33 replies to this topic

[YaKillinMeSmalls]

If you're wanting to use a sale to get 'mechs that you'll eventually get anyway, then I would point out that the larger the mech on sale, the bigger your savings. You might save 300k on a Commando, but you'll save yourself 3mil on an atlas.

[JC Daxion]

YaKillinMeSmalls, on 15 August 2014 - 02:16 PM, said:

If you're wanting to use a sale to get 'mechs that you'll eventually get anyway, then I would point out that the larger the mech on sale, the bigger your savings. You might save 300k on a Commando, but you'll save yourself 3mil on an atlas.

yea,, that is kinda what i am thinking too.. The stalker is really tempting though... but i already have 2 altas, so maybe i should just get the D.... You guys all convinced me that it is different enough than the DDC and K, that it would be worth getting.. It also getting them to master will really give me an idea if i want to shell out the money and get the Boar's head down the road...


So thanks a bunch people.. feel free to comment more.. But i think when i got the C-bills, and the new bay, a Brand New D will be parked in it.. just waiting for me to finish up mastering the 3 Wolverines i am working on now.. All just dinged speed boost.. woot!

[Josef Koba]

I don't think you can go wrong with the D. I own every Atlas and they're all mastered; they were my first few mechs. They're surprisingly versatile, though they don't boat as well as other platforms. Think: Well-rounded. I take out the D-DC and the D most frequently, followed by the BH. The D-DC is two AC/5s, two large lasers, SRM6 and two SRM4s. I threw in the command console just because I had one from when I bought the mech. Of course, ECM. My D is AC/20, two large pulse, two med las (CT) and two SRM6s. It's my brawler. It can run hot, but I rarely overheat, surprisingly. The BH I fiddle around with and don't have a stable loadout. However, it's the only assault in which I use an XL, because I like tooling around the battlespace at ludicrous speeds for a 100 tonner. But it's dangerous, as I'm sure you can imagine. Not nearly as survivable.

Anyway, I don't think you'll be disappointed in the Atlas. Treat it right and it'll bring you rewards.

[JigglyMoobs]

JC ,

To be quite honest I keep looking at your post and thinking that this would be a reasonable conversation ablucksix months ago. Today? I just don't see how any of these builds can survive against can mechs and lrm swarms.

How do you expect to live in a stalker with xl engine? How do you not get lrmed and focus fired to death in an atlas without ecm? There are is mechs that can go toe to toe with clan, lrms, and meta and win today, but none of these options are it.

The funny thing is I went through almost the exact sequence of mechs as you and loved all of them in their own time. Started out on dragon, bought atlai and elites them. Bought hunchies and loved them. Played stalkers. They ere each great in their own time but not right now. Several things have happened:

The atlas suffered huge movement needs.
Clan mechs showed up with much more mobility and firepower.
Lrms got buffed along with narc and now every low to mid elo pug team are bringing tons.

So, to me, playing some of these mechs today and trying to level them seem an exercise in frustration.

On the other hand, nothing like trying what you love and finding out for yourself so if you really want to, good lycj .

[SethAbercromby]

JigglyMoobs, on 15 August 2014 - 04:24 PM, said:

So, to me, playing some of these mechs today and trying to level them seem an exercise in frustration.

Sorry but I have do disagree with you on pretty much every level. Atlas has always suffered from movement and people learned to play around it, or went for larger engines for increased mobility. Just to put it into perspective, the STD255 on the Stalker is the exact same rating to tonnage as the STD300 on the Atlas, which results in a much larger need of tonnage investement to get the same speed increase on an Atlas as on a Stalker with a STD300 engine (that means you need considerably more than a STD345). People get into an Atlas with the expectation of going slow, because it's 100 tons heavy. You don't expect them to suddenly grow thrusters out of their butt and going at Mach 1.

Stalkers never lived with XL engines. The 5S worked okay in tabletop because it disregarded actual shape. Under life fire, everyone that has taken the stock 5S to the field will realize that a XL will spell trouble and we can use this thread to warn him before he does. Simple as that.

Besides, talking about Stalkers, there was almost no point in time in this game Stalkers weren't a good 'Mech to use. Maybe no competetively, but most people here really don't care about competetive gaming when they start out here. They are flexible, provide excellen energy and missile focused hardpoints and tank like nobodys buisness.

