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I Finally Understand Why Some Complain About Lrms.....

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#1 mogs01gt

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Posted 11 August 2014 - 04:46 AM

So I've been trying to master my Griffins and purchased the 1n. Im running it with 3 chained LRM10s and 3 MLs. I rarely blind fire because in a medium mech, I dont have the ammo to simply waste a few salvos, I must maint locks in order for the mech to do damage. I only have a few matches in the mech but I can sort of understand some player's complaints towards LRMs. Im running with a 5.0 kdr in her but it's not because LRMs are OP...

Every match where I was getting 2 or 3 kills are from three simple facts:
1. Other team didnt have any ECM mechs. And if they did, the ECM mechs were too busy sniping and not helping cloak their team from LRMs. Lack of proper ECM cloak!
2. Leaving cover to go after a kill. I killed two TBR's trying to kill my Warhawk. I positioned properly at their rear or side and unleshed LRMs on them. Simple fix to a simple issue, there is never such thing as an easy kill in this game and cover is your friend.
3. Some maps simply have lack of cover but there is another side to this. I peaked around a corner and got my left arm shot off by an alpha...cover works for all weapons


The game's I lost were mainly due to my teammates going Leeroy Jenkins and dying in the first few minutes or my opponents using superior tactics. Last game I played we got flanked badly and got *****!!! Flank them LRM mechs and enjoy the smell of burnt metal!

Mogs

Edited by mogs01gt, 11 August 2014 - 04:52 AM.


#2 l33tworks

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Posted 11 August 2014 - 05:27 AM

Groundbreaking stuff. Unique. Inspirational.

#3 mogs01gt

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Posted 11 August 2014 - 05:32 AM

View Postl33tworks, on 11 August 2014 - 05:27 AM, said:

Groundbreaking stuff. Unique. Inspirational.

Damn Aussie with the sarcasm! :)

#4 Alistair Winter

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Posted 11 August 2014 - 06:00 AM

View Postl33tworks, on 11 August 2014 - 05:27 AM, said:

Groundbreaking stuff. Unique. Inspirational.

Hey, don't be so hard on the guy, l33tworks. He's probably a new player, only been playing a few weeks, just trying to figure the game out.

<checks join date>

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#5 mogs01gt

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Posted 11 August 2014 - 06:14 AM

View PostAlistair Winter, on 11 August 2014 - 06:00 AM, said:

Hey, don't be so hard on the guy, l33tworks. He's probably a new player, only been playing a few weeks, just trying to figure the game out.

<checks join date>

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We need more LRMs are fine posts rather than nerf LRM posts.

#6 Fire and Salt

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Posted 11 August 2014 - 06:26 AM

Wait until you are in an assault mech and get stuck with a narc on caustic valley....

Only then will you know the pain that LRMs can cause.

#7 Aim64C

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Posted 11 August 2014 - 06:33 AM



I've posted this elsewhere - but I think it kind of captures LRMs quite well.

Whether or not what happened was 'okay' or 'seriously overpowered what the hell' depends largely upon your perspective.

I see the fact that I vaporized the left side of a timberwolf in a few seconds followed by the fact that I made a poor judgment call as I thought we were being charged from my immediate flank - so I chose to open myself up to the 100 LRM tubes (1 LRM60 stalker and 1 LRM40 battlemaster). And I paid the price.

Which was, interestingly enough, a very long and drawn out one. I still survive to return to my cover after being under LRM fire for roughly 10 seconds (kind of hard to tell exactly where it starts since there were explosions everywhere).

I think it depends upon whether one is introspective as to how they interpret LRMs. I see more of my own mistakes than "bullshit build" - though some of the instant arm removal weapons kind of piss me off - but I don't necessarily think it means things need to be 'nerfed.'

I think most people are not introspective - they just look for another person or party to fault. It's easier than seeing how one's self can improve.

#8 mogs01gt

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Posted 11 August 2014 - 06:35 AM

View PostFire and Salt, on 11 August 2014 - 06:26 AM, said:

Wait until you are in an assault mech and get stuck with a narc on caustic valley....
Only then will you know the pain that LRMs can cause.

Placing the blame on equipment when it's a map issue is not how weapons are balanced.

#9 Sky Hunter

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Posted 11 August 2014 - 07:59 AM

Mog is hardly new or he has OCD about posting as often as possible.

Tips that will help players avoid LRMs.

IS LRMs tend to have a sharper ascent and steep drop off, they are visually clustered and have a bright yellow corona.
Clan LRMs have a smoother ascent and descent, and will track slightly upwards when chasing a mech down a slope in the last 1/4 second.

LRMs track you in flight, but in the last second of flight do not change course, and can be avoided by your mech changing course in the last second unless tracking a NARCed target. NARCed mech missile tracking will track to the last 1/4 second which makes them very hard to dodge. Dodged LRMs on a Narc tracked mech will generally hit something with very few misses. Dodged LRMs by a currently tagged mech might as well be tracking a NARCed mech.

The key to dodging Tag and or visual lock targeted LRMs is simple. Break visual and or Tag contact, moving directly away from the fired missiles until the last second where you turn the feet and torso of the mech both left or right of the in flight LRMs.

