5 replies to this topic

[Clint Steel]

So I often have stated that I hate LRMs, and recently I've felt it had gotten even worse. In order to see the other side of the argument I started playing with a LRM boat (plus there was that Catapult sale). I have to say its even worse than I thought. As a single LRM boat in a pug I regularly get 7-800 damage, with several kills. Even on badly losing teams I get close to 300 damage. On some maps (Caustic to name a big offender) LRMs rule the map, and if a teammate brought a narc, its near instant death for the target.

So anyway the point I'm making is LRMs are too easy to use, and because of that I feel they are in need a change. The change I'm suggesting is a little away from "Lore" I'm sure but hear it out.

The LRMs we have now would be changed to SLRMs, and would have a significantly lowered lauch size (LRM 20 = SLRM 10, LRM 5 = SLRM 2) Otherwise they would function the same, still with an option for Artemis. The new LRMs would come in the current sizes (LRM 20, 10,5) but would be "dumb fire" similar to SRMs, by this I mean you would be able to aim on a point on the ground, fire and forget, these missiles would not give any warning to the mech they are about to hit. You would also be able to shoot over hills. This would require a new aiming mechanic, my first thought is something like the teleport ability in "Dishonored"
http://youtu.be/OBV2w_0yU0Q?t=35s

I know this would be a big change, and there would need to be a lot of tests to balance out how much damage the new LRMs should do, but I think this makes sense from all aspects from a in Lore perspective as 2000 Guided LRMs a match would be cost prohibitive I would think. From a game play perspective this would add a new level of skill to large scale LRMing.

[Draykin]

You know, I would like to see some data besides "I used an LRM boat and got a lot of damage". Was it IS or Clan? What type of launcher did you use? 5? 10? 15? 20? These are important factors that need to be stated. IS and Clan LRMS are very different, as we all know.

Now, to address what you have suggested.

LRMs actually are not that easy. There are many counters to LRMs, such as; ECM, AMS, Radar Derp Module, and Cover. There is also the issue of aiming LRMs. Yes, a lock-on weapon that requires aiming! You have to make sure that your LRMs have a firing arc that does not collide with anything. If, at any point, the LRMs collide with even a tiny rock? You didn't aim well enough, as you just lost some damage. You're in an IS 'Mech and fired within 180m? You did 0 damage.

Next, this "SLRM" idea. No. Why? Because LRMs are lock-on weapons with a dumb fire mode. There is no need to rip this weapon type into two individual systems. Why is there no need? Let me explain something.
-LRMs = Long Range Missiles
-Maximum range of 1000m
-What target stands still long enough for LRMs fired at 1000m to hit them?
-How precise are you at 1000m?
What you suggest is basically that we take LRMs and cut the salvos in half so that locked-on targets take less damage, while keeping vanilla LRMs but forcing them to only fire in dumb-fire mode. When you do this, I will almost guarantee that none of your LRMs will hit, because they have no method to correct their fire after they've been shot, and most people in MWO will move once they are under fire. You basically turn LRMs into slow-moving artillery that, frankly, will never get the job done, because they will never hit.

On top of this, I would address your call for a different aiming method. Your suggestion of a Dishonored type of aiming system does not make sense for indirect fire, as it quite obviously appears that you can only teleport to what you can see, not through solid objects. There is no real way for indirect fire to be possible without some sort of vision, unless you're suggesting something along of lines of being able to aim through obstacles, which is still an issue for a weapon that does not lock on, since that is quite literally blind fire.

The idea of "SLRMs" and LRMs, really, is the idea of turning LRMs into LoS weapons that would require major velocity tweaking to be able to hit reliably, while SLRMs would probably be the only indirect fire weapon ever used in the missile slot. This is, really, something that would kill the system for a lot of people, since LRMs are the only indirect fire system in the game (even if some people, including myself, would like to see a method of direct fire LRM).

While I do not disagree that LRMs may seem 'easy', and 'skill-less', I would very much argue to the actual amount of skill put into an intelligent LRM-user, which can be a devastating force. LRMs do not need to be forcefully split into a "skill-noskill" duo of weapon systems, and it seems like an awful lot of completely unnecessary work to do so. Can you imagine how long it would take a group the size of PGI to make the two systems, a completely need and unique aiming system for one weapon only, do all of the required balancing tests, and then try to keep an additional weapon system balanced among all the of chaos that goes on in the game already?