EDIT (clarification): If you want an Assault that is primarily focused on fire support rather than being the driving force of the field or a poptarder (yes, you are not the first if you pick to be the latter), but is capable of taking its role at the front when needed, the Stalker is a very good coice. It's a very well-balanced, rather forgiving fronline 'Mech I have no second thoughs to reccomend to people looking for a way into the Assault chassis.

LRMs weren't buffed, they are actually working now. In case you didn't notice, neither speed or damage has been increased over the last few patches. What happened were sucsessful attemps of improving hit registrtion (you know, the thing that made SRMs crap and now they're useful too?) and a patch that made Narc actually useful and not a waste of tonnage. It's bloody obvious missiles are now used as a secondary weapon, because that's what they are for. That's like going to a Battlefield Server and complain about people using pistols to get kills.

Clans 'Mechs are pretty cool and PGI is still finding the sweet spots where they need to get tweaked a little, but overall, they are fairly balanced to me. I think AC burst fire need to be more of a thing as it is now and be implemented for IS as well to get pinpoint under control, Clan lasers and PPCs should run a little hotter on average and maybe introduce a heat feedback system that increases heat buildup when the weapons are used at close range. I think that would even the playing field quite a bit as it would pronounce their range advantage by reinforcing their close range disadvantages.

Sized hardpoints thogh, that would solve so much here.

Edited by SethAbercromby, 15 August 2014 - 05:31 PM.

[JC Daxion]

@jiggly moobs


yea.. I guess i am a low-mid Pug player and some matches are like LRM hell... but LRM's don't bother me that much.. i use cover fairly well i think, i do my best to let um target me from afar.. fire and get cover to waste a lotta ammo.. depending on the match mileage varies.

(i am also an LRM player in a few mechs so i got a handle on them i think) what always get's me are those darn gauss rifles from 1k+ when i can't even see the target.. darn eyes are going bad! Not really sure what to say about an atlas with out ECM.. seeing i have no experience in them, but i am always in the mind set, things change.. so who knows what will come up in a few months.. I am not against parking a mech for 8+ months.. *cough catapult's

But as for the stalker with the XL-255, and all my other XL engines.. those are all for lighter mechs, like if i ever buy a spider, But i also have a Cataphract 4x, which the 4AC-5 build i wanna try needs.. so why the heck not right? . For me i think 65 tons and lower is what XL's are for (though not all 65 ton mechs and under do i use them, a few i still like STD builds).. But the one that has it, seams like it will do decent. But you do bring up valid points to think about...


All i know is when i come across a stalker, it is a bear to take down if fully armored.. maybe it has weakness i don't know about? Well other than being in a fast mech and getting behind it so it can't shoot ya, but to me that is many mechs.

Edited by JC Daxion, 15 August 2014 - 05:31 PM.

[Alaskan Nobody]

JC Daxion, on 15 August 2014 - 05:29 PM, said:

All i know is when i come across a stalker, it is a bear to take down if fully armored.. maybe it has weakness i don't know about? Well other than being in a fast mech and getting behind it so it can't shoot ya, but to me that is many mechs.

Hit it from above or below if you can.

From the front and sides it is almost pure side torso's - but from above and below it is almost pure center torso.
That and other than that one variant, it has awful torso twist and no lateral arm swing.

[SethAbercromby]

Shar Wolf, on 15 August 2014 - 05:31 PM, said:

Hit it from above or below if you can.

From the front and sides it is almost pure side torso's - but from above and below it is almost pure center torso.
That and other than that one variant, it has awful torso twist and no lateral arm swing.

Once you have a feel for it and the Elite bonus, it's managable, but it can feel awkward sometimes. Yeah, about the above and below, people usually forget the below part but alway keep the above part in mind when you hear that LRM warning. They will mostly impact with your CT unless you actively try to migitate damage.

Edited by SethAbercromby, 15 August 2014 - 05:37 PM.

[Unnatural Growth]

Hey JC,

There's always more sales, right? I've gotten to the point where I normally don't even buy a mech unless it's 50% off anymore (except the Kit Fox-had to buy one to try out, so just bought the -S when it came out for C-bills).

I bought three Atlai when they had them all on sale together, the D-DC, D and K. Truth be told, I've only really piloted the -DC so far, maybe a match or 2 each in the others so far. You can play them stock, but I would at least swap to DHS's first. But I've kept the stock engines in mine. I think after I get the D-DC mastered, I may or may not keep the other 2. They do "feel" slow for sure, but then, to me, they feel "realistic", a 100 ton mech should "feel slow", kind of weird I guess but it seems like better immersion.

