116 replies to this topic

[Fire for Effect]

Any support to steam and releasing this game also by steam is support for steam is to be avoided.

So I am not talking on a personal level, but on a much broader perspective.

Reason is they brought the sickness on mandatory online connection to the gamers anything that is of any possible use for steam has to be avoided. Getting new games into their grubby greedy hands to distribute is definitely an advantage for them.

It is sad that you cannot refrain from personal attacks instead of using arguments. The reasons why steam is to be hated are on the table in plain view for anyone.

[Wildcat]

Twisted Power, on 22 June 2012 - 01:53 PM, said:

You guys don't understand. MWO is going to be so awsome it won't need Steam! Word of Mouth, best marketing ever.

This...


I hear about MWO from other Game Forums as it is, we just have to keep bringing up MWO once in a While in other Games.... just have to make sure more people are aware of MWOs existence


Would be good to expose MWO to the 4mill or so players constantly on Steam, But not if they are going to make Crazy crackpot Demands...

[Paul McGovern]

Steam can go offline at any time. They update and don't tell you they'll be unavailable. It has a bad habit of not working.

[Noth]

Fire for Effect, on 28 June 2012 - 01:32 AM, said:

Any support to steam and releasing this game also by steam is support for steam is to be avoided.

So I am not talking on a personal level, but on a much broader perspective.

Reason is they brought the sickness on mandatory online connection to the gamers anything that is of any possible use for steam has to be avoided. Getting new games into their grubby greedy hands to distribute is definitely an advantage for them.

It is sad that you cannot refrain from personal attacks instead of using arguments. The reasons why steam is to be hated are on the table in plain view for anyone.

I've seen no personal attacks. And no the problems listed are not problems. Resource draining? Only if your machine is severely outdated, many IM clients take more resources. Bug ridden? Most bugs are from the developers, not steam. Take away your games? Nope, never, they guarantee their availabilty even if steam is discontinued. Only installs to the C dive? False, it installs where you ask it to. Downtimes? Steam doesn't have maintenance downtimes, and unplanned downtimes are fixed asap (just like any online service. Sacns your hardrive and send info? Nearly any other program that connects online does this, even your operating system. Nasty DRM? It's much less invasive than nearly every other form of DRM, it allows unlimited installs on unlimited computers (unlike most other styles of DRM. It is the friendliest form of DRM. You really want those invasive DRMs that could brick you disk drives, hide in all sorts of places including teh root directory in place of steam? DRM is here and it's going to stay, may as well get used to it.

Also complaining about Online activation being needed for an online game is quite dumbfounding.

Also no one here has said that Steam should be the only way to get the game or for steam to be even required.

Broader perspective is that steam has been a blessing to gamers and game developers. It allows small developers to get their games to large numbers of people with minaimal need to advertise at all. We wouldn't be seeing a boom in the number of indie games (and many of them are very very good) if it wasn't for steam.

Wildcat, on 28 June 2012 - 01:53 AM, said:

Would be good to expose MWO to the 4mill or so players constantly on Steam, But not if they are going to make Crazy crackpot Demands...

Steam doesn't make crackpot demands. If they did you would not see as many games on it as you do.

Edited by Noth, 28 June 2012 - 02:02 AM.

[Fire for Effect]

The friendliest form of DRM is no DRM.

And no I wont get used to it I simply cease buying such things.

A blessing maybe for studios but I sincerely doubt it since the justification is using a false idea: that any pirated game is also bought if copying is not possible. That each pirated game is if the game is actually good also free advertisement seems to be completely ignored. DRM only helps bad games in the first few weeks before it has been circulated that the game is actually bad. Good games can sell without any advertisement. Strangly as I already have stated several even small studios get by without any DRM. The kickstarter funded games are without any DRM. Audio CDs are also without any DRM still they get bought.


Noone has hinted to the idea that steam should be the only source it is just the generell idea that an online game is ALSO available on steam that is apalling since it will generate income for one of the companies that is well hated among old school gamers.


If I wish to sell my game I do so, if I wish to install my game on any pc I own I also do that. There are indeed some people who do not have a permanent online connection and many more do not wish that steam calls home if the player might be allowed to actually play a game he has paid for. And yes steam can also be circumvented it is just a very annoying process. Another bad habit of steam is the fact that you cannot simply tranfer the entire game folder into your ramdisk and play from there. works like a charm with lord of the rings online for example and with fallout 3. you just have to remember where to put your save game files... Fallout new vegas it does not work properly -> STEAM; fan made tools are also not working well due to this annoying steam junk. If you kill the steam client many games are indeed much more stable (if you can call Fallout new vegas currently stable...). And yes I have also seen several times when steam was a bit faulty and my games were not working.

