43 replies to this topic

[PanzerSmurf]

Hello all, I've been playing for a good day and a half now and bought the JR7-K too accommodate my hit and run style, however since I'm new too the game, modifying my mech is something I'm doing out what I seem to find logic and was hoping for some input, where I did things wrong and what I did right.

I've purchased 2 JENNER types so far, but have only modded 1 so far because of credit issues.

The JR7-K JENNER version is currently my main mech and I have modded it in the following way :

Head :

Armor 18 (maxed)

C-Torso :

Put frontal armor on 32 and rear on 12. (maxed)
Standard STD 245 engine.

R-Torso :

Frontal armor on 22, rear 10 (maxed)
Jump jets - Class V
Double heat sink
Beagle Active Probe.

L-Torso :

Frontal armor on 22, rear 10 (maxed)
Jump jets - Class V
AMS module
2x AMS Ammo
C.A.S.E

R-Arm :

Armor 6 (16)
2x Medium Laser

L-Arm :

Armor 5 (16)
2x Medium Laser

R-Leg :

Armor 30 (32)

L-Leg :

Armor 30 (32)


In addition, I have upgraded my mech to use the edro-steel structure which seems to be lighter, as well as using Ferro armor which was the default load (and ofc upgraded too double heat sink), but except for tonnage, I don't really know if this influence the punishment I can take. If someone could elaborate this that would be great! (have looked around the forums a bit and can't really find anything about it).

So I basically removed a good deal of jumpjets and the missile launcher on the model as I bough it in favor of adding a AMS and additional armor and a active probe.

I've already found out that I can't strip down anymore jumpjets without getting issues of being unable to jumpjet out of a canyon when needed.

However I'm not quiet sure I did well on my distribution of Armor. I've already gotten the advice to upgrade my engine asap.

The real questions that linger for me are :

Have I done well on armor distribution ? I've pretty much forgone armoring my arms since they are small and most of the fire is directed at my torso and legs, or is this a misconception ?

Have I maybe invested too much in armor to begin with and which parts are important too heavily armor ?

Once I upgraded my engine which from what I have gathered also allows for more heat, what would I drop should I wish too run 3 ML on each arm if I wish to do so ?

In prolonged combat I tend to be limited in my fire power mostly due to heat, should I focus on a engine too improve this first, or fit in a other heat sink somehow ?

Is my beagle active probe worth it ? although I understand what it does, I don't really get the feeling in combat it does something.

And ofc the general question, have I done proper modding this mech to begin with or am I on the wrong track ?

Any feedback would be appreciated.

[Koniving]

One sec. Putting your mech together in Smurfy....

Okay. I made it here.
First, I refer you to this roughdraft of the Jenner hitbox.


As such, we're going to capitalize on this closed beta hitbox that has never been updated despite the hitbox overhaul of 2013. This, perhaps, might influence them to actually get around to it sometime soon (as right now the current hitbox design BUTCHERS the mech via missiles; especially LRMs).

Here's a quick redo of your armor allocation. Only the armor should be followed here to the letter. The rest, you can modify and exploit however you see fit. I moved your AMS ammo into the arms, no one intentionally aims for them and they are tiny. Even smaller are your side torsos, and about impossible to hit is your head (so long as you're always moving). You can also put ammo under your seat (in the cockpit) and some in the torso.

Currently having damage to the engine itself does NOT disable your mech, so the engine, gyro, etc. will buffer anything you put into those two slots. The things installed into the head will protect your ammo and prevent it from exploding (the chance of it being destroyed before you are killed is less than 1%, and the chance of it detonating is 10% after it is destroyed, so 0.1% or less of actually getting it to explode and kill you before you're already dead is slim to none).

The placement of the jumpjets will keep them alive until the end of time or your mech anyway. Notice how the stuff is stacked on your left side? Keep that alive if you can. The heatsink you'll barely notice disappearing. Take a moment to count how many slots are consumed. 6. The "dynamic armor" doesn't count. So of the 6 slots, there's a 3 in 6 chance of the DHS taking damage, a 2 in 6 chance of the BAP taking damage, and finally a 1 in 6 chance of the AMS taking damage. So, your AMS will last a long time.

If the ammo does detonate in your arm, well it'll go through your side torso first. It isn't a big deal. And very slim to none.

This should preserve your Jenner quite a bit.

An important note about the armor allocation.
The center rear is nothing more than a rectangular flat panel. It is actually easier to hit a Jenner's front torso from the rear than it is to hit its rear. Even so... the rear armor is set very low.

This means that you cannot afford to run in a straight line or away from the enemy without having twisted your mech somewhat to give him your side rather than your back. Straight lines and running with your back to the enemy are suicidal anyway and will get you killed in two or fewer shots if the enemy has ANY clue what they are doing.

You can use the minimap to help you navigate difficult terrain if you can't see off to your left and right too well.