I mastered 3 Stalkers, and kept the -F and the -S. I think my third was the -N and I sold it since I really didn't play it much. The -F is the best "brawler" (note, I don't have the Misery-so don't know how that one brawls, but I have been killed by them plenty of times). The -F has the best twist, and you can feel the difference. The -S is my only true dedicated missile boat + dual AMS. XL's are suicide in Stalkers. Just don't.

Cicadas are fun as long as you play them like a non-JJ light. Fast, twitchy, and moderate punch. I kept the -M and have the X-5, but sold my third since I just didn't play it. XL-300 to 330's help the Cicada builds imho. I play them as light repellant/enemy harasser, and (-M) as ECM escort.

Oh, and dropped against you last night in Tourmaline. At least this time, my team was victorious... And yeah, I'm rusty as hell for not playing for months straight. Maybe some time we'll drop on the same team.

[JigglyMoobs]

JC Daxion, on 15 August 2014 - 05:29 PM, said:

@jiggly moobs


yea.. I guess i am a low-mid Pug player and some matches are like LRM hell... but LRM's don't bother me that much.. i use cover fairly well i think, i do my best to let um target me from afar.. fire and get cover to waste a lotta ammo.. depending on the match mileage varies.

That's great. Also if you don't have one get a radar deprivation mod ASAP. I know they are expensive and costly on GXP, but you just need 1 and then you can switch that between all your mechs. Also, if you don't have enough gxp, I'd consider just using some mc to convert mech specific XP to gxp. It's worth it for this module.

Quote

(i am also an LRM player in a few mechs so i got a handle on them i think) what always get's me are those darn gauss rifles from 1k+ when i can't even see the target.. darn eyes are going bad!

They are using the advanced zoom module, which is very nice if you use long range weapons.

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Not really sure what to say about an atlas with out ECM.. seeing i have no experience in them, but i am always in the mind set, things change.. so who knows what will come up in a few months.. I am not against parking a mech for 8+ months.. *cough catapult's

All variants of the Atlas used to be a lot fun because even though they were slow and had low mounted weapons hardpoints you can scramble up and down hills and use terrain to hit at enemy mechs then disappear back into cover. Unfortunately, with the movement nerfs a few months back, now you get stuck on things everywhere you try to go with the Atlas, and your low arms become a real impediment to effectively shooting at people. I've been using my DDC like a bridge troll. Most of the time I'm hiding until an unsuspecting enemy gets too close, then out I come with the big stick and WHACK, he's down.

The value of the ECM in these situations is that you can still protect your team while hiding. Without the ECM, I'm never feeling like I'm doing enough to help my team win.

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But as for the stalker with the XL-255, and all my other XL engines.. those are all for lighter mechs, like if i ever buy a spider, But i also have a Cataphract 4x, which the 4AC-5 build i wanna try needs.. so why the heck not right? . For me i think 65 tons and lower is what XL's are for (though not all 65 ton mechs and under do i use them, a few i still like STD builds).. But the one that has it, seams like it will do decent. But you do bring up valid points to think about...

That's great. XL stalkers are cringe worthy when you see them on the battlefield.

Quote

All i know is when i come across a stalker, it is a bear to take down if fully armored.. maybe it has weakness i don't know about? Well other than being in a fast mech and getting behind it so it can't shoot ya, but to me that is many mechs.

The real problem with the Stalker is that it doesn't put out enough firepower for an assault and are not very fast without the XL engines, so you can just bypass them and kill their friends.

The Misery with the 2 ppcs and the AC/20 was great..... but PGi nerfed the AC/20. Maybe with the lower PPC speed now you can use that combo again. Haven't seen a lot of people running around with them though.

The only effective Stalkers I've seen lately are the LRM boats, but then you spend the entire game clicking on a single button, and maybe occasionally pressing W...

Edited by JigglyMoobs, 16 August 2014 - 05:21 PM.

[SethAbercromby]

JigglyMoobs, on 16 August 2014 - 05:18 PM, said:

The real problem with the Stalker is that it doesn't put out enough firepower for an assault and are not very fast without the XL engines, so you can just bypass them and kill their friends.

The Misery with the 2 ppcs and the AC/20 was great..... but PGi nerfed the AC/20. Maybe with the lower PPC speed now you can use that combo again. Haven't seen a lot of people running around with them though.

