13 replies to this topic

[Sandslice]

Just looking for a sanity check here.

Currently, I run my Griffin 1N (yes, I know I already fail a sanity check by running the 1N instead of the 3M) with this:

300 XL, ERPPC, 2 ML, 3 LRM-5, extra armour, decent ammo, and what never feels like enough heat sinks to fire the ERPPC several times.

This got me thinking - would a speed-focused Griffin work?

Speed Griffin

350 XL, ERPPC, 2 ML, 2 LRM-5, stock armour, stock ammo, and the same lack of heat sinks... but the thing would run 113.4 speed-tweaked (350 x 1.1 = 385, which is exactly 7x for a Griffin.)

Thoughts?

Edited by Sandslice, 11 August 2014 - 08:21 AM.

[waterfowl]

what would you be doing with the speed? Poking with a PPC? If that's the case you might as well slap it on a light with ECM. I dunno, it could be good, but I don't see why it needs speed if it's sniping

[Sandslice]

waterfowl, on 11 August 2014 - 11:04 AM, said:

what would you be doing with the speed? Poking with a PPC? If that's the case you might as well slap it on a light with ECM. I dunno, it could be good, but I don't see why it needs speed if it's sniping

As a personal conceit, I still don't use Ravens. But yes, if I only wanted a quick self-propelled sniper rifle, I could indeed put together a light (even an ECM light or Cicada) for it.

Nah, its usage doctrine (for me at least) would still be that of my current Griffin: mid-range lance support / skirmishing, just with slightly faster redeployment and squirrelling options. The LRMs are partially a scout / scout-support tool (in that any AMS near a target will betray its carrier's position) and partially used to annoy or add damage, sorta like AC/5s for the AC-impaired.

Also, the extra speed helps with disengaging from TBR and Nova, and marginally allows disengagement from SCR and Clan lights - and better support for light 'Mechs. Finally, being a medium, it can't avoid damage QUITE as well as a light or Cicada, but certainly can endure the gradual damage longer and potentially eat the Pinpoint better.

In the end, it may just be more of a thought experiment than anything else. ^^

Edited by Sandslice, 11 August 2014 - 12:08 PM.

[eFTy]

If you're going to run a speed freak griffin, load up on SRMs instead of LRMs. Run in, blast, and run away. Combine with lots of jump jets for good maneuverability. Unfortunately though, I don't think the massive heat of a PPC works with such a mode of play, so you're better off downgrading to a ER LL or even going for 3x ML and basically playing a crazy jumping version of the Hunchback 4SP.

I'm not sure that's a very good idea though. At the very least it's not something I've yet been able to achieve successfully. Griffin's too damn big and fragile to brawl. The Hunchy's better for that.

If you want to use LRMs on a Griffin, the 1N is actually the best IMO - it can carry 3x LRM10, along with tag, 2x ML, plenty of ammo, AMS and then all you can fit is a 275XL, which is generally adequate (just don't get too isolated or lights will tear you up).

[SethAbercromby]

eFTy, on 11 August 2014 - 12:09 PM, said:

If you want to use LRMs on a Griffin, the 1N is actually the best IMO - it can carry 3x LRM10, along with tag, 2x ML, plenty of ammo, AMS and then all you can fit is a 275XL, which is generally adequate (just don't get too isolated or lights will tear you up).

If it's LRMs you want, I've got an 4xLRM10 Griffin 3M as troll configuration in my garage. It's only weak spot is that it carries much less ammo than I want it to.

[1453 R]

Ahhh, ye olde “You only need to go as fast as you need to in order to get where you need to be” train of thought. Yeah, by slicing the engine in everything smaller than a Fatlas down to a 250STD ye can maximize gunnage and (theoretically) armor/survivability…but the point of being able to disengage from TBRs is quite pertinent, as is the rapid-response idea.

You’ll find, Slice, that most folks in this forum don’t really believe anything bigger than a Cicada should attain speeds higher than 75-odd KPH, because anything faster than that is sacrificing too much Other useful Stuff. The SCR should be distinct proof that the opposite approach is not only viable but can in fact be pretty lethal, but it never seems to be such.

That said…I’ve run 350XL Shadow Hawks before, and you generally have to be pretty careful with what you do with them. My primary example is a superfat Pack Hunter SHD-2K, with dual ER-PPC stacked on a 350XL and jump jets. It’s absolute pants in close quarters with the heat efficiency of an industrial oven…but there’s something to be said for being able to escape reprisal, and for being able to find new firing positions faster and thusly keep your guns in play more often.

It tends to boil down to whether or not you’re more comfortable with the extra speed and the positional advantages that gives you, or whether you feel like the endurance of a STD engine or the extra armor/firepower/heat sinkage of a slow XL is more beneficial. In this case, if you have one available, I’d suggest mebbe trying the 330XL as a middle ground and see how that treats you. It works like gangbusters for the Stormcrow, after all.

[mogs01gt]

Sandslice, on 11 August 2014 - 07:54 AM, said:

Just looking for a sanity check here.
Currently, I run my Griffin 1N (yes, I know I already fail a sanity check by running the 1N instead of the 3M) with this:
300 XL, ERPPC, 2 ML, 3 LRM-5, extra armour, decent ammo, and what never feels like enough heat sinks to fire the ERPPC several times.
This got me thinking - would a speed-focused Griffin work?
Speed Griffin
350 XL, ERPPC, 2 ML, 2 LRM-5, stock armour, stock ammo, and the same lack of heat sinks... but the thing would run 113.4 speed-tweaked (350 x 1.1 = 385, which is exactly 7x for a Griffin.)
Thoughts?

My thought is....what is the point of this mech? It's really fast but cant do any damage other than staying in the 700-900 range.

