58 replies to this topic

[Ph30nix]

or close enough. I so hate this crappy tourney point system..... its oh so fun when im playing a match and actually trying to work with my team only too see some players only aiming to kill when they see a mech that someone is about to kill, otherwise they are just busy spreading around as much damage as possible.

Then if an enemy or two dies that they didn't tag they just suicide and leave......

When will PGI listen and stop using that pathetic POS scoring formula, use the damn end of round score you already have or make your current formula actually promote good play.

make a seperate formula for each weight class, one that promotes the "expected" playstyle of those types of mechs (or at least close enough)

[CDLord HHGD]

This is why I don't participate in these... Oh, I got my free mechbay for sure. But to vie for a spot on the epeen list, meh....

[Ph30nix]

cdlord, on 16 August 2014 - 12:42 PM, said:

This is why I don't participate in these... Oh, I got my free mechbay for sure. But to vie for a spot on the epeen list, meh....

i used to seriously try and i would usually be in the top 5 (was a light pilot exclusively back then) until i stopped for the night, then the people who never walked away from their computers would keep going until they achieved their 10 perfect matches.

Im sorry my idea of a decent tournament isn't one that should reward someone for playing nonstop until they achieve 10 perfect condition matches.

[SkyCake]

Ph30nix, on 16 August 2014 - 12:55 PM, said:

i used to seriously try and i would usually be in the top 5 (was a light pilot exclusively back then) until i stopped for the night, then the people who never walked away from their computers would keep going until they achieved their 10 perfect matches.

Im sorry my idea of a decent tournament isn't one that should reward someone for playing nonstop until they achieve 10 perfect condition matches.

ties go to fewest matches.... if your matches were actually good, you wouldnt loose your place

[Ph30nix]

SkyCake, on 16 August 2014 - 01:07 PM, said:

ties go to fewest matches.... if your matches were actually good, you wouldnt loose your place

when in a match Kills account for the most possible points (240) the person who has the most games with 12 kills will more then likely be the winner.
you would need to score an additional 300 points of damage to counteract getting one less kill per match then someone else.
you need about 300 damage to counter the points of a kill, or an assist +150 damage Even so that only counters the kills you then still have to score at least as much damage as they did. so say you get 12 assists, while they got 12 kills and 1200 damage to match them in that round you would need to score 3000 damage just to TIE.
It is insanely unlikely without a PERFECT situation, help from friends or kill stealing to achieve that let alone achieve it 10 times over the course of a weekend.
Again i'm not saying it cant happen that's why some of the winners end up playing 100's of matches over the course of a tourney i'm just saying the scoring system promotes the WORST play styles possible and rewards it.
I mean seriously if someone gets 12 kills in a round then their team either wasn't doing ANYTHING but being meat shields, kill stealing was involved or you struck the MWO lotto.
If someone is getting over 1200 damage then they are not aiming to kill and are trying to fluff their damage.

oh and right now top lights are probably avg 6-7 kills per match for their 10 and top assault is probably 9-10 kills per match for their 10.

Edited by Ph30nix, 16 August 2014 - 01:39 PM.

[Wintersdark]

SkyCake, on 16 August 2014 - 01:07 PM, said:

ties go to fewest matches.... if your matches were actually good, you wouldnt loose your place

What? This isn't the case at all. Ties go to fewest matches, but that's only the case for exact ties. Tie as in total points are equal. This isn't very common at all, really, and if you ARE tied and lower ranked, you just play more until you get even one more point than your lowest scoring match and bam! No longer tied, now ranked ahead.

Still remains, if you want to really compete, you need to be able to play a lot, particularly in the last day when you've got existing scores to beat.

[Wintersdark]

Ph30nix, on 16 August 2014 - 01:34 PM, said:

Again i'm not saying it cant happen that's why some of the winners end up playing 100's of matches over the course of a tourney i'm just saying the scoring system promotes the WORST play styles possible and rewards it.
I mean seriously if someone gets 12 kills in a round then their team either wasn't doing ANYTHING but being meat shields, kill stealing was involved or you struck the MWO lotto.
If someone is getting over 1200 damage then they are not aiming to kill and are trying to fluff their damage.

This. These tournaments encourage terrible play, with people in a frantic rush to get more damage and more kills - both actions that when pursued to extremes are harmful to your chances for victory.

Absolutely ridiculous levels of friendly fire. People dropping threats for easy kills. For example, that disarmed Atlas isn't going anywhere, but the Timberwolf hammering on your buddy needs killing a lot more.

[Carl Avery]

When I participated in one of the older solo "tournaments," I kept running into one of the top-scorers (ended up placing first in one of the four weight classes). You know what he did? He suicide charged with his pro build, every match. He just charged straight at the enemy alone. He usually got a kill or two before dying (usually took about three minutes) -- these matches weren't good enough to count, but he'd simply disconnect after dying, pick his second Victor, and jump right into another match.

Eventually, he'd get lucky (and his ELO lowered enough) and would come up against a group of total noobers who didn't know how to play at all, or were all running Catapults & Hunchbacks or whatever, and his one-man charge in his best-mech-best-build would gain him 8 kills & 900 dmg. It was these total mismatches which counted towards his "best matches," and by playing full-time over the weekend, he got enough of them to get into first place.

Meanwhile, other players who were piloting in a more sane, team-oriented fashion would score more consistently "good" and so would not place as high (because the formula requires that you get a few "great" matches, not a bunch of "good"). The formula rewards doing poorly most of the time, so that you can get an exceptionally good score once in a while, and playing long enough that you get enough of the latter type of games. It does not reward consistently playing well, and -- in fact -- ensures that those who do will place lower than the former type of player.