The only effective Stalkers I've seen lately are the LRM boats, but then you spend the entire game clicking on a single button, and maybe occasionally pressing W...

It's nice to see people spreading false rumors about the Stalkers again. Really, get in the seat first before claiming the Stalker to be a coward's 'Mechs, especially when using an Atlas to hide in corners (I just point and laugh at how horribly awful those LRM boat builds are. Don't take those as anything other than dual MG Atlas bad). Yes, it's primary role is fire support rather than sniping or full-on brawling, but I also hate the thought that anything that wants to do damage, MUST use the AC20, MUST use some arbitrary PPC/Gauss Combo, because otherwise it's not good enough.

I've killed a lot of people that thought my Stalkers an easy kill or wanted to bypass me just to find themselves with me hitting an alpha into their back armor. If we meet on the field, I'll make sure to remind you of your words

Besides, running a STD300 is pretty easy on the Stalker. Endo Steel puts a few limits on what you casn do with your remaining tonnage, but it's far from being overly restrictive.

Edited by SethAbercromby, 16 August 2014 - 06:09 PM.

[Zordicron]

OP

The D is the real brute of the Atlas group. It should be built as Brawler supreme, because the alpha strike you can pull out of it with SRM in the missile slots is rediculous. DDC has the ECM, and it is also a potent brawler. maybe it is just the two laser slots in the CT, but my D, man you just play it like the MW3 intro movie, and profit. Thing is a walking sledgehammer.

Stalkers: Please dont put LRM on them, maybe the H with its ok tube count you could run a mixed range loadout, but the rest? Brawlers, with a weapon or two for longer range. For instance, my 4N( oooh, yes i know, why would I use it it is so bad cause it has one less hardpoint!!!!!- popular bullshit from the forumites) 2 PPC, 4 MPL, 3 SSRM2. Swap out streaks for SRM6, PPC for ERLL for more facepunch but no guidance. Dont camp, move into closer range for brawl powah.

Stalkers are about as tough as they come, losing a side torso just means you cant alpha as hard, but you are still very dangerous. If you learn to spread dmg well, the enemy will have to litterally shred your entire mech to take you down. There is even a variant with a CT laser point for when you get skilled in dmg spread, fight to the very last. Misery is solid with the AC20, I skipped the SRM and went 4ML and an ERLL in CT so i had some range. 40 point alpha in 270M, ERLL adds 9 more and can reach pretty far while you are closing the gap. Protect that AC20 side though till the ammo is gone. Most stalkers dont have that consideration as the loadouts can be symetrical.

Dont let people tell you Dragon is ****, its fun to use, and plays differently then most IS heavy. Want somthing fun? 2x PPC and AC10. hot as all get out, but nobody suspects 30 point alpha strike dragon to blow their side torso off. Plus its fast for its size, if you put a decent engine in it. not a top tier mech, but it's not some garbage mech either, one of those that responds really well or bad depending on pilot.

Hope to see you on the field.

[JigglyMoobs]

SethAbercromby, on 16 August 2014 - 06:05 PM, said:

I've killed a lot of people that thought my Stalkers an easy kill or wanted to bypass me just to find themselves with me hitting an alpha into their back armor. If we meet on the field, I'll make sure to remind you of your words

[wanderer]

JC Daxion, on 15 August 2014 - 10:53 AM, said:

I already own the DDC, and the K... I was really thinking about getting the boards head for my last one. But being short on cash, and really never playing the atlas's i own as of yet, i have just not gotton it.. But this sale it seems like a perfect time to get it.. I just wonder if it is going to be to much like the K i already own.. and thus, never use it.. Should i hold off and just wait for the boars head? (not a big deal, i got lots to play anyway)

Or should i get the dragon i want (own the 5n), Or another cicada (own the 3M) both are on the list to get 3 to master.

My other thoughts are i do have a misery, But i really want the 5S, but that is not on sale, And the other, i was thinking the F, But the champion has the XL-310 which i would like to use in a thunderbolt built, so i could just delay that till later.. But the 3H is calling me.. it sorta reminds me of the catapult, but just more firepower.


SOooo people, what do i do with this fresh new bay, and what do i blow my money on.. (though need to grind a little more cash for a few.. spent to much upgrading mechs last night

If you're going to be mastering the Atlas (namely, for the D-DC), this is a cheap way to get the third chassis you need to do so- and you can always scrap it later once you're elited out and can master-rank the others.