How do you know what steam demands be it financially or otherwise? If the demands would be fairly low EA would not have started its own online annoyance center. If you have reached a certain size you can do demand ludicrous things and these will be accepted.

Any demand they have is to much since it will be deducted from the earnings of the actual developer, they have only set up a cloud computing outfit.

I want for offline games an actual physical DVD/CD from which I can install at any time and from any place I wish. As far as I am concerned steam can consdense to warm water and seep into the ground.

You have your opinion about steam you think it is great wonderful thing; I hate steam for making online connection and registration mandatory and making this socially acceptable. These opinions will never no matter what you or I say be able to converge into a concensus.

[matux]

How about NO SCOTT!....... why should i have to use steam for a game that doesnt need it..... Why should i have to be connect to blizzard to play D3, they both shouldn't exist, hopefully the former doesn't.

I used to manage a net cafe before steam for cafes came out...... and it is a steaming load of ****

This game doesn't need steam, it has a cult following at the least and im torn between playing this and NWN at the moment.. when ever they come out that is)

Edited by matux, 28 June 2012 - 04:06 AM.

[Noth]

You hate DRM, you hate online activation. Did you know you can play offline games offline in steam. Steam has an offline mode. You only have to de onine for the original activation. Don't have always on net? Then when you are on activate the game, then run in off line mode. Steam's demands are low enough that indie developers can afford them. Were talking people that barely make any money off nearly every game they make due to the small audiences they hit. EA made origin because they wanted to copy steam, and needed to upgrade EA downloader which was horrid (origin is not much better).

I say again, if you hate DRM (and steam did not make online activation popular as many companies were doing it after numerous drm fiascos), you should just stop pc gaming, because it's here to stay. Gone of the days where you can install anything anywhere you wish without doing some workaround.

You can have your opinion, just realize that the game being on steam while also having a stand alone way of getting it effects you in no way at all since it would not require steam at all.

matux, on 28 June 2012 - 04:05 AM, said:

How about NO SCOTT!....... why should i have to use steam for a game that doesnt need it..... Why should i have to be connect to blizzard to play D3, they both shouldn't exist, hopefully the former doesn't.

I used to manage a net cafe before steam for cafes came out...... and it is a steaming load of ****

This game doesn't need steam, it has a cult following at the least and im torn between playing this and NWN at the moment.. when ever they come out that is)

No one here is saying that it should require steam. Only that it should be available through steam. Nearly every single FTP title on steam does not require steam. this game has a cult following, that is why this game would benefit from steam. Getting exposure to over 5 million concurrent gamers with virtually no advertising needed.

Steam used to be a steaming pile of ****, it's not now.

Please read the bold again, since no one seems to pay attention when it is said.

Edited by Noth, 28 June 2012 - 04:45 AM.

[Freyar]

Fire for Effect, on 28 June 2012 - 03:12 AM, said:

[DRM Argument. One Pirate Copy =/= Sale]

That's all fine and good. Care to take that off topic stuff into another thread in off topic?

Quote

Noone has hinted to the idea that steam should be the only source it is just the generell idea that an online game is ALSO available on steam that is apalling since it will generate income for one of the companies that is well hated among old school gamers.

Please don't speak for me.

Quote

How do you know what steam demands be it financially or otherwise? If the demands would be fairly low EA would not have started its own online annoyance center. If you have reached a certain size you can do demand ludicrous things and these will be accepted.

EA launched Origin because EA wants to make more money as a digital publisher. They have a significant market share for retail publishing, they want to extend that into digital distribution after their dismal performance as a digital distributor with Digital River at the helm. Origin is just an attempt to re-present themselves as something new when they aren't.

Quote

I want for offline games an actual physical DVD/CD from which I can install at any time and from any place I wish. As far as I am concerned steam can consdense to warm water and seep into the ground.

This isn't an offline game.

matux, on 28 June 2012 - 04:05 AM, said:

I used to manage a net cafe before steam for cafes came out...... and it is a steaming load of ****

This game doesn't need steam, it has a cult following at the least and im torn between playing this and NWN at the moment.. when ever they come out that is)

There's a reason you're a former manager of a cafe right? I run one, and Steam is pretty much vital to our operations. Are there problems unique to a cafe? Oh sure, but it's much better than fighting with SecuROM every two months, and Origin every week.

Back before the Steam for Cafes program, it was pretty bad. When SfC moved to using certificates to verify LAN Center participation, it was also a nightmare (as those certs would expire randomly, and cause all sorts of issues), now it's fairly simple compared to what it was five years ago.

Five years ago, Steam was frustrating. It isn't that way now.

You use the term "Cult following", but I'm not quite sure it means what you think it means.

