33 replies to this topic

[MauttyKoray]

Ok, serious time. The speed was halved to combat the PPC/Gauss boats. However, I believe PGI overdid it personally and its no longer an effective long range weapon (hitting at the full damage limit is like lobbing an AC round). My personal is opinion that a ~200m-300m/sec increase to the PPC's projectile will bring it back to a sweet spot for its intended purpose while still gimping the super-long range combat it was being used for.

Edited by MauttyKoray, 18 August 2014 - 10:12 PM.

[LordKnightFandragon]

I agree, it went 5 steps to far in the speed nerf.

1500 down to like 1100 or 1200 woulda been a better place to start. But 1500 to 850 and 950...the things coulda be caught mid flight if your mech had a glove on...

[Wolfways]

LRM's - a million countermeasures.
Gauss Rifle - Charge mechanic.
ER/PPC - projectile speed reduced.
cERLL - increased burn time.

Anyone would think that PGI didn't want any long ranged fighting in their game...

[Lulz Kev]

PPC's are laughable right now outside of close / mid range (400~)

I'm quite frequently shooting enemy mechs with my gauss from 600+ getting a good hit and still having enough time to avoid PPCs.

If you get hit from a long range PPC and see it coming your a moron.

[Carrie Harder]

[Mcgral18]

Wolfways, on 18 August 2014 - 10:17 PM, said:

LRM's - a million countermeasures.
Gauss Rifle - Charge mechanic.
ER/PPC - projectile speed reduced.
cERLL - increased burn time.

Anyone would think that PGI didn't want any long ranged fighting in their game...

If you ignore the heat nerfs to the short range weapons and the heat buffs to the long range weapons, sure.

[Wolfways]

Mcgral18, on 18 August 2014 - 10:31 PM, said:

If you ignore the heat nerfs to the short range weapons and the heat buffs to the long range weapons, sure.

I haven't noticed any tbh.

[Monkey Lover]

Russ said he doesn't want it to be a long range sniper weapon he said leave that to the ac2 and gauss.. So there is your answer right there.

Just stop using it like half the other weapons. What I did.

Edited by Monkey Lover, 18 August 2014 - 10:39 PM.

[MischiefSC]

Finding it just perfect.

I run ERPPCs on some TW builds, I hit just fine.

I run a 3xPPC 1xGauss Banshee 'LOL WUT ARMOR' build and I wreck face with it.

Want a high-speed long range weapon? Get a Gauss or an ERLL.

At 400-500 meters ppcs are awesome. They just no longer trump Gauss and ERLL as long range weapon of choice. ECM disruption, PPFLD, solid range. They have plenty of advantages. They don't also need to be the fastest PPFLD weapon as well. Or even 2nd fastest.

They should fit in with AC10s - which they do.

[MauttyKoray]

My biggest concern with this is because of the upcoming Vindicator release. Without the PPC's original speed, the Vindicator is heavily gimped as that is its main armament with only 2 support lasers. Now, I understand that builds will be changed and many will not keep the PPC (especially if they trip up on the PPC heat related quirks to compensate for the cooling mechanic) because of the projectile speed reduction being ineffective in comparison to a Large Laser or other long range weaponry.

MischiefSC, on 18 August 2014 - 10:41 PM, said:

At 400-500 meters ppcs are awesome. They just no longer trump Gauss and ERLL as long range weapon of choice. ECM disruption, PPFLD, solid range. They have plenty of advantages. They don't also need to be the fastest PPFLD weapon as well. Or even 2nd fastest.

At half the original speed the PPC's place of a long range weapon has been absolutely destroyed. It has been turned into a mid-brawl range weapon that is now outgunned by everything in my opinion. There is no longer a reason to take it over (ER)LL for that exact reason.

As I stated originally, it was overshadowing the Gauss and LL quite a bit, but the halving of its speed was very drastic and should have been tested at various speeds instead of just lopping it immediately in half. To be fair their 'internal' play testing doesn't impress me very much with the results of a few of the 'balances' we've had on weapons lately (PPC speed, CERLL duration, etc).

Edited by MauttyKoray, 18 August 2014 - 10:50 PM.

[Mcgral18]

Wolfways, on 18 August 2014 - 10:36 PM, said:

I haven't noticed any tbh.

isSL 2 heat, should* be 1

isML 4 heat, should be 3

isMPL 4.6 heat, should be 4

cMPL, should be 4 heat, is 5.5


isLL, is 7 heat, should be 8

isERLL is 8.5 heat, should be 12

cERLL is 9 heat, should be 12


*Should according to their TT heat.
As you can see...most short range lasers are hurting in the heat department, some more than others. ERLLs are very cool running.

[Wolfways]

Mcgral18, on 18 August 2014 - 10:49 PM, said:

isSL 2 heat, should* be 1

isML 4 heat, should be 3

isMPL 4.6 heat, should be 4

cMPL, should be 4 heat, is 5.5


isLL, is 7 heat, should be 8

isERLL is 8.5 heat, should be 12

cERLL is 9 heat, should be 12


*Should according to their TT heat.
As you can see...most short range lasers are hurting in the heat department, some more than others. ERLLs are very cool running.

Heh, never even noticed
Yeah they should fix that asap.

[CocoaJin]

All this nerfing could have been avoided with limited weapon convergence and dispersion. Then force guts to have to commit to a big, heavy, top grade Targeting Computer to even have a chance at reliable sniping.

Edited by CocoaJin, 19 August 2014 - 08:46 AM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Honestly Im ok with them making it a mid range weapon and making more inline with the AC10 (it has a buddy to sync with now), but since it isn't a long range weapon anymore, it needs that minimum range removed.

