522 replies to this topic

[Shredhead]

Mystere, on 20 August 2014 - 01:15 PM, said:

My greatest fan from Germany sends me more love! But, please forgive his lack of humor though.

Ei guck, da kommt der Kleine mit den Stereotypen. Niedlich.

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Ahem! You're going to have to quote me on where I specifically defended the Clans. Because in all of these IS vs. Clan threads, I've been asking for convincing proof on whether or not the Clans are OP, proof that needs to be based on a good scientific analysis. Unfortunately, it's something I have not yet seen. And so, you must mistake me for someone else (and for which I am sorely disappointed, being that you are my #1 fan from Germany). But if you give me a good scientific analysis, all will be forgiven. You can use this basic framework if you so wish:

• chassis analysis, including all variants and IS/Clan configurability
• weapons analysis, including damage, rate of fire, duration, burst vs single-shot, weight, slots, ammo, impulse
• equipment options analysis, especially those that affect speed, agility, and heat efficiency
• time and spatial-based dynamic models of how the above interact in 1 vs. 1, 1 vs. N, lance vs. star, and team vs. team encounters

For being such a brave forum warrior, you missed a lot of those. Intention or ignorance?

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While many were obviously busy playing the "contest", I was busy preparing for my next vacation, first class accommodations of course, and my fourth for this year alone, generously paid for by a real "contest" that enables me to afford such small luxuries. <Translation: Enjoy your #14 while I enjoy my fantastic drink on the beach. Ciao.>

Sure buddy. And I am an 18 year old hot girl. Want to cyber?

[Mystere]

Shredhead, on 20 August 2014 - 01:29 PM, said:

For being such a brave forum warrior, you missed a lot of those. Intention or ignorance?

I will leave you with just this:

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Real science is hard. That is why politicians and other folk just settle for pseudoscience.

Shredhead, on 20 August 2014 - 01:29 PM, said:

Sure buddy ...

It's not my fault MWO "contests" pay so little.

Edited by Mystere, 20 August 2014 - 01:48 PM.

[MischiefSC]

Everyone is saying cbill Nova. All I am seeing is mc for Nova. Do I need mre crazy pills?

[Mystere]

MischiefSC, on 20 August 2014 - 01:38 PM, said:

Everyone is saying cbill Nova. All I am seeing is mc for Nova. Do I need mre crazy pills?

No. Everyone else does ... except for me of course.

[Gyrok]

El Bandito, on 20 August 2014 - 12:53 AM, said:

I was mistaken with the Raven speed, but my point still stands. How do you outrange a Clan mech? You can't. Every energy weapon 2X or 5V can viably field, Clanners got longer version of it. The Clanner does not have to chase anything.

Bottom line is, your continued defense of 5V and 2X--which are horrible beyond doubt--are tiring and illogical. Go ahead, ask any serious Light pilots to pilot them against equally skilled Clanner in a tourney. You will be laughed off.

COVER and or TERRAIN while you are running 30+ kph faster...



People complain the TW is too fast and it is only 15-20 KPH faster than your average CTF....

I can see his point...you are clearly not seeing the forest for the trees...

[Gyrok]

Lefty Lucy, on 20 August 2014 - 07:35 AM, said:

Seriously. I hate having to spectate clan mechs that can't aim worth crap, and are never where they need to be to do well in a fight, don't lock their LRMs, fire small lasers at mechs 500 meters away, and still manage to derp their way into 2 kills with 600 damage just because of the tech advantage.

LOL...no...they die quickly...unless you are just not proficient at killing derps...which could be the case entirely...but that is not "tech advantage".

[lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol]

Mister D, on 19 August 2014 - 03:35 PM, said:

Just you wait till the Madcat is out for Cbills, game is going to be nearly Void of IS mechs.

And then the vocal minority will finally voice their opinions to un-nerf the issues that they ranted and cried about nerfing in the first place because they branded them as "Pay to Win..." even though they'll be able to get them eventually with those hard farmed c-bills as pointed out with the OP's scenario... *shakes head*

[cSand]

Shredhead, on 20 August 2014 - 01:21 PM, said:

Challenge accepted.

Now THAT almost made me spit out my coffee, lol

Guess I'll see yo tonight then

Edited by cSand, 20 August 2014 - 04:03 PM.

[Bacl]

Mcgral18, on 20 August 2014 - 12:24 PM, said:

I figure I'll dispel these lies.

cDHS are better in only one sense: 2 slots instead of 3. That's it, otherwise identical.

The reason you don't notice the heat as much on the cERLL is because of their ridiculous burn time. Heat is generated over the length of the beam, and 9 heat over 2 seconds is less heat per second than 8.5 heat over 1 second.

This allows the heatsinks to dissipate more heat than the isERLLs in comparison, but still more heat overall.

Well this is not a lie, yes the burn time is longer and everything but in the end this allow to fire more weapons at once with less heat in the end, clan mechs alpha potential damage is much greater than the IS, its less direct in therm of burn time and more chances to spread but more damage for the whole duration anyways.

[Lefty Lucy]

Gyrok, on 20 August 2014 - 01:50 PM, said:

COVER and or TERRAIN while you are running 30+ kph faster...



