16 replies to this topic

[Hibiki Silvana]

Every mech I got says "Not Upgradable" on every point in the equipment section. I can't change the armor or structure type, heatsink type, or artemis. Why?

[Angel of Annihilation]

Because that a design feature used to balance the clans against IS mechs.

[Hibiki Silvana]

So, cannot tweak or optimize any clan mechs? Not even then engines... Noted....

Edited by Hibiki Silvana, 15 August 2014 - 12:40 PM.

[CygnusX7]

Which is why you can swap omni pods.

[DasaDevil]

Lore wise, Omnimechs are all hardwired with internal specs. Changing things like armor-type, engine size and hardwired heatsinks required an entire redesign of the battlemech. The upside to them would be the Omni-pod system as a whole, as it offers much more flexibility over conventional battlemech designs.

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/OmniMech

Edited by DasaDevil, 15 August 2014 - 12:45 PM.

[Hibiki Silvana]

I was assuming I'd be able to build a bit. It's ok, they're still fun.
Edit: Thanks for the quick replies and info guys!

Edited by Hibiki Silvana, 15 August 2014 - 12:51 PM.

[Joseph Mallan]

DasaDevil, on 15 August 2014 - 12:45 PM, said:

Lore wise, Omnimechs are all hardwired with internal specs. Changing things like armor-type, engine size and hardwired heatsinks required an entire redesign of the battlemech. The upside to them would be the Omni-pod system as a whole, as it offers much more flexibility over conventional battlemech designs.

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/OmniMech

Which is fluff excuse. Don't get me wrong, I support the controls in theory. BUT how long is it between drops? Is it Minutes? Days? Months? Time between battles is all hand wavium.

CW should have repair times as a factor, Clan Wolf comes and fights with the Law. We clash, go back & repair. It takes 1-2 days to get my Mech back to 100% it takes an Omni 4+ HOURS. till its repaired My Atlas-D is OOC... I better have a back up.

[VanillaG]

Hibiki Silvana, on 15 August 2014 - 12:47 PM, said:

I was assuming I'd be able to build a bit. It's ok, they're still fun.

I case you haven't noticed it in the Mechlab, when you click on a part (i.e. Right Arm) there a sub tab called Ominpod. This allows you swap in a different set of hardpoints for that location. The only building you do on clan mechs is shuffle around hardpoints via omnipods.

[Keeshu]

@ Topic

Because we must always have the Timber Wolf getting the maximum benefits and must always be the meta of the clans (until a mech that is similar but doesn't force you to have 5 heat sinks comes into the game).
*trollface*

[Koniving]

Hibiki Silvana, on 15 August 2014 - 12:37 PM, said:

Every mech I got says "Not Upgradable" on every point in the equipment section. I can't change the armor or structure type, heatsink type, or artemis. Why?

Omnimechs instead of Battlemechs. You can change Artemis.

Viktor Drake, on 15 August 2014 - 12:39 PM, said:

Because that a design feature used to balance the clans against IS mechs.

That is not the reason. Clans also have Battlemechs which can do ALL of those things.
However, Omnimechs cannot do that.

To make the typical changes we often do to battlemechs in MWO, it would take 2 to 6 months. Repairs would often take months as well.

An Omnimech however, if you wanted to change the weapons? 30 minutes to an hour at the most. Repair jobs are a lot easier as well. However, this ease comes at a cost. Their engines cannot always hold 10 heatsinks inside of them like many IS and Clan non-Omni engines can.

(PGI's representation of requiring you to add and get a total of 10 heatsinks to an Inner Sphere engine is actually incorrect. Yes, engines require 10 heatsinks minimum however a 180 engine for example comes with 10 heatsinks built in. In MWO for that luxury we must have a 250 engine).

For more. The limitations have nothing to do with PGI's idea of balancing. However you were also not supposed to be able to change the armor allocation either.

Inner Sphere Omnimechs, as PGI stated already, will have identical limitations.

[Hibiki Silvana]

Lol! I completely missed that tab. I doubt I'll miss 3% exp for switching an arm out and not being a variant purist Thanks guys!

[LauLiao]

Joseph Mallan, on 15 August 2014 - 12:51 PM, said:

CW should have repair times as a factor, Clan Wolf comes and fights with the Law. We clash, go back & repair. It takes 1-2 days to get my Mech back to 100% it takes an Omni 4+ HOURS. till its repaired My Atlas-D is OOC... I better have a back up.

Pretty sure you'll find very little support for locking people out of their mechs for hours or even days.

[dario03]

Hibiki Silvana, on 15 August 2014 - 12:37 PM, said:

Every mech I got says "Not Upgradable" on every point in the equipment section. I can't change the armor or structure type, heatsink type, or artemis. Why?

Artemis is the one upgrade you should be able to do. But you need to have a missile omni pod installed first.