I'd run it like this but there isnt enough lights in the game currently to justify using streaks. Last year yes, not now. IMO JJ's are a bit useless unless you are poptarting or facing a lot of lights.
GRF-1N

I say keep the engine between 275 and 300 and stuff as much dmg as you can in them.

Edited by mogs01gt, 11 August 2014 - 12:26 PM.

[1453 R]

The point is that it's a fire-support/harasser 'Mech that's hard for anyone who thinks ya never need anything bigger than a 300XL to chase down

Believe it or not, speed can be a meritorious advantage in its own right and isn't just a thing people use to try and be bad XL brawlers. An observant pilot can use a quick machine like this to see trouble coming and get out of its way, and there's nothing trouble can really do to stop it. Yeah, if a brawling TBR catches him out inside 150 meters, that extra fifteen clicks he gains over the bog-standard 280XL designs doesn't do him any good...but what that fifteen clicks does do is allow him to reposition faster than the TBR can catch up, if he sees the thing charging his way.

[Barkem Squirrel]

look at using two ERLL with the 300 xl on the 1n and you can have 4 extra DHS, 3 LRM 5 with 4 tons of ammo, BAP, and AMS. I run the Shadow hawk 5M in a similar manner.


That is still moving at 97 kph with speed tweak.

Edited by Barkem Squirrel, 11 August 2014 - 12:46 PM.

[eFTy]

I also drive Ravens and Locusts, I know the value of speed. But after a poitn you start sacrificing too much firepower to be really worth it. You end up with a 55 ton mech that can do no more than a 35 tonner except carry some extra armour while being a much bigger target.

More guns also helps you survive, if you apply them well enough. Sometimes, instead of running, it's better to just kill your enemy. You only need to pass 100kph if you want to hunt lights.

[HlynkaCG]

I run a very similar concept in my wolverine's

Sandslice, on 11 August 2014 - 07:54 AM, said:

Just looking for a sanity check here.

Currently, I run my Griffin 1N (yes, I know I already fail a sanity check by running the 1N instead of the 3M) with this:

300 XL, ERPPC, 2 ML, 3 LRM-5, extra armour, decent ammo, and what never feels like enough heat sinks to fire the ERPPC several times.

This got me thinking - would a speed-focused Griffin work?

Speed Griffin

350 XL, ERPPC, 2 ML, 2 LRM-5, stock armour, stock ammo, and the same lack of heat sinks... but the thing would run 113.4 speed-tweaked (350 x 1.1 = 385, which is exactly 7x for a Griffin.)

Thoughts?

Yes it can work, but it requires good map and situational awareness. I run a very similar concept with my Wolverine 6 and 7Ks using a 330 xl engine and Large Pulse laser in place of your PPC.

For instance, this build is almost a direct port of my WVR-7K.

[RiotHero]

My Griff 1S is my only medium mech with LRM's. I have it as mid range support and it does very well for that.
I have an LRM 20 with arty, 2xERLL, and TAG. It actually works quite well if you stay on the fringe and use everything at distance. Only shoot the lrms when you can use LOS. You will be shooting your ER'S anyway so it doesn't matter.

I have a SHD-2D with an XL350. It uses 3xmpl,3xssrm, and bap, It's a lot more fun since the mpl buff. With a
1.42 heat rating it's not bad. You can kill any light that gets to close by mistake before they have enough time to get pull
out of range of your weapons. With your speed and jump jets they might be faster but, not fast enough.

As far as cents they play different and I find them way more durable that a Shad or Griff. They are harder to hit and just all around take more of a beating. The goal is to never stop moving with them, circle around and use your huge shield arm. You can move so much better than a shad and see much more. You can even hit ppl when you are running away. My CN9-D has almost a .50 higher k/d then my best shad so if you like that play style it's great.

[JC Daxion]

if the ER PPC is running to hot.. perhaps try just a normal PPC? they are 5 less heat.. I tried ERPPC's on my jester and it was insane how hot it got. Can't hurt to try..

Though if ya have the XL350 already, why not?

[Sewman]

Griffin 1N addict chiming in here. I don't think you're insane for running the 1N over the 3M.

After the SRM buffs not too long ago I changed around my SHD's for SRM builds and had a hoot. You tend to die more with close range brawler builds but you really get to stuff pies in Atlai faces before going down.

So I went out seeking the best SRM brawler in the game. All research pointed to the Griffin (SHD's are good too, just not as much torso twist range). Sure, I think that the Griffin's make good LRM boats but I think that if you own a Griffin, their strong points seem to be SRM builds.

In a separate thread, I wrote about how much the 1N sucked because you always get the right arm blown off. But after mastering and some extensive testing (1N vs 3M vs SHD-2K or 2D2), I've completely reversed my opinion. I found that the 1N's arm mounted lasers allow you to leg lights and aim at Red components with much more ease. If you've got highground, you can aim down below at enemies which is harder with torso mounted lasers. In my mind, there's no question that the 1N is the deadliest, with the right play style - even on large maps if you're patient enough. The 3M and the SHD-2K are both more survivable if you set them up to sacrifice both arms but the 1N is more deadly. (I play 3 X ASRM6, 3 MLAS, 300XL)

The switch in play style:
-play it more like a light than a medium
-wait a while before engaging, primary targets are distracted assaults and barn like targets like Cataphracts and Thunderbolts
-avoid chasing lights, focus on pop-tarting (yes pop-tarting with SRMs from behind a hill/obstacle is good fun) and running strikes from cover to cover if you don't have too many jj's.
-on large maps, focus on avoiding any LRM and PPC damage until the brawl starts. You're job will be a finisher, much like a light: hunt red components and backs of assaults. You need fresh armour to go in, do your pie throwing and survive until your next strafing run.
-try to sacrifice your left arm before you die (a sign of good torso twisting that will earn the respect of any good Centurion pilot)