22 replies to this topic

[Kyle Wright]

So I had made a post a while ago: http://mwomercs.com/...61#entry3617261

So I decided to play some War Thunder and try out the tanks. THEIR MAPS ARE BEYOND GORGEOUS. They have destructive terrain and elevation change throughout the maps.

Example 1:

Example 2:










One of the guys from MW:LL who created two maps responded. HE DID THEM ON HIS FREE TIME. SO WHAT GIVES
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Posted 07 August 2014 - 03:38 PM[/color]
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Kyle Wright, on 07 August 2014 - 12:21 AM, said:[/color]


Now I found this video take from inside MW: LL. How is it they were able to get these really well done maps and from what I hear they had the same if not more then we do currently using the same game engine? There is really nothing Fancy PGI, You dont have to get super elaborate with map designs. Not all battles have to fight within a city or around one. Give us non-populated terrain with random hills, mountains, sunken valleys, bodies of water, and forest. Throw in weather for effects. These super elaborate terrain features you come up with dont need to be. As a geologist canyon network would never be how it is in real life unless it was the remnant of river mouth dumping into a ancient ocean. And even then you would find hundreds of meters of sediments deposited in alluvial fans.

https://www.youtube....d&v=ce6EVhEXfAo


https://www.youtube....d&v=LebvKcWOujM







Then look at this map in this training match... Look how big it is. Notice how people cant be spotted from super far away... These guys are talking in Russian and all I understood was blah blah Fafnir ( think he said shoot the fafnir). They have some structures, but the rest is non fancy terrain really.


I dont have much to say other than - Thank you OP and some others in this thread for speaking highly of those maps. I was the original creator (Linkin Frost) of two of the maps being talked about in this thread (the ones from the first video) called Dustbowl and Ring of Fire. Ring of Fire was my first map (volcano map) which is why the texturing and everything looks pretty amateurish By the time I started Dust Bowl I'd learned of world builder tools and a lot more about lighting, etc so things look more put together. If you compare the scale of MWO maps to MW:LL it's pretty amazing - at 1:35 in the video there is a shot of mountains in the background of Dustbowl... those were in the map and you could wander (or fly) over to them!

Speaking of amateurish - I was not a member of the MW:LL dev team until the very end. I had never created maps before and just got interested in the CryEngine editor. Figured out how to put all that together over a few months. It was a super fun hobby and eventually they rolled my community created maps into the official map pack for the game.

Something to think about - I was some random guy, building them in my spare time, with zero art experience before the project and hammered them out over the span of a few months each. Given that, I'm not sure what to think about the MWO team's velocity of map creation.

So thanks again for making my day. I'd never seen that tribute video and it was incredibly nice to see someone turn my maps into map-porn
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Edited by Iron Frost, 07 August 2014 - 03:43 PM.[/color]
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[Impyrium]

The MWLL maps certainly are pretty, and I 100% agree that PGI's map development is focused on the wrong things. Didn't MWLL use lots of default assets from the CryEngine? Either way, they certainly are fantastic, and I'd love to play MWO with them.

[ImperialKnight]

I'd be happy with meh maps if they'd just fix the invisible hitboxes

[CocoaJin]

Map creation for MWO require resources from various teams of the production staff. Map production inherently puts other projects on hold and vice versa.

Art staff tasked with building Clan and Phoenix mechs weren't working on maps. With the presumed slow down in mech production and with current CW development not utilizing as much of the art and other team's resources, I believe we'll see significant improvements in map production.

Ideally the Phoenix and Clan mechs secured enough revenue will they waited to secure their licensing extension that they can focus on CW which would inherently increase the motivation for more maps in order to support it.

Granted, it would be nice if they he'd a dedicated map builder, but with this being a business, I understand why they aren't looking to duplicate staff if they feel they shouldn't...Personally I wouldn't agree, I feel they should have a dedicated map builder if their budget will allow. It's understood maps don't directly generate revenue, but the thing is, CW will always benefit from and will inevitably demand more maps as an inherent aspect of its development and expansion over the years.nnand a sttrong, well made CW should provide a healthy player and consumption base...so you'd think maps would be seen as a powerful indirect means of revenue.

So im currently not too worried about maps, I know we need me bad, but I also feel we are right on the cusp of seeing the more maps.

[ShinVector]

knightsljx, on 17 August 2014 - 04:38 PM, said:

I'd be happy with meh maps if they'd just fix the invisible hitboxes

Exact same thought dude... Freaking hell.. They had months... Couldn't they hire a part-timer to fix that scrap ?

[Edustaja]

If you can't hire more staff just subcontract the work...

[CocoaJin]

It's generally believed that hiring a part-timer/contract coder has a built 6month spool up time before you could even expect any thing resembling proficient productivity.

If PGI didn't foresee finding themselves this far behind, it would have been seen as a waste to hire someone else, especially temporarily. Of course hind-sight is 20/20, so we have the benefit of armchair quarter backing their decisions. But trust that it's not always as easy as just snapping one's fingers and making stuff happen at the speed of impatience.

[Roland]

CocoaJin, on 17 August 2014 - 06:13 PM, said:

It's generally believed that hiring a part-timer/contract coder has a built 6month spool up time before you could even expect any thing resembling proficient productivity.

Not when they'd be doing something as standard as making Cryengine maps.
There are lots of folks who already have those skills. It's not like they're making custom rocket engines for spaceships.

[CocoaJin]

Roland, on 17 August 2014 - 06:14 PM, said:

Not when they'd be doing something as standard as making Cryengine maps.
There are lots of folks who already have those skills. It's not like they're making custom rocket engines for spaceships.

