other game I've ever seen such force in introducing changes not welcomed by community.

The very fact that they have someone hired to read feedback should tell you that they do read it. It's data and tells them the state of the community. And why make polls are terrible data. It's only the bare minimum if data and always fails to answer why.
But it would help to have a poll made inside the client that you could answer while playing. It would make other people than just the vocal minority answer, but it would take time to code that could be used better elsewhere and it would annoy players. So they prolly wont do that.
And there is no reason to make a poll on the forum, if you are here you are already ready to write in detail why you have the oppinion that you have. Okay, some write in detail, but still. So it's much better data.

[MasterBLB]

Wolf,I'm not denying that they read the feedback.What I do is they simply don't pay attention to it,especially if it is against something they want to introduce - and we are almost always object because they usually mess up what is not broken (till they touch that)
And nope,I didn't mean a poll on forum,but directly in game.

[Darth Futuza]

Not all feedback is feedback they should bother implementing. Frankly sometimes there are some stupid suggestions.

[Savage Wolf]

MasterBLB, on 12 August 2014 - 02:00 PM, said:

Wolf,I'm not denying that they read the feedback.What I do is they simply don't pay attention to it, especially if it is against something they want to introduce - and we are almost always object because they usually mess up what is not broken (till they touch that)

Well I originally responded to your claim that they ignored the feedback which simply isn't true, they read it. And as to how much attention is put into the feedback depends on subject and matter. But they wouldn't waste man hours gather feedback if they weren't going to look at it.
And several times feedback has had an effect. You can now shoot two C-ERLL without ghost heat again. They extra module slot for mastering a mech is a mech slot instead of a weapon slot. LRMs got nerfed a little again after their initial buff (and proof that PGI does not only nerf weapons). But this too is human nature, because people have short memory. Incredibly short memory. And to read feedback you need see past this as well.


And yes, when PGI changes things they do so for a reason (that we might disagree with it), they have an agenda, a plan. So they do the changes and then what they need to know is, did it work. Feedback might tell them if the changes had unforseen side effects or doesn't serve it's purpose. Objections are to be expected when changing things and have already been taking into consideration. The exception is if the damage to the angered part is bigger than anticipated.
And when feedback sometimes shows that they did something wrong or did too much, they will not do as many always tell them to: roll it back. They had a reason to make that change to begin with and that reason probably still stands. They just need to either adjust to minimize damage, but still gain what they hoped for, or do something entirely different.
And there is also feedback that you and I cannot see. The majority of players never touch the forums so they are silent here. But their game data still tells a story and some changes are there for their benefit and PGI can see if they are happy. So when the forums are ablaze with anger, sometimes the silent players are rejoicing. So the claim that everyone hates this or that change is always false.

MasterBLB, on 12 August 2014 - 02:00 PM, said:

And nope,I didn't mean a poll on forum,but directly in game.

Yeah, I talked about that possibility too.

Edited by Savage Wolf, 12 August 2014 - 03:38 PM.

[LastPaladin]

Savage Wolf, on 11 August 2014 - 12:52 AM, said:

Not that I'm defending PGI's decisions, but there is a clear difference between listening to feedback and complying to feedback.

Yes, there is a difference:

Listening to feedback gives the illusion that the devs care about the players' concerns, while actually acting on the feedback would demonstrate that they actually do care.