20 replies to this topic

[Lefty Lucy]

The current problem with weapon modules is that they provide a persistent penalty for a situational bonus. Range is only a bonus if the target is far away. If the target is within range, it is no bonus at all. The penalty, extra heat, is persistent: it takes effect every time the weapon is fired, regardless of whether or not the bonus is actually effective.

A potential problem with making weapon modules too useful is that they will provide another barrier to new players being able to compete: when players who have the gigantic benefits of efficiencies, fully-customized DHS mechs, practice with weapons, map knowledge, and powerful mech modules go up against green scrubs in trial mechs, the last thing they need is another layer of buffs between them and the new players.

So, how we could make weapon modules useful without giving extra power to players who frankly don't need it, is to offset the persistent penalty with a persistent bonus.

Instead of the bonus being range, it could be accuracy:

Lasers get a burn time bonus, projectile weapons get projectile speed bonus, missiles get lock speed bonus.

It could be something else too, but I think damage would be a mistake, as the last thing this game needs is a front loaded damage buff.

[Monkey Lover]

decrease slots or decrease weight maybe

[Sprouticus]

Add an Elo modification depending upon modules equipped. A small one, but a penalty. Maybe 10-15 points.

If everyone has them, then nothing changes for a MM perspective. If you are new or poor though, you go up against slightly inferior opponents than you would otherwise.

They already do it for groups, no reason why they could not for modules.

Or certain mechs for that matter.

[Vertigo 1]

I personally like the idea of having different modules for every weapon, giving each pilot a choice of what kind of minor buff for that weapon system they'd prefer based on their build. I think that a limit of 1 module per weapon type would be a good idea, so players couldn't stack the bonuses and/or behavioral modifiers. I would agree with a tradeoff of sorts associated with certain modules if the benefit actually warranted the tradeoff, unlike the current state of range modules and the heat that comes with them.

Examples of possible Medium Laser modules:

• Medium Laser Harmonics Module: Decrease beam duration by x seconds (Something small like .1 seconds)
  
• Medium Laser Advanced Optics Module: Increase beam range by x meters (No heat penalty or it's pretty useless, as stated in the OP)
  
• Medium Laser Coolant Module: Decrease heat output by x amount at the expense of x amount of damage reduction.

Examples of possible AC/2 modules:

• A/C 2 Railgun Module: Increase speed of projectiles by x meters/second (Nothing drastic).
  
• A/C 2 Propulsion Module: Increase range of projectiles by x meters (No heat penalty or it's pretty useless, as stated in the OP).
  
• A/C 2 Cyclic-Rate Module: Increase rate of fire by x amount at the expense of decreasing the range by x meters.

Examples of possible Machine Gun modules:

• MG Explosive Slugs Module: Increase critical chance by x amount at the expense of reducing range by x meters.
  
• MG Extender Module: Increase range of projectiles by x meters.
  
• MG Hailstorm Module: Increase rate of fire by x amount at the expense of increasing the cone of fire by x amount

These are just some ideas that may or may not suck, but the point is that there are a variety of possibilities here and in my opinion, this entire side of customization is currently going to waste. I'm not suggesting that the "Explosive Slugs Module" buffs critical chance ridiculously like by 50% or something' it can be minor but at least somewhat beneficial (Say, 5-10% at the expense of a comparable range reduction to compensate). If there has to be a tradeoff, make the benefit something that is worthwhile.

If better (and more) modules were implemented that provided a minor benefit or specialization for the particular weapon system, it could potentially give each pilot their own slight flavor of a certain weapon to choose from based on their build, without giving any major advantages over those who may not be using a weapon module.

TL;DR - Do one or all of the following to make Modules better/worth using:

• Make the modules entirely beneficial with no tradeoff (but only a slight benefit).
  
• Make them slightly change the way the weapon behaves instead of straight up making it better, so the pilot can select 1 of a few different behavioral modifiers to specialize their build a bit more.
  
• If a tradeoff must exist, make it worth it or based on a specialized benefit that makes sense.

Edited by Vertigo 1, 18 August 2014 - 10:10 AM.