This is why I no longer participate in these. It doesn't reward a good mechwarrior for fighting well -- it rewards the player who works the system the most, who is most proficient at exploiting the broken mechanics & scoring systems. Call it sour grapes if you will, but I see nothing good in this competition.

Edited by Carl Avery, 16 August 2014 - 01:59 PM.

[Ph30nix]

they should have the friendly fire penalty be 100% and not reduced at all.
So if you do 100 pnts of FF damage then your score will be 100 pnts less.

Edited by Ph30nix, 16 August 2014 - 01:59 PM.

[Deathlike]

Welcome to the solo tournies... same as the previous solo tournies.

[Alistair Winter]

I really wish PGI would explain their rationale. Is it just easier to copy the same tournament they've done before? Did they just do it like this because they wanted to keep the game alive with some events, even though they knew people don't like this type of tournament? Or do they actually think this is the way to go? Do they not care about the feedback they've received?

I honestly don't know what the answer is. I wish they'd talk to their fans more.

In other news, Star Citizen is looking better and better every day. God damn. Have you seen their most recent videos? Or the amount of money they're making? Gives me hope.

[Ph30nix]

Alistair Winter, on 16 August 2014 - 02:16 PM, said:

I really wish PGI would explain their rationale. Is it just easier to copy the same tournament they've done before? Did they just do it like this because they wanted to keep the game alive with some events, even though they knew people don't like this type of tournament? Or do they actually think this is the way to go? Do they not care about the feedback they've received?

I honestly don't know what the answer is. I wish they'd talk to their fans more.

In other news, Star Citizen is looking better and better every day. God damn. Have you seen their most recent videos? Or the amount of money they're making? Gives me hope.

to be honest, i think the reason they dont change the formula is because THEY WANT the nonstop playing, they are using it as a data gathering weekend probably.
Problem is any data is probably useless due to the play styles.

that or because Paul thinks the formula is good and refuses to admit it isnt.

Edited by Ph30nix, 16 August 2014 - 02:23 PM.

[Deathlike]

Ph30nix, on 16 August 2014 - 02:23 PM, said:

to be honest, i think the reason they dont change the formula is because THEY WANT the nonstop playing, they are using it as a data gathering weekend probably.
Problem is any data is probably useless due to the play styles.

that or because Paul thinks the formula is good and refuses to admit it isnt.

As much as I dislike Paul, I doubt he's responsible for these tournies. However, it makes one wonder if he's understanding the metrics that are provided in these things.

The term "no clue" describes the entire situation... as to whether Paul figures it out, or whether he even digests it.

Edited by Deathlike, 16 August 2014 - 02:26 PM.

[Ph30nix]

Deathlike, on 16 August 2014 - 02:26 PM, said:

As much as I dislike Paul, I doubt he's responsible for these tournies. However, it makes one wonder if he's understanding the metrics that are provided in these things.

The term "no clue" describes the entire situation... as to whether Paul figures it out, or whether he even digests it.

ehh i was partly jumping on the blame paul bandwagon.

Not that he isn't to blame for some things but right now i cant remember the other guys name lol so paul gets to be the whippin boy.

[Almeras]

promoting non-stop play is socially irresponsible to players. Plenty of examples of players dying from this kind of thing.

Opportunity to exploit is rife (sync dropping, gaming the score system, dropping on the weak time zones etc). I know one average pilot on the score board, I remember he'd play non stop hoping he'd get 10 prefect games out of 1000's. To me that seems odd the prizes on offer don't equate to the value of time spent to achieve them.

Maybe for the next tourney their should be an opt'd in game mode (like skirmish but only for tourney players, you know so you have tourney players fighting with other tourney players) then divide the total score by number of drops or only let people have 15 matches and drop their worse 5 games.

[Sandpit]

Anyone expected different?

There's not ever been, nor (i sincerely doubt), ever will be any kind of event that doesn't cater to the "epeen" crowd for getting the most kills.

That's PGI's current "target audience"

[Aresye]

The formula for this tournament is at least better than past tournaments (no more points for living vs dying). Damage dealt actually means something now, and while a person could perfectly get all 12 kills, that's only 240 points (well, 260 technically because win). I've had a few games around 270-290, and those I only got around 4-5 kills.

Personally, I don't think win/loss should have any influence on total score. It's stupid to punish an individual player's performance and reward them less points because their team was absolutely terrible.

Edited by Aresye, 16 August 2014 - 03:17 PM.

[Lefty Lucy]

Aresye, on 16 August 2014 - 03:16 PM, said:

The formula for this tournament is at least better than past tournaments (no more points for living vs dying). Damage dealt actually means something now, and while a person could perfectly get all 12 kills, that's only 240 points (well, 260 technically because win). I've had a few games around 270-290, and those I only got around 4-5 kills.

Personally, I don't think win/loss should have any influence on total score. It's stupid to punish an individual player's performance and reward them less points because their team was absolutely terrible.

We don't need more rewards for selfish play. It's way better to give a bigger reward for a win.

[Spencley]

These sort of things just ruin the game for the duration...

[Sandpit]

Lefty Lucy, on 16 August 2014 - 03:29 PM, said:

We don't need more rewards for selfish play. It's way better to give a bigger reward for a win.

Agreed
Unfortunately PGI disagrees

Every single time they've run an event they've asked for feedback
Every single time they've run an event we've asked for something beyond "kills"
Every single time they've run an event they've based it on kills

They're too concerned with "esports/epeen" to care much for any other aspect of the game