Edited by Koniving, 15 August 2014 - 06:06 AM.

[SnagaDance]

You're already talking about upgrading your engine so you probably know what you should take but I'll reiterate anyway. It's the 300XL you want. Great engine and can be swapped in lots of mechs. After almost a year of playing I've got 3 of them and it's still not enough.

You're talking about a Jenner-K but also mention wanting to mount 3ML in an arm. That can only be done on the F version.

Personally I'd put more armour on those arms, that's where most of your firepower sits.

As for other weaponry options, you might want to experiment with a Narc launcher, or maybe 4 MPL's instead of ML (though even Mastered that will be running hot) which is what I did back when I Mastered the Jenner.

Welcome to Jenner town, it's still my biggest love though I've since branched out to all the different weight classes. Actually helped me to kill other mechs while in my Jenner too.

[PanzerSmurf]

Hmmm, what would be the advice / what would you do too open up some tonnage for increased arm armor ? Take it from the legs ? or maybe drop 1 batch of AMS ammo ?

[Koniving]

PanzerSmurf, on 15 August 2014 - 05:49 AM, said:

Hmmm, what would be the advice / what would you do too open up some tonnage for increased arm armor ? Take it from the legs ? or maybe drop 1 batch of AMS ammo ?

Check back to my post, I edited it all in. And kept your ammo.

[RF Greywolf]

PanzerSmurf, on 15 August 2014 - 05:49 AM, said:

Hmmm, what would be the advice / what would you do too open up some tonnage for increased arm armor ? Take it from the legs ? or maybe drop 1 batch of AMS ammo ?

The AMS ammo would be a start, I would leave your leg armor alone. EVERYONE wants Jenner legs for supper so keep them armored up. The AMS, you will soon find out, will help out your allies more than you. Your jenner is fast and agile enough to get to cover or to get the enemy to lose lock. AT first I highly suggest running AMS for new pilots, soon you will get better at dodging and juking locks that you will not need it as much. S if you are sticking to the pack then the AMS is great, if your out front getting locks and scouting then the weight might be better somewhere else but only when you are confident in your abilities to dodge locks and missiles.

[PanzerSmurf]

Ty all, and especially Koniving for the detailed overview.

[Koniving]

(On a side note for anyone wondering why I didn't move the ammo to the legs... I was killed by an ammo explosion after a jumpjetting accident.)



Both legs were intact when it occurred, but one didn't have armor and was orange.

[PanzerSmurf]

Thanks for all the input guys, at least I did better then I expected but some of the modifications suggested with their explanation makes sense and will help me perfect my little JENNER

Now too test it out in combat >D

Edited by PanzerSmurf, 15 August 2014 - 06:14 AM.

[Modo44]

Given how small dat ass is, you can try to use less back CT than back R/LT armor. Also, you can strip about half a ton of armor off the head and arms combined. It is dangerous, but not suicidal, and it may be just the last touch to perfect a build.

[Fire and Salt]

EDIT: Disregard this advice until you get an XL engine. I was thinking you had an XL when I made this post. Jenners are basically made for XL engines. If you really like jenners, your first big purchase, after double heat sinks, should be an XL300 engine.






Jenner ammo should be in the side torsos (or the head, IF you have good armor there), and it should be crit padded with heatsinks.

Like the arms, they are small.

However, if the side torso gets destroyed, you die anyways.
Since ammo is small and light mechs don't have that much internal structure, it is not that likely that the ammo will blow before the component is destroyed.

If you put 1 ton of highly explosive ammo into a light mech arm, there is a 10% chance of dying when the arm gets blown off.

Sure, you can get killed by an ammo explosion in your side torso... But if you do, you were almost dead anyways.

Edited by Fire and Salt, 15 August 2014 - 06:44 AM.

[Heydiddly]

First off, as demonstrated by Koniving, Smurfy is your friend. You can build any mech you like in there, and share it easily by htting "Save and share loadout" and then pasting the URL, saving you lots of time typing everything out.

Regarding Endosteel and Ferro armour, since noone seems to have mentioned it yet, they are both essentially ways of trading critical slots for tonnage. Both give up 14 slots, but Endo will always free up more tonnage so always take that first if you don't have room for both. Also, neither of them actually affect your durability, they ONLY work for the slots/tonnage trade I described.

Your armour distribution... the front/back split on the centre is fine for now, once you have some experience you can frontload it more. With Jenners (and only Jenners) you can safely reduce the side torso armour a bit and split it 50/50, since they never really get hit from the front and not often from the back. The arms also don't get hit much on Jenners, but they house ALL your firepower so best to armour them up a bit more anyway. Always max the leg armour on light mechs, since they are targetted a lot (you pretty much have, so good stuff there). Head armour is generally safe to drop a little on basically all mechs, since the head is so small the only thing that will hit it normally is a slug of really bad luck.

