56 replies to this topic

[Davegt27]

Lily from animove, on 12 August 2014 - 11:11 AM, said:

balance maybe? there is still highly visible imbalance, and in my opinion someone should nerf that AC15 with its ridiculous imbalnced stats amongst the ballistic weapons. All the recent nerfs were also because of it, but no one seriously tocuhed that weapon. All other weapons around it were nerfed.

AC15? whats that and how do I get one

[Lily from animove]

Davegt27, on 12 August 2014 - 11:13 AM, said:

AC15? whats that and how do I get one

yeah what may that be. how many ballistic weapons do we have huh?

Edited by Lily from animove, 12 August 2014 - 11:15 AM.

[Livewyr]

Agent of Change, on 12 August 2014 - 08:21 AM, said:

Petition to stop people who don't seem to grasp game balance as a complete concept from creating over simplified straw man threads complaining about other people they perceive are complaining while completely missing the irony involved in that endeavor.

Petition against Agent of Change!

OP poster is OP.

[Apnu]

Lefty Lucy, on 12 August 2014 - 11:13 AM, said:

I didn't imply that it's something that people *should* have a problem with, merely that the heat systems are very different, so a TT-style heat scale isn't necessarily appropriate for MWO.

Agreed. But I think MWO could use more on the heat scale and the TT rules would be a good source of inspiration. Messing with the HUD, targeting and speed of a mech as you go up the scale would work I think.

Even if someone fired 4 PPCs and shutdown, they'd still have issues upon mech startup to deal with. That would go further to discourage boating and encourage balanced builds.

[Agent of Change]

Apnu, on 12 August 2014 - 12:02 PM, said:

Agreed. But I think MWO could use more on the heat scale and the TT rules would be a good source of inspiration. Messing with the HUD, targeting and speed of a mech as you go up the scale would work I think.

Even if someone fired 4 PPCs and shutdown, they'd still have issues upon mech startup to deal with. That would go further to discourage boating and encourage balanced builds.

key to this is that the penalties would apply as the mech cooled. Under my example on the first page if a mech that couldn't easily handle it fired an alpha like 4 ppcs and when over the heat scale they would shut down and take internal damage per normal BUT once they powered up their mech would be sluggish and their hud would be jacked up until they cooled past the hud threshold but they would remain sluggish until they cooled past the speed threshold.

There wouldn't be this binary I'm fine, i'm shutdown, I'm fine again. The consequence for stupid hot builds shutting down alot would be dealing with these issues even AFTER shutting down. you get hit with them on the way up and down because that's the only way to encourage reasonable heat management. And you aren't disenfranchising the player in the process, they can still run hot and for the most skilled they could handle the consequences of running hot most of the time, but you are enforcing consequences for hot builds.

[3rdworld]

Agent of Change, on 12 August 2014 - 12:14 PM, said:

key to this is that the penalties would apply as the mech cooled. Under my example on the first page if a mech that couldn't easily handle it fired an alpha like 4 ppcs and when over the heat scale they would shut down and take internal damage per normal BUT once they powered up their mech would be sluggish and their hud would be jacked up until they cooled past the hud threshold but they would remain sluggish until they cooled past the speed threshold.

There wouldn't be this binary I'm fine, i'm shutdown, I'm fine again. The consequence for stupid hot builds shutting down alot would be dealing with these issues even AFTER shutting down. you get hit with them on the way up and down because that's the only way to encourage reasonable heat management. And you aren't disenfranchising the player in the process, they can still run hot and for the most skilled they could handle the consequences of running hot most of the time, but you are enforcing consequences for hot builds.

Lets make energy builds even worse than they already are compared to ballistics!

[Apnu]

Agent of Change, on 12 August 2014 - 12:14 PM, said:

key to this is that the penalties would apply as the mech cooled. Under my example on the first page if a mech that couldn't easily handle it fired an alpha like 4 ppcs and when over the heat scale they would shut down and take internal damage per normal BUT once they powered up their mech would be sluggish and their hud would be jacked up until they cooled past the hud threshold but they would remain sluggish until they cooled past the speed threshold.

There wouldn't be this binary I'm fine, i'm shutdown, I'm fine again. The consequence for stupid hot builds shutting down alot would be dealing with these issues even AFTER shutting down. you get hit with them on the way up and down because that's the only way to encourage reasonable heat management. And you aren't disenfranchising the player in the process, they can still run hot and for the most skilled they could handle the consequences of running hot most of the time, but you are enforcing consequences for hot builds.

Of course. As one goes down the heat scale into the green zone the mech's systems should be more responsive, HUD more clear, targeting better until its back to normal.

[Kjudoon]

Apnu, on 12 August 2014 - 12:02 PM, said:

Agreed. But I think MWO could use more on the heat scale and the TT rules would be a good source of inspiration. Messing with the HUD, targeting and speed of a mech as you go up the scale would work I think.

Even if someone fired 4 PPCs and shutdown, they'd still have issues upon mech startup to deal with. That would go further to discourage boating and encourage balanced builds.

That already exists for LRMs. Trust me. My BLR 1S is a hot sucker, and I'm still eliteing it out.

[Agent of Change]

3rdworld, on 12 August 2014 - 12:20 PM, said:

Lets make energy builds even worse than they already are compared to ballistics!

Ballistic builds run just as hot these days, unless your using "energy build" to mean PPC build in which case yeah.

This of course would also come with a reduction or removal of ghost heat ideally, as the built in scale penalties should ideally do more to control player behavior than a few seconds of shutdown with no other consequence.

[Apnu]

Kjudoon, on 12 August 2014 - 12:30 PM, said:

That already exists for LRMs. Trust me. My BLR 1S is a hot sucker, and I'm still eliteing it out.

I know, I'm too still working on elites for the BLR series. Got the 1G to finish basics on. I do like the BLR-1S as a LRM boat, that thing is a monster, but its hot.

[BourbonFaucet]

If I complain about all the complaining people are doing in the game, I'm meta-complaining.

Then anyone who complains about my complaining about the complaining is a level 2 meta complaint.

So anyone who complains about the people complaining about my complaining about all the complaining is a level 3 meta complaint.

and therefore anyone who compl...

[Duck Hunt]

Black hole is black hole

[Kjudoon]

[Johnny Z]

I have not even started whining about this 10 v 12 I am hearing about. But I am getting hyped up for it. If they put the house mechwarriors on a lesser footing then the invasion army.....

BTW there is good reason other games have not even thought about doing this ever, not even one.

A good reason for starters is how do they balance the mechs under those conditions?

I could go on, but it is so much common sense it seems a waste.

Edited by Johnny Z, 13 August 2014 - 11:44 AM.

[Agent of Change]

Johnny Z, on 13 August 2014 - 11:25 AM, said:

I have not even started whining about this 10 v 12 I am hearing about. But I am getting hyped up for it. If they put the house mechwarriors on a lesser footing then the invasion army.....

It would be the other way around theoretically. 10 clan vs. 12 IS.

This number isn't arbitrary it's based on the canonical unit (IS Company is 3 lances of 4, Clan Star is 5 mechs (or elemental squads) and 2 stars would be 10) sizes and happens to theoretically be a balance for stronger clan mechs (which is debatable that we have here).

[Johnny Z]

Canon is neither here nor there. "Canon" could be anything from sticking to the original rule sets for the board game to one of the many books. Like any other game, not one has stuck to canon or history, they all try to make a good game is all.

Either way I was kidding about getting hyped to complain about it and I havnt really given the 10v12 much thought. But it doesnt look good at first.

[MarineTech]