44 replies to this topic

[ExAstris]

All PGI would need to do is implement these weapons as a 4th type and then allow crit-splitting for just these weapons. So give the C3 on 'artillery' mount on its right arm, then when you put one of these weapons in there, the leftover crits spill into the right torso. Not enough crits in those two locations means you can't mount it.

This also simplifies the art process as every mech with such an artillery mount only need to have the geometry to fit into an artillery slot, and not all of the missile/cannon slots various mechs currently have.

I can't imagine the Arrow IV would be hard to implement either. Why can't it just behave like one big LRM with more range and the splash damage mechanic from current artillery?

And if we wanted to get fancy with it, give it various blast ranges that do various amounts of damage. Then tune its tracking so that the fastest mechs moving at full speed only get tagged by the outermost ring of shrapnel while assaults take the innermost ring for maximum damage. Then tune its HP so that each AMS firing at it on the way down can cause it to detonate earlier increasing your likelihood of taking damage from a lower damage ring.

Tune damage at each distance increment, travel speed, and fire-rate to balance. Done.

[9erRed]

Greetings all,

The Arrow IV missile was not susceptible to AMS fire, at least in other games.
- The method it was modeled in MW:LL was to have a dark black exhaust smoke trail, if you saw it arcing up and towards you, it was time to 'get out of Dodge'. Even if it wasn't aimed directly at you, area of effect was rather large.
- Shock wave radiating out from the impact was also impressive.
- This was a somewhat slow missile so a bit of time to react, if you saw it.

Enemy or friendly Mech's in the impact area were all effected.
- Best to tell your team missile inbound at "XY" location.

Somewhat difficult to locate a launch location that offered LOS to the target location.
- If you had a TAG unit forward, they could locate and mark the target for the missile. (location, not Mech.)
- the missile followed the TAG point, so you better trust the element tagging.
- Max range was also about 3000mtrs. Well outside any return fire ranges.
- Also included an advanced extended zoom optics with the system.

So if it was modeled anywhere close to this, that's quite a few new and changed items to build.
- And this is with only one type of warhead, there were many available.

Just saying,
9erRed

[Eddrick]

I still remeber that response from the "Ask the devs" #34. A lot of changes have happened since then. It was back when consumables were first being introduced in MWO. It is possible they may be willing to change their mind ("That was our position at the time").

What kind of edge cases were they afraid of? The Gausszilla (5 Gauss Rifle Anihilator)?

A couple possible ways to allow critical slot splitting without fear of it turning out broken:

#1. They can allow critical slot splitting for Artillery Weapons only.

#2. Sized Hardpoints can eliminate most fear of critical slot splitting being abused.

The Sniper Artillery Piece that comes stock on the Helepolis Battlemech is what I want.

Damage: 20/10 (20 on target hex and 10 on all adjacent hexs)
Range: Over 9000m
Tonnage: 20
Critical Slot: 20

Long Tom Cannon can do most of the same. It just has under 1000m range and costs 15 Critical Slots instead of 20. I want the range. The good splash damage is a second.

Edited by Eddrick, 09 October 2014 - 07:37 PM.

[Bespoke Cheese Cake]

I am in opposition to the long tom being in the game for multiple reasons many of which I see already listed by others. I also think that the artillery module is sufficient as an alternative.

[9erRed]

Greetings all,

I'm sure 'Alex' would go nuts over his re-designing that Helepolis Mech, arriving with a LRM10, SRM6, ERL Laser and that monster cannon on it's shoulder.
- That's a 75Ton Mech with a 225 engine and Case installed as default.
- For those that don't know here's one artists impression of it.




Reference the Arrow IV system, it's not until the later version the C5 that this Catapult (C3 was a fail due to lack of ammo) comes into it's own. With an Endosteel frame and 3 times the ammo storage.

9erRed

Edited by 9erRed, 10 October 2014 - 05:39 AM.

[Clydewinder]

Crit splitting is not necessary. Break the weapon into "Long Tom Arm" and "Long Tom Torso" components, require both to be installed. Done.

Or Arrow IV or whatever...

Edited by Clydewinder, 10 October 2014 - 12:26 PM.

[Tim East]

Arctcwolf, on 15 August 2014 - 10:31 PM, said:

crit splitting for specific weapon systems isnt a difficult dynamic to implement. the issue will be how to aim and fire such systems, while also looking at how the crits are distributed.

We already have dynamic actuators. It would not be too far-fetched to simply say that any weapon that is even partially in your torso via crit-splitting (and no, I don't have a problem with the idea of people using this for AC20/gauss either) would use your torso reticule.

[MechWarrior319348]

Don't they already do this "crit splitting" thing with xl engines? Why couldn't the long Tom just use the same principle? It would be a special piece of equipment with special crit properties.

