You can't make diamond-studded steel fiber armor because diamonds dissolve in heated metallic iron. That's how you make steel - you dissolve carbon in iron.
Try wurtzite-oriented Boron Nitride instead. It's harder than diamond, been known since the mid 1970's, and won't dissolve in hot iron.
Too bad we can't RetCon this...
1
You do know that carbon dissolves in steel, right?
Started by Felicitatem Parco, Nov 19 2011 01:02 PM
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7 replies to this topic
#1
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Posted 19 November 2011 - 01:02 PM
#2
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Posted 19 November 2011 - 01:22 PM
Battletech handles that. Something to do with 0g manufacturing to keep the diamond fibers from being dissolved.
Edited by Vizth, 19 November 2011 - 01:23 PM.
#3
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Posted 20 November 2011 - 03:16 PM
Prosperity Park, on 19 November 2011 - 01:02 PM, said:
You can't make diamond-studded steel fiber armor because diamonds dissolve in heated metallic iron. That's how you make steel - you dissolve carbon in iron.
Try wurtzite-oriented Boron Nitride instead. It's harder than diamond, been known since the mid 1970's, and won't dissolve in hot iron.
Too bad we can't RetCon this...
Try wurtzite-oriented Boron Nitride instead. It's harder than diamond, been known since the mid 1970's, and won't dissolve in hot iron.
Too bad we can't RetCon this...
They actually mention this fact in Tech manual
From tech manual
Quote
ARMOR
Armor is the last of the “dumb” components in a BattleMech
before I get to the juicy stuff .
The Layers
Standard BattleMech armor consists of multiple layers.
Only two of these layers are armor in the truest sense. The
other two layers play supporting roles.
The outer layer of armor is an extremely strong, extremely
hard iron alloy…a steel. It is intended to fragment projectiles
and/or—hey, have you heard anyone use “and/or” aloud
before?—to fragment projectiles and/or ablate protectively
in the face of energy attacks. The grains of this steel, that is,
its crystals, are carefully aligned for maximum strength and
radiation-treated to further hardness and strength. Though
phenomenally strong and hard, the steel pays for these properties
by being quite brittle. In fact, the steel is brittle enough
that the second layer of armor that backs the steel is a ceramic,
cubic boron nitride.
The point of the boron nitride layer is to act as a catcher’s
mitt for the fragments and plasma of the steel. Another very
strong, very hard material with a brittleness problem, boron
nitride is carefully processed to avoid any porosity and incorporates
an additional web of artificial diamond fibers to make
the ceramic a fine backstop for the steel outer layer....
New Armors
The new wonder armors of the thirty-first century…and the
old Star League, I guess…and the Clans…um, let me find the
little animation clip here…
Ferro-fibrous Armor: One of the oldest-newest armor types
is ferro-fibrous, which differs little from standard armor except to
add a weave of diamond fibers to the steel layer itself. This is actually
quite an accomplishment since molten iron and carbon get
along real well, if you know what I mean.
…Or if you don’t, I mean iron reacts with carbon, so the diamond
would dissolve unless you’re clever. The fiber protection techniques
involved result in bulkier—yet lighter—armor.
Armor is the last of the “dumb” components in a BattleMech
before I get to the juicy stuff .
The Layers
Standard BattleMech armor consists of multiple layers.
Only two of these layers are armor in the truest sense. The
other two layers play supporting roles.
The outer layer of armor is an extremely strong, extremely
hard iron alloy…a steel. It is intended to fragment projectiles
and/or—hey, have you heard anyone use “and/or” aloud
before?—to fragment projectiles and/or ablate protectively
in the face of energy attacks. The grains of this steel, that is,
its crystals, are carefully aligned for maximum strength and
radiation-treated to further hardness and strength. Though
phenomenally strong and hard, the steel pays for these properties
by being quite brittle. In fact, the steel is brittle enough
that the second layer of armor that backs the steel is a ceramic,
cubic boron nitride.
The point of the boron nitride layer is to act as a catcher’s
mitt for the fragments and plasma of the steel. Another very
strong, very hard material with a brittleness problem, boron
nitride is carefully processed to avoid any porosity and incorporates
an additional web of artificial diamond fibers to make
the ceramic a fine backstop for the steel outer layer....
New Armors
The new wonder armors of the thirty-first century…and the
old Star League, I guess…and the Clans…um, let me find the
little animation clip here…
Ferro-fibrous Armor: One of the oldest-newest armor types
is ferro-fibrous, which differs little from standard armor except to
add a weave of diamond fibers to the steel layer itself. This is actually
quite an accomplishment since molten iron and carbon get
along real well, if you know what I mean.
…Or if you don’t, I mean iron reacts with carbon, so the diamond
would dissolve unless you’re clever. The fiber protection techniques
involved result in bulkier—yet lighter—armor.
Note the Guy who wrote this is Cray, know what his day job is? Materials engineer.
Basically B-tech armor is made from a steel layer and a layer of cubic boron nitride thats reinforced with Diamond fibers, ferro-fibrous armors adds diamond fibers to the steel layer as well.
Edit:
Endo steel requires Zero G manufacturing Armor dose not.
Also from tech manual this is a mechs internals
Quote
Anyway, the major components—the major “bones” of the
standard internal structure—are composite structures with a
core of ultra-light foamed aluminum, shrouded in carefully oriented
wraps of silicon carbide fibers. This assembly is then clad
with titanium-alloyed steel. The fiber layer also has assorted
structural sensors and data lines woven into it, while the exterior
is rigged to mount assorted equipment. Struts extend outward
from the bones to support the armor shell without interfering
with the myomer rigging. Weapons frame attachments are custom-
designed for each ’Mech.