[VanillaG]

Koniving, on 15 August 2014 - 01:03 PM, said:

(PGI's representation of requiring you to add and get a total of 10 heatsinks to an Inner Sphere engine is actually incorrect. Yes, engines require 10 heatsinks minimum however a 180 engine for example comes with 10 heatsinks built in. In MWO for that luxury we must have a 250 engine).

No, that rule is in the TT construction ruleset. Every mech must have a minimum of 10 heatsinks and the number that come standard in the engine is Engine Rating/25. If you have a smaller engine than 250, you must allocate the critical space for the extra heatsinks but there is no weight associated with those required to get you up to 10. Anything over 10 required the weight and potentially the crit if it did not fit in the engine.

What PGI did to implement this rule is reduce the weight of the engine based on the number of additional heatsinks required to get you up 10. This is why we can only go down to a 100 rated engine because anything lower and the engines would have negative weight. They have also added the weight of the gyro into the engines which is Engine Rating/100. This is why you see the larger than normal jump between x95 and x00 rated engines.

[Koniving]

VanillaG, on 15 August 2014 - 03:54 PM, said:

No, that rule is in the TT construction ruleset. Every mech must have a minimum of 10 heatsinks and the number that come standard in the engine is Engine Rating/25. If you have a smaller engine than 250, you must allocate the critical space for the extra heatsinks but there is no weight associated with those required to get you up to 10. Anything over 10 required the weight and potentially the crit if it did not fit in the engine.

Had a counter argument, but looking at it the Locust has all 4 heatsinks in the feet and the spider has it hidden in the head.
So you're right here. Just don't see them too well when there's heatsinks in the head and feet. Not used to it.

Quote

What PGI did to implement this rule is reduce the weight of the engine based on the number of additional heatsinks required to get you up 10. This is why we can only go down to a 100 rated engine because anything lower and the engines would have negative weight. They have also added the weight of the gyro into the engines which is Engine Rating/100. This is why you see the larger than normal jump between x95 and x00 rated engines.

Engines are actually heavier in MWO, though.

A 100 rated engine in MWO is 1 tons.
A 60 rated engine on an Urban mech in Battletech/Megamek is 1.5 tons.
(A 30 rated engine is 1 ton).

On the other hand, a Spider empty in MWO + 6 heatsinks with a standard 100 engine is 10 tons.
A Spider with a 30-rated engine on Battletech with 9 additional heatsinks is 8 tons.

The 30-rated engine is listed as 1 ton, the structure is rated at 3 tons, gyro at 1 ton, cockpit at 3 tons, and the heatsinks have no weight, etc. (Going to a 60 rating is 1.5 tons on the engine, 90 rating is 3 tons, a 120 rating is 4 tons and the gyro increased to 2 tons. A 150 engine increased to 5.5 tons and the gyro is still 2 tons (heatsinks are still tonnage free however; which further added to my confusion there).

At 150 and nothing added but the 10 total heatsinks, I'm at 13.5 on MWO
which does match up the 150 and 10 heatsinks on TT.
Interestingly the engine weight is "6.5" in MWO.
The engine weight is 5.5 in TT + 2.0 in Gyro = 7.5

The total weight in TT is 3 tons cockpit, 5.5 tons engine, 3 tons internal structure, 0 tons heatsinks, and 2 tons gyro.
The total weight in MWO is 6.5 tons engine, 4 tons heatsinks, 3 tons internal structure.

It's...odd. Though the gyro and the engine tallied do not equal what the engine weight is in MWO. At ratings less than 100 however, the mech is heavier in BT than it is for the mech with its 100 engine and heatsinks in MWO and that's with heatsinks that weigh nothing.

Kinda screwy. And it also means the Urban mech is impossible.

Edited by Koniving, 15 August 2014 - 04:52 PM.

[Zen Idiot]

LauLiao, on 15 August 2014 - 01:23 PM, said:

Pretty sure you'll find very little support for locking people out of their mechs for hours or even days.

if you were only locked out of it for CW events and not the 'random' drops we have now.

[wolf74]

The Only Engine that is not inline with CBT once you add the Heatsink weights in that is under the 250Rating is the XL 100. All the Other Engine Do Match the CBT Weight

CBT Engine Weight + Gyro Need + Cockpit(3tons) - (Heats Sink Need) = MWO Weight

10-100 Rated Engines Need a 1 Ton Gyro
105-200 Rated Engines Need a 2 Ton Gyro
205-300 Rated Engines Need a 3 Ton Gyro
305-400 Rated Engines Need a 4 Ton Gyro
405-500 Rated Engines Need a 5 Ton Gyro (Due to the weight of these engine They did not get use for BattleMechs until XXL Engines came out but your looking at 40-120Mil per Engine and 6 Critcals Slot in the Left & Right Torso (total of 12 Extra Critical over std Engine) but only 1/3 the Weight of Standard engine (If I remember Correctly) 3070ish