Turning the torso reduces the profile, moving out of the path sideways in the last second prevents missiles from hitting feet/legs. A LRM 20 firing in 2 or 3 bursts to send off entire volley will be avoided without further movement as the second and third burst will hit exactly where the first hit provided you are not moving directly from the direction of the launched LRMs as they will continue to track further down range than the first burst impact unless you turned and thus sidestepped the first burst impact.

Chain fired LRMs often follow the above statement, and a subsequent volley fired after you are no longer in visual or tagged contact will be launched at your new location with ZERO tracking allowing you to take 2 steps back to avoid the follow up duration even though and because you are no longer visual/tagged.

Down Slope dodging is easier the flat ground dodging as you can see the incoming missiles, at 250/300m, do not expect to dodge as that is .75 second flight time, but movement out of the way will mitigate damage from torso/arms/head to the legs depending on your speed, spreading out damage and possibly avoiding most if able to burst speed fast to the side or away.

Tall rock outcroppings, buildings taller than the mech you are in and friendly and or enemy mechs make great protection more so if they are chasing close directly behind you away from the fired LRMs. Friendly mechs with AMS are the ones to hide behind if not taller enemies.

NARCs do not broadcast when within range of allied ECM, when Narcs, run toward your ECMers if any nearby. Once the enemies quit shooting at you the NARC is usually gone or you found adequate cover that their LRMs were in vain and they stopped firing to conserve ammo for viable targets.

Tags stop broadcasting your location about 1/2 second after you break the tag contact.

Running out in the open where there is no cover is always a bad idea. Running directly away from missiles is also a very bad idea unless you plan to turn in the extreme near future, a light mech does not want to take leg hits as a mech that is sitting still is often a dead mech.


Extra Tips
Tip to tricking enemy into running out into the open so that your team's LRMs can do allot more damage is to slow quickly to walking speed right before you walk behind concealment, making them think your are crippled. Wait in cover about 15 second then "limp" back into the open for a second to see if they gave chase, if they did, run back into cover and speed away quickly in reverse, locking onto the enemies coming at you and tagging or NARCing if possible before you turn sideways and run away at a new vector. The faster your mech is, the more blood thirsty the enemy will be, this can be used to turn the tide of battle into your team's favor because every enemy chasing you is 1 more that is charging toward or away from your team and not firing on your team.

Draining enemy AMS, if you see the enemy has allot of AMS running in an area and missiles are not getting through because of it, tell your team to stop firing LRMs in that area and have 1 mech fire LRMs in that general area WITH OR WITHOUT LOCK. All enemy AMS in that area will fire on those LRMs and will drain enemy AMS ammo from multiple targets, this also will allow your team mates to visually see where the AMS shots are coming from even if they cant see the mechs themselves.

Low signal means enemy mech is near you and jamming you with ECM, above, below, behind a building, if you cant see enemy around you, this is a warning that there is one.

When enemy is jamming your ECM, turn your Jamming on and run around quickly to find the Jammer, keep him in range and lock/tag/narc him. Your friendly LRMs can do the rest if you keep him in jamming range and in your visual/lock/tag.

Spotting enemy with SSRM boat is like sweet sweet heaven if you are in an ECM mech as they cannot fire at you without lock and your ECM counters beagle active probe unless you get close enough for the beagle to block your ecm.

Command console and Targeting computers reduce the time it takes to get missile lock, Artemis enhances this reduced time even more. Narc+Artemis target acquisition time do not combine for further reduction, Narc Value replaces Artemis (or the other way around). Tag and Narc combined plus CC or TC III is instant target lock (.01 second) except of ECM protected enemy mechs (about 2.5 seconds as the Narc does not get it's bonus because of ECM).

Outfitting your fast light mech with both TAG and NARC will be even better if you can jam the enemy ecmers and provide UAV at same time.

#10 mogs01gt

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Posted 11 August 2014 - 08:05 AM

Another trick:
Find that high cover and let the LRM mechs lock onto you. A lot of bad players will keep firing and wasting ammo while you dip behind cover. I did this to 3 TBRs and a Cat, I had like a LRM150 coming at me. The lolz I had while they hit the building!

You can even let them hit your shield arm to get them hungrier!

Edited by mogs01gt, 11 August 2014 - 08:05 AM.


#11 Willard Phule

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Posted 11 August 2014 - 08:06 AM

Perhaps, instead of nerfing everything all the time, they should just give an armor increase to people that stand still and zoom in.

I mean, those aren't 'new players'....PGI has decreed that after your first 25 matches, you're now considered a 'veteran,' regardless of whether you learned anything or not.

#12 mogs01gt

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Posted 11 August 2014 - 08:08 AM

View PostWillard Phule, on 11 August 2014 - 08:06 AM, said:

Perhaps, instead of nerfing everything all the time, they should just give an armor increase to people that stand still and zoom in.I mean, those aren't 'new players'....PGI has decreed that after your first 25 matches, you're now considered a 'veteran,' regardless of whether you learned anything or not.