The AMS! As a general rule of thumb, you need one ton of ammo per AMS, so you can probably drop one ton and put the other in the head, since that is always the safest place for ammo.

The BAP! It has its benefits of course, but on this mech you won't notice them much, so also safe to drop if you wish.

With all that in mind, I present two builds, one with current engine and one with XL 300, since it's pretty expensive.

STD-245

XL-300 (faster and more heat efficient)

These are all just suggestions of course, don't take it as gospel as experimentation is the fastest way to learn! Good luck and have fun!

[Koniving]

For comparison, this is my Jenner F. The only reason I keep the rear side torsos up as high as I do is exclusively because you can hit them from the front along those upper tips. Thankfully an AMS can block that on the left side, but I don't see enough reason to use it.

I'd have to dedicate at least 1 ton to use an AMS, with only half a ton free I slapped that weight in armor onto the cockpit instead. Once the LRMs come in a Jenner that moves slow is screwed regardless. It's a good idea to have more head armor for this design anyway, as this is a slow moving, often stationary sharp shooting support Jenner. Find the nearest assault mech, use it as a walking wall of cover, take potshots and scare off other lights.

This was one of my many practice mechs for when the Clans were still to come in. It's done very well.

Edited by Koniving, 15 August 2014 - 06:37 AM.

[Spheroid]

delete BAP, CASE and one ton AMS ammo. All are unneeded.

[Koniving]

Spheroid, on 15 August 2014 - 06:46 AM, said:

delete BAP, CASE and one ton AMS ammo. All are unneeded.

Truth be told, I agree with the BAP being unnecessary.

In Tabletop (Megamek; digital tabletop) it serves as a full-circle local area radar that can detect enemies out of sight using double blind rules. It's great, and ECM is there to help work against BAP to prevent it from becoming a Jesus box of omnipresence. Of course, ECM wouldn't do anything to standard LRMs which could lock just fine so long as they had line of sight. Just counter all the LRM and SRM-enhancing technology (TAG, Artemis, NARC, spotters [by getting within 180 meters of the spotter to shut it down], non-line-of-sight firing, the list goes on.)

In this game, it works the other way around. BAP only works as range extender, target info gathering speed enhancer, detector of powered off mechs (unlike in the past where the game was slower paced with repair and rearm concerns, this was super useful, however the current game makes this feature completely worthless) and finally a counter for ECM.

ECM won't magically stop your lasers like it magically stops all locked-on missiles, so BAP isn't really necessary. It hasn't got many of the features that would make it useful for non-streak and non-LRM users.

The only real reason to keep it is to have a range extension for spotting.

Edited by Koniving, 15 August 2014 - 06:54 AM.

[PanzerSmurf]

Spheroid, not to be disrespectful or anything, but your post offers me 0 help, it just tells me what to do, it does not explain why, I won't learn anything or know why to do it or not to do something.

[Modo44]

BAP is used mainly on mechs with homing missiles (SSRM, LRM). Since one BAP disables one ECM in its vicinity, an LRM or streak boat can keep getting locks and firing even with one enemy ECM mech nearby. If you do not bring it, a good light pilot can effectively put you out of combat by just getting close. BAP is not really needed on any other mech since its other benefits rarely outweigh the 1.5 tons it takes.

[PanzerSmurf]

Hmmm, so my BAP is only useful as a support tool when my team has a good deal of missile mechs ? (next too increasing my spotting range slightly ?)

Edited by PanzerSmurf, 15 August 2014 - 07:01 AM.

[Heydiddly]

PanzerSmurf, on 15 August 2014 - 06:51 AM, said:

Spheroid, not to be disrespectful or anything, but your post offers me 0 help, it just tells me what to do, it does not explain why, I won't learn anything or know why to do it or not to do something.

CASE prevents ammo explosions from carrying through multiple components (for example, your side torso AMS ammo explodes, destroys the side, then carries through to your CT and destroys that too, killing you). Since you had your ammo in the side torso though, which as I mentioned before won't tend to take much damage, you don't need it in that build. It's also useless in all XL engined builds unless you stack your arms full of ammo, but that's generally a bad idea anyway.

Edited by Heydiddly, 15 August 2014 - 07:02 AM.

[Spheroid]

@Panzer. Two tons of AMS is excessive. It is hard for a medium or heavy to burn off that much before dying. All else being equal lighter mechs will die sooner for the same volume of received fire.

AMS and machine gun ammo has very little explosive damage potential. Usually those types of ammo are least in need of CASE. Also you can always put ammo in the head.

You have no long range weapons or streaks that would benefit from BAP. Therefore it is correct to say it is dead weight. ECM burnthrough takes too long with BAP anyways, it very infrequently yields CECM bonuses during normal play.

You should max your jump jets and use the remaining mass for heatsinks or perhaps a SRM4.

Edited by Spheroid, 15 August 2014 - 07:12 AM.