[Atavism]

Since some people here apparently still haven't gotten the message yet, let's take a look at some specific examples of F2P and MMO games already on Steam: Tribes Ascend, Global Agenda, EVE Online, Fallen Earth, Everquest 2, Star Trek Online, Champions Online, D&D Online, Lord of the Rings Online, along with several others are all available there and have the option of making Steam Wallet transactions, but NOT ONE of them actually requires Steam to be installed on your system at all if you don't want it there. They all have the option of getting the software and making transactions directly from the developers website. No requirement to log into Steam, no Steam overlay, nothing.

Making a game available on Steam does NOT mean it has to be Steam exclusive.

matux, on 28 June 2012 - 04:05 AM, said:

This game doesn't need steam, it has a cult following at the least and im torn between playing this and NWN at the moment.. when ever they come out that is)

Yes, Mechwarrior has an amazingly dedicated following. That doesn't necessarily translate into a large following though. And an F2P titles success hinges on the size of its player base far more than it does on how "hardcore" they are.

Edited by Atavism, 28 June 2012 - 06:22 AM.

[SnowMon]

wow kids do u even have steam??? OFFLINE MODE BUTTON IS RIGHT THERE!!! but that feature pointless for an mmo so why even bring up "ofline mode"for arguement??

[Garthak]

sure, they would need a bigger player base, but steam would add that player base and then some fairly easily, Im sure. The best option is probably to wait a few months after release, so they can get as much revenue as possible, then release it on steam, to get more players. I love everything being on steam, so I'm all for it. sooner the better, but I can be paitent.

[PlanoChase]

Whatever you do just please stay away from Origin!

[rmz]

Steam is the devil. THE DEVIL I SAY! It brakes your computer and spoils food in your fridge. I'm sure it does that, I read it somewhere. Of course I have more than 100 games on Steam, never had any problems with anything, I saved space by not having 100 game boxes around the house, I love having everything in one place. I don't worry about any save games, Steam Cloud handles that. I don't worry about changing PCs, I can download anything from Steam. So maybe it's not that bad... But I know what you're going to say. It is just bad and you hate it. And adding 25m potential players can make Piranha gazillioners and the game will stall, cause y'know gazillioners don't do any work, they just float in monies...

Just release it on Steam and I will throw some of my monies at you, please. Should be enough for a cookie.

[Emetivore]

Steam is literally the number one gaming community on the internet. Every game that goes on Steam sells exponentially more copies than it did before it joined Steam. How many times have we seen PC Gamer articles that say "Game X sold 120,000 copies in 24 hours during Steam sale"? COUNTLESS developers have made 10x the lifetime income of a game, overnight, when having a sale. Hordes of gamers buy ALL of their games on Steam and never buy them elsewhere.

Saying "don't put it on Steam, it's too expensive" is like saying "Don't buy that winning lottery ticket, it costs too much". Getting on Steam would increase the size of our community tenfold. If you doubt me, Devs, why not ask ANY OTHER GAME DEVELOPER? They will surely tell you that Steam was the turning point in the sale of their game.

Also, Steam has a fantastic built-in chat/voice client. I use it for EVERY SINGLE GAME. Except, that is, for MWO, which mysteriously BLOCKS the Steam interface and chat/voice from functioning (completely freaking idiotic, nonsensical, crap decision... Whomever said this was a good idea, FIRE THEM). Your C3 thing.... Yeah... Does anyone actually use that? Last time I checked everyone was using Teamspeak because they couldn't get anything else to work with your game.

If the Devs don't get on Steam, or at least EMBRACE STEAM COMPATIBILITY, they are fools. That's all there is to it.

Edited by Emetivore, 30 July 2013 - 04:12 PM.

[Draslin Darkforge]

The servers are already maxed out (which is why hit detection is totally broken). Adding more players right now is not a good idea.

[Volomon]

90% of people on this thread have no clue what they are talking about.

Steam does not require an always on connection, there is an off line mode. You can find it directly under the file command, the same place where you log out. How does that even make any sense to complain about it's a freaking ONLINE game!

As far as I know there are 0% requirements other than to give Steam a percent of the profit of selling monetary items via Steam. Which tends to be rather generous. A game must provide something to sell this could be $80 bundles for X amount of mechs. Which doesn't even need to be purchased.

The only RATIONAL reason to not put it on steam would be the hatred of money.

It's the equivalent of saying that Sony should not sell their products in any other country besides it's own due to laws in other countries. Ok great, you don't have to follow those laws. You also don't get that multi-million dollar profit either.



There is ZERO common sense to not put this game on steam, which is born of ignorance of the service.

Putting it on steam would have ABSOLUTELY NO EFFECT, to you if you currently use the client as provided by the website. So WHY in the F do you have an opinion about it being on steam, it's like rejecting free money.

WTF!?!
Buy some common sense people.