You mean to tell me this game isnt all about sniping???

#13 Viges

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Posted 11 August 2014 - 08:15 AM

View Postmogs01gt, on 11 August 2014 - 06:14 AM, said:

We need more LRMs are fine posts rather than nerf LRM posts.

We have so much more bigger problems right now...

#14 Belorion

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Posted 11 August 2014 - 08:20 AM

I am not sure I understand the point of this thread. LRMs are still pretty under powered unless you have a couple coordinated boats with tag/narc/artimis.

#15 Bishop Steiner

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Posted 11 August 2014 - 08:22 AM

View Postl33tworks, on 11 August 2014 - 05:27 AM, said:

Groundbreaking stuff. Unique. Inspirational.

judging by the forum QQ, I think it safe to say it indeed IS groundbreaking thinking for 90% of them.

View Postmogs01gt, on 11 August 2014 - 06:35 AM, said:

Placing the blame on equipment when it's a map issue is not how weapons are balanced.

and even on that map, there are places to shelter, some more effective than others. But if you get caught out in the open in a Fatty, crap happens. It's kind of the same scenario as the light that rounds the corner into a MetaWhale. Some days, sometimes, crap happens. If it happens to you regularly.... then you might wanna look at YOU, ya know?

#16 AlmightyAeng

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Posted 11 August 2014 - 08:29 AM

View PostAim64C, on 11 August 2014 - 06:33 AM, said:




I was surprised you managed to pull nearly 500 dmg in a close-range brawling build with serious heat issues in a game with some major range-engagements. Down to 13% before you went down...nice :) So much internal heat damage though! lol

Edited by Ghost Badger, 11 August 2014 - 08:29 AM.


#17 Trauglodyte

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Posted 11 August 2014 - 09:19 AM

So, LRMs are broken and OP because people are new, impatient, play poorly, and semi-bad map design. Sounds to me like they're working properly to cull the heard.

#18 mogs01gt

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Posted 11 August 2014 - 09:35 AM

View PostBishop Steiner, on 11 August 2014 - 08:22 AM, said:

and even on that map, there are places to shelter, some more effective than others. But if you get caught out in the open in a Fatty, crap happens. It's kind of the same scenario as the light that rounds the corner into a MetaWhale. Some days, sometimes, crap happens. If it happens to you regularly.... then you might wanna look at YOU, ya know?

Coming around a corner and seeing a MetaWhale means you are FUBAR'd in almost any mech!!

Edited by mogs01gt, 11 August 2014 - 09:35 AM.


#19 Trauglodyte

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Posted 11 August 2014 - 09:37 AM

True enough, mogs. The point, though, is that there shouldn't ever be a situation where you turn a corner uninformed of what is there. If your Lights are doing their jobs, that doesn't happen.

#20 nehebkau

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Posted 11 August 2014 - 10:50 AM

View Postmogs01gt, on 11 August 2014 - 04:46 AM, said:

So I've been trying to master my Griffins and purchased the 1n. Im running it with 3 chained LRM10s and 3 MLs. I rarely blind fire because in a medium mech, I dont have the ammo to simply waste a few salvos, I must maint locks in order for the mech to do damage. I only have a few matches in the mech but I can sort of understand some player's complaints towards LRMs. Im running with a 5.0 kdr in her but it's not because LRMs are OP...

Every match where I was getting 2 or 3 kills are from three simple facts:
1. Other team didnt have any ECM mechs. And if they did, the ECM mechs were too busy sniping and not helping cloak their team from LRMs. Lack of proper ECM cloak!
2. Leaving cover to go after a kill. I killed two TBR's trying to kill my Warhawk. I positioned properly at their rear or side and unleshed LRMs on them. Simple fix to a simple issue, there is never such thing as an easy kill in this game and cover is your friend.
3. Some maps simply have lack of cover but there is another side to this. I peaked around a corner and got my left arm shot off by an alpha...cover works for all weapons


The game's I lost were mainly due to my teammates going Leeroy Jenkins and dying in the first few minutes or my opponents using superior tactics. Last game I played we got flanked badly and got *****!!! Flank them LRM mechs and enjoy the smell of burnt metal!

Mogs


Mogs,
As an ECM light pilot let me tell you a few things. First, I would like to be able to help out my team by sticking with the group providing ECM cover and supporting our efforts. Let me tell you the problems with doing that:
  • My rewards, both for EXP and Cbills will CRAPPY! Breaking off from the group, flanking and sniping will net me between $200-$300K at least 1 kill and between 1500 and 2000 exp. If I stick with the group I am lucky if I get half that.
  • If I go off by myself I WILL last to the end of the game, most of the time. I will score between 300 and 700 damage (on average). If I stick with the group I WILL loose armor and body parts to friendly fire I will be taken out of the game quickly as a result. I will be lucky to do 150 damage.
  • If I do provide scouting information, most people don't read it because they are target-fixated on what is in front of them and the "Bill you are being flanked!" message gets ignored.
There is no incentive for me, as a solo light pilot, to stick with the group and tons of drawbacks.

Edited by nehebkau, 11 August 2014 - 10:53 AM.






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