Skills isn't all that's required,though I would concede 6months might be a bit much in this instance. None the less, with Clan and Phoenix mechs out, it's all a moot point. The resources that were used up on mech production are back on maps as we speak. And as frustrating as it's been for us, we have to be careful using hind-sight to critique there project planning. As it stands, unless they knew 6months to a year ago they'd be where they are, hiring another person just for maps may very well have been seen as a poor use of the studio's budget.

We have to accept that the opportunity to have hired a dedicated map guy is like water under the bridge, it makes no sense to do it know unless they have room for it under the budget and they know resources would need to be pulled away from map making for any extended period of time in the near future.

Circumstances kicked PGI in the jimmy, but what's done is fine, they are already recovering and pushing forward.

[Undercover Brother]

I'm hoping beyond hope that they have more than a few new maps sitting in the wings, awaiting the full release of CW. Now, they SHOULD give us a couple soon, just to wet our appetites, and to prove that they ARE moving forward, but that's probably asking too much.

[CocoaJin]

Bah...don't be positive and hopeful, then poop on your own parade...it's gonna work out.

[Roland]

CocoaJin, on 17 August 2014 - 06:22 PM, said:

The resources that were used up on mech production are back on maps as we speak.

You think so, huh?

[Destructicus]

They've already been over it before, some bull about how maps cost 250k even though people have been making custom maps in games for the last two decades in less time often for free.
I mean
ahem
Reasons......resource drain...yadda...responsibility to make money
Bottom line.
You can't sell maps.

[CocoaJin]

Roland, on 17 August 2014 - 06:35 PM, said:

You think so, huh?

Yup, what other releases are planned for the next 3months? The big art projects are out in the Clan and Phoenix mechs, unless they have a big push for cockpit junk and Hero/Champion mechs, there is nothing left to use the art guys for...the CW interface looks more or less done so I'm sure they will be moving back in forth working on it and maps as appropriate.

The other teams can bounce back and forth between there contributions to maps once they are needed and other projects they are working on.

[Roland]

CocoaJin, on 17 August 2014 - 06:43 PM, said:

Yup, what other releases are planned for the next 3months? The big art projects are out in the Clan and Phoenix mechs, unless they have a big push for cockpit junk and Hero/Champion mechs, there is nothing left to use the art guys for...the CW interface looks more or less done so I'm sure they will be moving back in forth working on it and maps as appropriate.

The other teams can bounce back and forth between there contributions to maps once they are needed and other projects they are working on.

They are going to keep making new mechs to sell for MC.

[Kyle Wright]

I am calling it now Turkey Day will bring 1st new map and Xmas will be the 2nd... place your bets

Roland, on 17 August 2014 - 08:07 PM, said:

They are going to keep making new mechs to sell for MC.

New hero mech Tuesday for the Vindicator...

[Kyle Wright]

CocoaJin, on 17 August 2014 - 04:59 PM, said:

Map creation for MWO require resources from various teams of the production staff. Map production inherently puts other projects on hold and vice versa.

Art staff tasked with building Clan and Phoenix mechs weren't working on maps. With the presumed slow down in mech production and with current CW development not utilizing as much of the art and other team's resources, I believe we'll see significant improvements in map production.

Ideally the Phoenix and Clan mechs secured enough revenue will they waited to secure their licensing extension that they can focus on CW which would inherently increase the motivation for more maps in order to support it.

Granted, it would be nice if they he'd a dedicated map builder, but with this being a business, I understand why they aren't looking to duplicate staff if they feel they shouldn't...Personally I wouldn't agree, I feel they should have a dedicated map builder if their budget will allow. It's understood maps don't directly generate revenue, but the thing is, CW will always benefit from and will inevitably demand more maps as an inherent aspect of its development and expansion over the years.nnand a sttrong, well made CW should provide a healthy player and consumption base...so you'd think maps would be seen as a powerful indirect means of revenue.

So im currently not too worried about maps, I know we need me bad, but I also feel we are right on the cusp of seeing the more maps.

the biggest thing about maps is they indirectly effect revenue. If we had enough maps to influence game play in the mindset that hey my mech is not suited to every map I won i should buy more. Combine that with CW and make it so that the attackers and defenders of a planet have limited mechs to pull from say 3 mechs for defender and 2 mechs for an attacker. If you know type of environment you are fighting you can load your dropship or Mech hanger with the mechs best suited for your environment. Combine that also with bigger maps in which bringing your fat assault mech would be detrimental to the team.

Id gladly settle for the maps in MW:LL because they are simple terrain concepts. You dont need to be fancy with nature in order to make it a amazing battlefield just need the square miles to allow the battlefield to move fluidly.

[Haitchpeasauce]

One memorable MW:LL map was Inferno. From what I heard, elements of this map was brought into MW:O's Terra Therma.

In Inferno, the sky is thick with smoke, lava spews into the sky, cinders and ash rain down, a volcano dominates the landscape. If you don't watch where you're going, you can fall into a lava pit with no way to escape. These things made the map really immersive and engaging. It didn't matter if the map wasn't a tactical masterpiece or 100% balanced. It was just so much fun to BE there. Capturing bases in an ongoing battle just added to this sense of immersion.

Maps like that please.

[Kyle Wright]

They dont get it, maps dont have to be extreme and complex. 85% of Mech battles took place in bum freak Egypt.

[CocoaJin]

Kyle Wright, on 17 August 2014 - 10:33 PM, said:

They dont get it, maps dont have to be extreme and complex. 85% of Mech battles took place in bum freak Egypt.

Lol!

Yeah, I'd say MWO maps are generally better put together, but they feel so much smaller. I'd also agree that not all the maps have to be so "epic"...no need for every map to be awe inspiring, monument to the designer's ego(s)...just put out maps that do a good job of conveying the variety in environments with waging war across dozens, if not hundreds of planets and their varied ecosystems and moons.

Edited by CocoaJin, 17 August 2014 - 10:52 PM.