16 replies to this topic

[Dimento Graven]

Instead of some of our more convoluted 'balance' mechanisms, like ghost heat and gauss charge delays, why not the following:

Weapon charge vs. Weapon Fire limitation

Basically, charging multiples of certain weapons of specific types at the same time, shuts down the ability to fire any weapon of that type.

You have energy weapons which includes all lasers and PPC's.

If a person has two PPC's charging simultaneously, no other energy weapons can fire until charged.

If a person has 2 Large lasers, either ER or pulse, no other energy weapons can fire until charged.

If a person has 4 ML's (pulse or otherwise) charging simultaneously, no other energy weapons can fire until charged.

If a person has 6 SM's (pulse or otherwise) charging simultaneously, no other energy weapons can fire until charged.

And for gauss, keep the charge mechanic, BUT, 'enhance' it such that while two gauss are charging, no energy weapons can fire.

With a LOT more work you could even slow down the reload time of ballistics and missiles while multiple energy weapons are charging.

Just a thought... I "think" this would be a lot less problematic than some of the other silliness we've seen, AND, it makes a bit more sense as the power drain of charging multiple high power energy weapons simultaneously pulls power from other systems and what not, BUT... I just thought I'd toss this out there and see what the general take of the idea was...

[Rizzelbizzeg]

Add a charge up like gauss has for everything? I don't get it...

[-Natural Selection-]

Firing limitations ("mech quirks") was one of the ideas in regard to some players issue with ppc/gauss and cerll boats.

But we got nerfs instead.

[Dimento Graven]

Well I can see how it might look like it at first glance, however, to avoid the delay in firing of other weapons, make sure only ONE PPC, or ONE LL, or THREE ML's, or FIVE SL's, or ONE gauss is charging at a time, under those circumstances, firing of other weapons function normally...

[Deathlike]

It gets quite complicated if you put it the way you're putting it... because there are plenty of combinations that exist that avoid them or aren't even the problem in the first place.

In essence, you are essentially vouching for a form of Homeless Bill's post about this type of thing.

[Dimento Graven]

Well, I'm not familiar with Homeless Bill's post, however, yes, there are plenty of combinations that would exist that would avoid this scenario, but that's kind of the point. Players would have to begin playing with non-optimal alpha builds, OR, play with the optimal alpha builds, BUT, suffer through additional consequences of doing so.

As it is now, we've got PGI attempting nonsensical stuff with C-ER LL's, and also maintaining, even exacerbating the ghost heat issue, all of which are an attempt to moderate the affect of the pin point alpha.

PGI has stated that due to engine and server constraints it's not possible to de-converge the weapons, and their attempts at addressing it have only skirted the issue, I'm suggesting something that provides a bit of leeway.

At least I thought I was...

[Ph30nix]

just about every thing you could possibly imagine has been suggested at this point.

They have also been picked over by the entire community and some of the ones with merit have even been taken so far as to spread sheet theory crafting. Sadly PGI doesn't care for our input they have their path and they fully intend to follow it if an iceberg shows up they will just slam right into it and hopefully stay afloat to continue on.

There is also the rumor/belief that PGI just doesnlt have the skill/ability to program some of the suggestions due to worker/software limitations.

[Col Jaime Wolf]

i would be in favor of a kind of "total energy limitation" so lets say your mech has only so much "energy" to use from its engine (just example plx dont bash my crappy numbers). note im not talking about charge "time" but a limit to how much firepower you can alpha without stressing your reactor.

a mech would have lets say 50 total energy "points" to fire weapons.

a gauss might take 25 energy so you can only charge and fire 2 gauss and nothing else.

a ml might be 5 energy so you can charge and fire 10 of them at a time

a ERLL/PPC might be 10 points.

but you get the point. simply make it so even if you have every weapon and the kitchen sink you have to choose some of your total firepower to shoot rather then simply letting it all loose.

Edited by Mellifluer, 13 August 2014 - 02:26 PM.

[Ph30nix]

Mellifluer, on 13 August 2014 - 02:25 PM, said:

i would be in favor of a kind of "total energy limitation" so lets say your mech has only so much "energy" to use from its engine (just example plx dont bash my crappy numbers). note im not talking about charge "time" but a limit to how much firepower you can alpha without stressing your reactor.

a mech would have lets say 50 total energy "points" to fire weapons.

a gauss might take 25 energy so you can only charge and fire 2 gauss and nothing else.

a ml might be 5 energy so you can charge and fire 10 of them at a time

a ERLL/PPC might be 10 points.

but you get the point. simply make it so even if you have every weapon and the kitchen sink you have to choose some of your total firepower to shoot rather then simply letting it all loose.

thing is we already have that system.... its called heat.
It just wasn't designed very well.

[Asmudius Heng]

Ph30nix, on 13 August 2014 - 02:41 PM, said:

thing is we already have that system.... its called heat.
It just wasn't designed very well.

Pretty much.

What PGI seem to want is heat as a DPS limiter not an alpha limiter which it could be with a static cap ... just would not effect gauss builds and some AC builds.

If they want to keep the current heat system they need some sort of energy limiter idea like homeless bills to curb high power alphas basically

[Pjwned]

It's been suggested and it's even worse than ghost heat.

[Ph30nix]

Asmudius Heng, on 13 August 2014 - 05:11 PM, said:

Pretty much.

What PGI seem to want is heat as a DPS limiter not an alpha limiter which it could be with a static cap ... just would not effect gauss builds and some AC builds.

If they want to keep the current heat system they need some sort of energy limiter idea like homeless bills to curb high power alphas basically

yea but the work that would be needed to tact on a new limiting system like that it would just be easier to FIX the heat system
not to mention the extra confusion to new players.

[Asmudius Heng]

Ph30nix, on 13 August 2014 - 05:37 PM, said:

yea but the work that would be needed to tact on a new limiting system like that it would just be easier to FIX the heat system
not to mention the extra confusion to new players.

I do not disagree believe me ... PGI seems to prefer to hang on to old broken system and add new things than backtrack though so ...

[Roland]

This plan sounds so overly complex and terrible, that Paul probably already has it coded.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Are you talking "Weapon Recycle" which is the essentially "Reload" mechanic for weapons... or are you talking like gauss charge?

[Khobai]

Theres nothing wrong with alpha striking and no need to limit it whatsoever.

No one thinks an Atlas D-DC blasting you in the face with a 70 damage alpha is overpowered. Why? Because its not pinpoint damage. The SRM and laser damage spreads out all over the place. Alpha striking with spread weapons has never been a problem.

The problem has always been pinpoint damage alphas. Its the weapon combinations that do 30-40 damage to one location that cause 90% of the weapon balance issues. Namely AC20, PPC, and Gauss. Fix those three weapons and pinpoint damage will no longer be problematic.

Edited by Khobai, 13 August 2014 - 06:04 PM.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Khobai, on 13 August 2014 - 06:01 PM, said:

Theres nothing wrong with alpha striking and no need to limit it whatsoever.

No one thinks an Atlas D-DC blasting you in the face with a 70 damage alpha is overpowered. Why? Because its not pinpoint damage. The SRM and laser damage spreads out all over the place. Alpha striking with spread weapons has never been a problem.

The problem has always been pinpoint damage alphas. Its the weapon combinations that do 30-40 damage to one location that cause 90% of the weapon balance issues. Namely AC20, PPC, and Gauss. Fix those three weapons and pinpoint damage will no longer be problematic.

All Pinpoint damage weapons should be changed... the only weapon that should really be pinpoint at all is Gauss... All AC's should function as clan AC's or similar... Clan AC5 does 5 damage of 4 shots? Let the IS version do it over 3. ect.