[Malleus011]

I'd much rather be able to buy weapons with quirks based on manufacturer; like my Diverse Optics Medium Lasers have .1 second shorter beam duration, and my Donal PPC's have 10% faster shot speed. The Module system has no Battletech fluff or soul.

[Noesis]

PGI have said they are thinking about adding further different qualities into the mix in the future.

Balance as has been pointed out with penalty and buff with weapon modules and thus "specialising" the effect of the weapon then helpful to not widen the gap between the haves and have nots or newer players.

[Khobai]

the weapon modules should add new abilities to the weapons instead of just adding better stats.

[Vertigo 1]

Malleus011, on 18 August 2014 - 09:31 AM, said:

I'd much rather be able to buy weapons with quirks based on manufacturer; like my Diverse Optics Medium Lasers have .1 second shorter beam duration, and my Donal PPC's have 10% faster shot speed. The Module system has no Battletech fluff or soul.

I would love it if they implemented different weapons to be available to purchase with varying stats or traits based on their manufacturer.

Edited by Vertigo 1, 18 August 2014 - 10:05 AM.

[Koniving]

Vertigo 1, on 18 August 2014 - 08:46 AM, said:

Examples of possible Machine Gun modules:

• MG Explosive Slugs Module: Increase critical chance by x amount at the expense of reducing range by x meters.
  
• MG Extender Module: Increase range of projectiles by x meters.
  
• MG Hailstorm Module: Increase rate of fire by x amount at the expense of increasing the cone of fire by x amount

Finally, a useful reason for a Locust to have 3, count them, Three Weapons Module Slots!

Stack all 3.
Locust-ception!
(Inception bwong).

[xeromynd]

They should all have one aspect that it buffs and one aspect that it hurts. (But ALL current weapon modules need their effects increased) This would give us a lot of customization.

Ex: Laser Damage Increase at the cost of longer burn time
AC Rate of Fire increased at the cost of reduced range
LRM speed increased at the cost of reduced damage
Laser Burn time reduced at the cost of reduced range

[Alistair Winter]

Alistair Winter, on 30 July 2014 - 05:38 AM, said:

I think this is how weapon modules need to work. Forget one module for every weapon.

Make three modules for each category of weapon. Lasers, ballistic weapons, SRMs, LRMs, PPCs.

For example, you would have 3 laser modules. Note: I'm pulling numbers out of thin air here, just as an example.

• All lasers get 10% more damage, 20% less range
  
• All lasers get 15% less heat, 10% less damage.
  
• All lasers get 20% more range, 15% more heat.

This would actually force players to choose a role (brawler, sniper, striker, etc) and stick to it. Two people with the same build could have different modules, leading to different roles and playstyles.





EDIT: You could do three modules for every weapon in the game, of course. But there needs to be a trinity if there's going to be any kind of role warfare going on. Right now, it's a binary situation, either you use the module or you don't. Most people don't. If they buff the modules a bit, most people will. That's not role warfare.

This guy speaks the truth.

[xeromynd]

Alistair Winter, on 18 August 2014 - 10:31 AM, said:

This guy speaks the truth.

Laser variables (+ and -'s) can also have;
-Variable Burn Time
-Damage vs. Time scale (might be too much to code, but let's say you've chosen the increased damage module, a drawback could be that the majority of laser damage is dealt toward the end of the beam duration. Could be called laser overcharge or laser burst.

Example (as a drawback)
If Laser X lasts 5 seconds and does 10 damage, the drawback would be that it does 1 damage for the first 4 seconds, and 6 damage on the last second.

Example (as a plus)
If Laser X lasts 5 seconds and does 10 damage, the buff would be that it deals 6 damage on the FIRST second of firing and only 1 damage for the 4 remaining seconds.

[Alistair Winter]

xeromynd, on 18 August 2014 - 10:59 AM, said:

Laser variables (+ and -'s) can also have;
-Variable Burn Time
-Damage vs. Time scale (might be too much to code, but let's say you've chosen the increased damage module, a drawback could be that the majority of laser damage is dealt toward the end of the beam duration. Could be called laser overcharge or laser burst.