Really my point is that if they really wanted to, they could implement it. So other than technical stuff, why not add it? Sure it is extremely powerful, but it is heavy as hell, takes up a shitload of space, is limited to large mechs, and suffers from severe amunition problems. Which don't mix well with the fact that aiming it is difficult.

A another thing to keep in mind is that splash damage is a problem for you and your teammates, it requires good fire discipline.

[TheLuc]

as long we support the game cash wise, all the battletech gimmick will appear slowly, wallets are louder than the forums boys.

[Seigaku]

Well..... i welcome any weapon to the game, since im tired of always the same weapons... but i can see the rage coming from people because n00bs have killed 4 ally mechs that were close to a enemy because of a Long Tom

[50 50]

At the moment the Arrow IV could be added as another consumable option.
The smoke trail effect and having some need to tag the target first would give it some difference in appearance and
use.

There was recent talk about the new scout missions and something about the longtom being an objective for the mission I believe.
Can anyone confirm that?

[VinJade]

there are so many things wrong with having such a weapon.
like Friendly fire for one.

if we have team mates fighting up close such as short range like those that mount nothing but small pulse lasers or mechs who's main feature is MGs(I think that is a Firestarter Real cash mech) would be hammered hard if not out right destroyed.

not to mention anything outside of an Urbanmech would out run it..

there is just so much that can go wrong or abused.. not to mention it would be a TKer's wet dream come to life.

as to the crit split they already allow the broken crit rule with the King Crab as it's ACs are suppose to be split between the arms and the torso, yet they skirted around this.

so one could argue they could do the same thing with the long tom.

after all they have NO excuse since they are willing to break the rules for the Crab.

Though my short answer is no.

Edited by VinJade, 25 July 2015 - 10:12 AM.

[Gremlich Johns]

I'd rather have the heavy gauss.

[Strength Damage Cliff Racer]

Well, I'd love to have one, but with this beast using battlegrid for firing rather than locking and tapping the trigger, with no trajectory analysis assistance (So, no magic orb telling if shot will hit intended target or hit the mech/mountain on the way).
That will make it difficult to use, very situational, unsafe due to temporary blindness. With all the cons combined, we may be allowed to get fullscale one, without considerable adjustment nerfs.

[Exilyth]

Ofc we should get the long tom, right after the ammo switching mechanic on the LBX

[VinJade]

No need to pay any attention to the Jag, their all smoke & no fire

Back on topic;
still a weapon system that could be abused easily and a TKer could easily destroy an entire light lance and odds are could wound mediums all the way to assaults and claim accidental damage/death, ect.

Edited by VinJade, 24 April 2016 - 11:32 PM.

[Karl Streiger]

the LONG TOm as a player used weapon would hardly over exceed the damage of a single shell of the artillery consumeble.
The abomination called Long Tom in FP is obviously a upgraded version of the Davy Crocket - M using ~1KT Nukes

[Rogue Jedi]

VinJade, on 24 April 2016 - 11:31 PM, said:

No need to pay any attention to the Jag, their all smoke & no fire

Back on topic;
still a weapon system that could be abused easily and a TKer could easily destroy an entire light lance and odds are could wound mediums all the way to assaults and claim accidental damage/death, ect.

yes, destroy an entire lance then have to wait 20+ minutes after clicking launch for the next match because of the teamkill penalty, possibly also the high threshold for team damage making it a few hours penalty.
If the player does this a second time he would not be able to have an other match that day, and would likely have received enough reports to receive a ban.

as for close up Mechs simple, just send out a warning, preferably with some built in notification (to be added) using the battlegrid, e.g. "I am about to arty Delta 6 Echo 5 corner, get out of there", provided you give sufficient warning (e.g. 10 seconds) that could even be used to remove the penalty for team damage/team kill if the other players are stupid enough to ignore the warning

[VinJade]

That's the point though unless there is an automated warning a TKer could cause trouble, also remember if a TKer is unable to play the rest of the day they could just as easily have a different one to play as normal or TK again.

[50 50]

Unfortunately the artillery pieces for the mechs are not practical for the modes we currently have.
The minimum range is greater than the dimensions of the maps.
If we had truly massive maps, (Or the mechs bet miniaturised) then ok, worth considering.

However, one way I can see things like the mech version of the long tom and the arrow 4 being introduced is as some sort of mission requirement.
For example:
The mech needs to get to location X on the map to conduct an artillery barrage against targets that are off the map.

It could be done as a quick play mode where it would feel more like an escort mission but it would not be much different to Assault probably. I could see it working better in faction play, perhaps as an 8v8 mode. It would be nicer to combine the modes a bit better in faction play for this.