As for the ERPPC, imo it needs to be bumped up more than 100 m/s over the standard PPC, that heat isn't worth the range if you can't reliably hit past the standard PPCs effective range.

[Aresye]

Wolfways, on 18 August 2014 - 10:17 PM, said:

LRM's - a million countermeasures.
Gauss Rifle - Charge mechanic.
ER/PPC - projectile speed reduced.
cERLL - increased burn time.

Anyone would think that PGI didn't want any long ranged fighting in their game...

Meanwhile Stormcrows are running around at 106kph with FIVE SRM-6 + Artemis.

[MischiefSC]

MauttyKoray, on 18 August 2014 - 10:45 PM, said:

My biggest concern with this is because of the upcoming Vindicator release. Without the PPC's original speed, the Vindicator is heavily gimped as that is its main armament with only 2 support lasers. Now, I understand that builds will be changed and many will not keep the PPC (especially if they trip up on the PPC heat related quirks to compensate for the cooling mechanic) because of the projectile speed reduction being ineffective in comparison to a Large Laser or other long range weaponry.

At half the original speed the PPC's place of a long range weapon has been absolutely destroyed. It has been turned into a mid-brawl range weapon that is now outgunned by everything in my opinion. There is no longer a reason to take it over (ER)LL for that exact reason.

As I stated originally, it was overshadowing the Gauss and LL quite a bit, but the halving of its speed was very drastic and should have been tested at various speeds instead of just lopping it immediately in half. To be fair their 'internal' play testing doesn't impress me very much with the results of a few of the 'balances' we've had on weapons lately (PPC speed, CERLL duration, etc).

The speed is right where it should be - it got massively, massively buffed because hitreg was way off. Now hitreg is fixed so it's back to where it was.

The PPC is a perfectly fine long range weapon - one that doesn't have a charge-up mechanic or do DOT. It sits very well between Gauss and ERLL. It does what it's supposed to do how it's supposed to do it. Any faster and it's back to syncing with AC5s again - which is terribad.

[MauttyKoray]

MischiefSC, on 18 August 2014 - 11:25 PM, said:

The speed is right where it should be - it got massively, massively buffed because hitreg was way off. Now hitreg is fixed so it's back to where it was.

The PPC is a perfectly fine long range weapon - one that doesn't have a charge-up mechanic or do DOT. It sits very well between Gauss and ERLL. It does what it's supposed to do how it's supposed to do it. Any faster and it's back to syncing with AC5s again - which is terribad.

From what I've seen PPC/AC5 is the current meta and is what the PPC/Gauss users switched to. I'm not saying put it back to what it was but a ~200m/s increase may bring it back to an effective field outside of mid-range where it got stuck and overshadowed by LLs. This is noticeable to me because everyone changed from PPC boats to (C)UAC5s it seems. Or began running other things like the LL combo warhawks. Its honestly rare to even see the weapon on most builds anymore with their huge heat hit instead of LLs.

[MischiefSC]

MauttyKoray, on 18 August 2014 - 11:31 PM, said:

From what I've seen PPC/AC5 is the current meta and is what the PPC/Gauss users switched to. I'm not saying put it back to what it was but a ~200m/s increase may bring it back to an effective field outside of mid-range where it got stuck and overshadowed by LLs. This is noticeable to me because everyone changed from PPC boats to (C)UAC5s it seems. Or began running other things like the LL combo warhawks. Its honestly rare to even see the weapon on most builds anymore with their huge heat hit instead of LLs.

200m/s would put it back to pinpoint accurate at max range - which it shouldn't be.

For weapon balance it should sit around where the AC10 does. It's lighter, less space and no ammo but much higher heat than an AC10. Comparable ranges and comparable damages, but PPC disrupts ECM.

The problem with it was always that it was flat out superior than anything else, because it hit like an AC10 but way far more accurate, plus the above perks. All you had to do was manage your heat better or pack more DHS.

People use it with AC5s because AC5s are top tier ACs for most situations now and PPCs are still generally top tier energy. That anyone is taking something OTHER than PPC by choice now is an indication that the balance is right.

[FDJustin]

Quote

Twitter User[color=#959595] [/color][color=#959595]Aug 10th[/color]
[color=#959595]why would anyone even use PPC's anymore. ER-PPC is a joke, my dire wolf can dodge it now. Oh well heavy nerfs[/color]
Russ Bullock @russ_bullock [color=#959595]· [/color]Aug 10
[color=#959595]your direwolf which goes what 50kph can dodge projectiles coming almost 1 km a second? Lets keep it real.[/color]
Twitter User[color=#959595] [/color][color=#959595]Aug 10th[/color]
[color=#959595]well it's no longer a sniper weapon night as well take off the ER part. Close range of course it hits[/color]
Russ Bullock @russ_bullock [color=#959595]· [/color]Aug 10
[color=#959595]well I think your summary just now sounded perfect. Wouldn't most agree it shouldn't be a sniper weapon?[/color]
Russ Bullock @russ_bullock [color=#959595]· [/color]Aug 10

[color=#959595]leave that for AC2 and Gauss, shouldn't be a perfect up close brawler either ideally but mid mid-long?[/color]

Shamelessly stolen from the dev tracker.

So there you have it. PPC isn't a sniper weapon and dire wolves can't dodge it. (I bet they can.)

[Monkey Lover]

I dodged them all the time on alpine in my dire. Push up shoot my gauss, move back down , ppc ppc over head