Yes! I like it! Especially the first bit

[Kassatsu]

Vertigo 1, on 18 August 2014 - 08:46 AM, said:

A/C 2 Railgun Module: Increase speed of projectiles by x meters/second (Nothing drastic).
A/C 2 Propulsion Module: Increase range of projectiles by x meters (No heat penalty or it's pretty useless, as stated in the OP).
A/C 2 Cyclic-Rate Module: Increase rate of fire by x amount at the expense of decreasing the range by x meters.

I think you just broke physics. Gauss rifles are the closest things to railguns, AC2s are basically rapid-fire cannons with ballistic shells.



Just for the AC2, they could do:
Rifling upgrade to increase accuracy (because it's not 100% pinpoint already, right?) and decrease bullet drop.

Extra propellant for better range and projectile speed at the cost of extra damage falloff past the max range (uh, the flight is less stable or the shell is damaged mid-flight? I don't know)

Armor piercing to give it a very small chance of ignoring armor and damaging internals directly (I'd say 5% chance max)

EDIT: Though that cyclic rate one is a good idea. I'd swap out any of my ideas for it. Too bad we'd be right back to where it was a while back with 2 AC2s triggering ghost heat.

Edited by Kassatsu, 18 August 2014 - 11:11 AM.

[Prezimonto]

Malleus011, on 18 August 2014 - 09:31 AM, said:

I'd much rather be able to buy weapons with quirks based on manufacturer; like my Diverse Optics Medium Lasers have .1 second shorter beam duration, and my Donal PPC's have 10% faster shot speed. The Module system has no Battletech fluff or soul.

This guy gets it.

[Vertigo 1]

Kassatsu, on 18 August 2014 - 11:08 AM, said:

I think you just broke physics. Gauss rifles are the closest things to railguns, AC2s are basically rapid-fire cannons with ballistic shells.

The proposed effects were mainly what I was suggesting, the names I kind of assumed probably wouldn't be accurate to the lore/don't make sense, but I was just giving them an example name to sound at least somewhat relevant to the buff, heh.

[VanillaG]

Malleus011, on 18 August 2014 - 09:31 AM, said:

I'd much rather be able to buy weapons with quirks based on manufacturer; like my Diverse Optics Medium Lasers have .1 second shorter beam duration, and my Donal PPC's have 10% faster shot speed. The Module system has no Battletech fluff or soul.

Just think as the modules as the upgrades provided by each manufacture. You could name the .1 shorter duration module the "Diverse Optics MLaser Optimization Module". This way you can try out the various mods without having a huge amount of inventory to deal with.

I have always thought of modules are as the equivalent to overclocking something. You can mess with one stat but to you for every stat you change there might be another stat that suffers. So maybe at a the lower levels you only get buffs but at mid and high levels the buffs you start encounter offsetting stats.

[xeromynd]

Here's a side-question: (sparked by the post above ^^)

Why don't they include any manufacturer names in weapon descriptions?
ex. Why are our AC2s just 'generic' AC2s.

All in all, it's a bit of added text that would add immersion to the game.

[MischiefSC]

The truly stupid and worthless thing about an insignificant range boost is what it actually does.

You get a FRACTION OF A POINT of extra damage over what you would have had on targets who were beyond your optimal range. None of it is even a points worth of range increase - it's all a fraction, as in like .2 or even less, of extra damage when shooting at someone beyond optimal range. In return for this steaming load of worthless you get to pay extra heat on every shot at any range with that weapon. It is actually not just worthless but a self-inflicted penalty for which you pay a ton of XP and millions of cbills. You may as well buy 1 Airstrike with MC and 1 Arty with cbills and drop both on yourself every match to start with - it's every bit as useful.

Only exceptions are narc, mg and AMS modules.

Everything else isn't just bad it's self-gimping bad.

[AssaultPig]

My 'solution' to weapon modules would be this: create 3 or more weapon modules per weapon type and make them mutually exclusive. By way of example, there might be three modules for each laser type:

-Added range
-Reduced cooldown
-Reduced burn time

Each module is a straight buff, but the system still creates tradeoffs because pilots must choose which to take. It also improves the system from a time/cbill sink standpoint, as players would always wish to take at least one weapon module rather than just leaving the slots empty.