LRMs are lock-on-or-dumb-fire, indirect fire, bombardment weapons. While a direct fire variant could be interesting to see, you have to accept what LRMs are. They do the job they are meant to do.

[Andi Nagasia]

ok i some times run a Light Lrm Boat, ether a LCT-3S(2X LRM5), or a KFX-D(2X LRM15)(just got it new 2 days ago)
and how i use them i dont feel they are broken, there are alot of things you have to take in to consideration,
Large Lrm Boats may beable to launch alot of Lead down range, but when out of ammo your toast,
to skill fully use Lrm's here's what you have to consider,

0- look on my screen and map for a target,
1- i see an enemy on my screen(indirectly)
2- look to see where he(does my Ally have a good position to keep him in sights)[this tells me if a shot is worth it]
3- start the lock-on, but keep looking at mt enemies location(is he near cover, how fast is he moving)[possible practice shot]
4- how much did my ridicule glow red(how much did i hit him)[this will tell me for certian if he has cover, Ams, or ally with Ams]
5-adjust to fire at him again, or move to another target(is my Ammo worth his damage)[Damage vs Ammo]
6- repeat from 0,(this is how it is when you play a Light Lrm Boat)

you all ways have to keep an eye on your ammo, because if you run out your not helping your team, your dead,
no-skill players will waste their ammo, then not have it when they need it most, when their team needs it most,
i believe that Lrms are easy to learn hard to master, ya No-skills will still get lots of simple and easy damage,
but damage doesn't win matches, kills do, and though Lrms can kill, blind firing never grantees damage,
its all too easy for a Lrm Boat Cat to waste 400+ Lrms on a Bridge Troll, especially without Line of Sight,

[Clint Steel]

Draykin, on 13 August 2014 - 01:21 PM, said:

You know, I would like to see some data besides "I used an LRM boat and got a lot of damage". Was it IS or Clan? What type of launcher did you use? 5? 10? 15? 20? These are important factors that need to be stated. IS and Clan LRMS are very different, as we all know......

I was using IS mech with 2 LRM 15 and 2 LRM 5s

And yes I would like to see data too, though since I don't have any, thats why I started playing one, if you want pics of my stats per match I could give you them.

The current dumbfire mod is pretty lacking, as far as the aiming mechanic i suggested, my thought is that you would be able "zoom" in and out with it (perhaps with the mouse wheel) to have it travel beyond what you can visually see. This would allow you to shoot over unseen hills, and into know cubby holes. Would also like the ability to control arc, though not sure how the mechanic would be implemented, but more complexity in the system would be welcome by me.

Mechs will move if they "know" they are under fire, but there would not be a warning until the first salvo hit, I would also have the LRM damage speed and "pattern" tweaked to make them useful, through testing.

The SLRMs could have their damage buffed, they would be weaker to AMS but more pinpoint when they hit.

I understand the point of LRMs, I just don't like them, and would like to atleast know there was more skill involved in their use, while I get pinned down, or bombarded to hell.

[Clint Steel]

Andi Nagasia, on 13 August 2014 - 03:52 PM, said:

ok i some times run a Light Lrm Boat...

It is true that you can become better with LRMs the more you play, but the skill needed for success isn't near as great as other rolls, and you risk far less, since you don't have to be on the front line, with the only sacrifice being light mechs can close on you, and negate your LRMs (if you are an IS mech, almost no risk in a Clan), but as long as you stay with the group thats hardly a threat, as soon as the light goes into range avoiding your team mates his legs get blown off from the LRMs that seem to aim right for them.

Light LRM boats are probably a little trickier since they have limited ammo and less LRMs per volley. Personally not sure I would try to boat in anything smaller than my Catapult, but have seen some mediums do well with theirs. Since my Cat has just over 2000 LRMs I can fire off pretty willy-nilly and still not run out till the end of the match. Enemies in good cover and under ECM can be problematic, but with the speed of my Cat (about 80kph) and a tag I can usually get someone, and can often open up their ECM mech.

[TibsVT]

I run a Warhawk that I threw together out of boredom and I have to admit the current LRM system does need some tweeking though not in this manner.

That being said.. Hasn't it always?