Endo-Steel
Endo-steel internal structures are basically the same as standard
structures in layout, but differ in materials. Endo-steel structures utilize
endomorphic steel (hence their name). This endo-steel is much
stronger than the steel of standard BattleMech frames, which allows
their structural walls to be thinner and lighter for the same strength.
The thinner walls would make the bones less stiff for the same diameter
of bone, so endo-steel bones have to be noticeably larger.
Yes? I can hear you— …No. Stiffness and strength aren’t the
same qualities. A thick cardboard panel is stiffer, less prone to
buckling, than a thin sheet of metal even though the metal is
much stronger. Endo-steel is stronger, but because it is thinner,
it runs into buckling problems unless you make the bones wider.
That’s how cardboard turns thin sheets of paper into a stiff structure:
it makes the structure thicker with the corrugated paper between
two outer sheets. Endo-steel uses a larger foam core inside
the thinner shell.
Now, because of its composition, endo-steel is produced in
zero-G to avoid chemical segregation. Er, that is, some of the alloying
agents want to separate like oil and water and thus make
the steel brittle and weak, but they’ll stay mixed in zero-G until
solidification. Structural designers also make endo-steel’s foam
core in zero-G, where foams form a more regular pore size and
thus have superior strength. Zero-G processing makes endosteel
expensive, but the elimination of the fiber layer allows it to
be produced faster than standard structures.
standard internal structure—are composite structures with a
core of ultra-light foamed aluminum, shrouded in carefully oriented
wraps of silicon carbide fibers. This assembly is then clad
with titanium-alloyed steel. The fiber layer also has assorted
structural sensors and data lines woven into it, while the exterior
is rigged to mount assorted equipment. Struts extend outward
from the bones to support the armor shell without interfering
with the myomer rigging. Weapons frame attachments are custom-
designed for each ’Mech.
Endo-Steel
Endo-steel internal structures are basically the same as standard
structures in layout, but differ in materials. Endo-steel structures utilize
endomorphic steel (hence their name). This endo-steel is much
stronger than the steel of standard BattleMech frames, which allows
their structural walls to be thinner and lighter for the same strength.
The thinner walls would make the bones less stiff for the same diameter
of bone, so endo-steel bones have to be noticeably larger.
Yes? I can hear you— …No. Stiffness and strength aren’t the
same qualities. A thick cardboard panel is stiffer, less prone to
buckling, than a thin sheet of metal even though the metal is
much stronger. Endo-steel is stronger, but because it is thinner,
it runs into buckling problems unless you make the bones wider.
That’s how cardboard turns thin sheets of paper into a stiff structure:
it makes the structure thicker with the corrugated paper between
two outer sheets. Endo-steel uses a larger foam core inside
the thinner shell.
Now, because of its composition, endo-steel is produced in
zero-G to avoid chemical segregation. Er, that is, some of the alloying
agents want to separate like oil and water and thus make
the steel brittle and weak, but they’ll stay mixed in zero-G until
solidification. Structural designers also make endo-steel’s foam
core in zero-G, where foams form a more regular pore size and
thus have superior strength. Zero-G processing makes endosteel
expensive, but the elimination of the fiber layer allows it to
be produced faster than standard structures.
Edited by Nebfer, 20 November 2011 - 03:21 PM.
#4
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Professor of Memetics
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Posted 22 November 2011 - 05:26 PM
Yeah... the magical 31st century method for weaving diamonds into steel... that"s where you'd use the boron nitride instead of carbon diamonds. I wasn't talking about the laminar stuff. It sounds like whoever came up with the idea of "diamond steel" wasn't a Materials Engineer.
#6
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Posted 22 November 2011 - 05:53 PM
agreed, people remember a lot of lore from a game that has been dead for 11 years
#7
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Posted 22 November 2011 - 08:11 PM
Dead?
Dead....
Dead....
#8
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Posted 26 November 2011 - 10:51 AM
Prosperity Park, on 22 November 2011 - 05:26 PM, said:
Yeah... the magical 31st century method for weaving diamonds into steel... that"s where you'd use the boron nitride instead of carbon diamonds. I wasn't talking about the laminar stuff. It sounds like whoever came up with the idea of "diamond steel" wasn't a Materials Engineer.
Well the guy who came up with it all thoughs years ago (I recall seeing similar descriptions in the early books) probably was not, but the guy who wrote what I posted IS one, so if he did not fell like retconing it out (or likely could not), then I think you should not get worked up over it, after all they theoretically have 400+ years of Materials science over us. Heck they have "magic" fusion, just look at the efficiency's of their fusion drives... Also their capital armor is millimeters thick and can stop kilotons of Ke (even vehicle armor is quite good, it's at best an inch thick and yet can stop the Kinetic equivalents of battleship shells).
Then theirs the minor fact that most Sci-*** tend to invent a number of "magical" metals anyway... (well you can not really explain B-techs armor performance using today's materials anyway).
Catapult, on 22 November 2011 - 05:53 PM, said:
agreed, people remember a lot of lore from a game that has been dead for 11 years
Dead? Hate to brake it to you battletech is not dead.
Unless your one of thoughs who despise the current time line (even though FASA was heading their in the first place)...
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