People complain the TW is too fast and it is only 15-20 KPH faster than your average CTF....

I can see his point...you are clearly not seeing the forest for the trees...

That's not an "only." That's a lot faster.

[El Bandito]

Gyrok, on 20 August 2014 - 01:50 PM, said:

COVER and or TERRAIN while you are running 30+ kph faster... People complain the TW is too fast and it is only 15-20 KPH faster than your average CTF.... I can see his point...you are clearly not seeing the forest for the trees...

Being mobile is not gonna cut it if you are severely undergunned and has lower range weapons. 5V and 2X are severely undergunned compared to Clan Lights and Clan energy weapons have far longer range.

T-Wolf is not undergunned yet is more mobile than the Orion.

You are the one who is not seeing things clearly.

Edited by El Bandito, 21 August 2014 - 12:26 AM.

[Zolaz]

Lefty Lucy, on 19 August 2014 - 03:55 PM, said:

There are no Clan Warriors in this game. There are Clan Mechs, but that's it.

Were you born in a trash can? Did you go to a military academy at age 6? Do you compare to Micheal Jordan/ Payton Manning/ Lionel Messi when you pilot your mech? Have you see your friends die in combat? Are you a racist?

You probably arent a Clan Warrior. Go back to Treasure Island, Clam Warrior. Do you know what would happen if you ran into a real Clan Warrior?

[MischiefSC]

Clan warriors are sociopathic fascist slavers with NPD.

[HlynkaCG]

El Bandito, on 20 August 2014 - 05:26 PM, said:

Being mobile is not gonna cut it if you are severely undergunned and has lower range weapons. 5V and 2-X are severely undergunned and Clan energy weapons have far longer range.

T-Wolf is not undergunned yet is more mobile than the Orion.

All heavies are under-gunned compared to a mad cat. But that's not what this is about. You argued that even the lowest tier Clan mechs are vastly superior to their Inner Sphere counterparts, myself and others disagreed.

The fact that you can't keep your own arguments straight is not helping your case.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

oh god... people have bought new mechs for c-bills...

Oh god they're ranking up their pilot skills.

OH GOD THEY'RE EVERYWHERE!!!!

IT'S IN MY RACCOON WOUNDS!

[Hades Trooper]

Kay Wolf, on 19 August 2014 - 03:45 PM, said:

No, the Clan 'Mechs are stronger, faster, shoot further, and do it cooler. It's not just the new shiny, for PUG play it's here to stay. Now, Community Warfare, that has to be a different animal, hence all of the recent Clan vs. IS testing for 10 v 12. If it's not... (shrug)

Lies Lies Lies, here's not the place to fight about it and i'm not going to give away why clan mechs are not better, i want o keep my ways to kill clan mechs to myself.

All i can say is that clan mechs do some things better and the are better in some ways. The trick is to work out what the IS are better at and you can eat clan mechs up all day.

So think outside the box and how the dynamics work in game not just on paper.

[Hades Trooper]

Bacl, on 20 August 2014 - 04:20 PM, said:

Well this is not a lie, yes the burn time is longer and everything but in the end this allow to fire more weapons at once with less heat in the end, clan mechs alpha potential damage is much greater than the IS, its less direct in therm of burn time and more chances to spread but more damage for the whole duration anyways.

So if you have 2 pilots of same skill giving on brief moments to exchange fire, the IS weapons now are equal if not better than clan.

sure we can rapid fire an ac/20 but then where also exposing ourselves for longer, damage is spread out unless of course your dumb and stand still or overheat, but how is your lack of skills my problem?

2 equal skilled players, the IS mechs if used correctly win, an before you cry, why can an IS ERLL do more damage in 1 second than a clan ERLL can? Thus the struggle is can the clanner keep steady beam while taking incoming fire and keep the IS as distance, or but wait no need, all the IS meta playuers will just whinge, i can still use my tactics of 2 years now, i can't think for myself and come up for a way to defeat the enemy when all i need to do is whinge enough and PGI will save me.

IS won't save Terra from being taken over, PGI will save you.

[Budor]

IS is better at dying when losing 1 ST or at fielding less weapons or at being slower. Combinations of those 3 are not a rarity.

I also enjoy having to buy, grind and sell some of those "pants on head ********" IS variants just to get my module slot.

Ill just quote myself:

THE ONLY THING THAT IS HOLDING CLANS BACK...

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Posted 29 June 2014 - 02:33 PM
...are poptarts. The inner sphere tragicomedy only on PGI pay tv this summer.

Will certainly watch.

The builds that dominated this game for the past year are the only ones that can somehow reliably cope with the clan advantages.

Edited by Budor, 21 August 2014 - 01:35 AM.

[Widowmaker1981]

NonCedo, on 19 August 2014 - 08:08 PM, said:

What was the win ration for clan verse IS? It was around 90% or so, listen, once again, I know you pro clan don't want to attribute that win to equipment. But gee, I guess if our IS piloting skills are so feeble, we might need to even things out somehow, just so it stays fun. Maybe 2 to 1 in our favor might be fair once cw goes live. What do you say?

In fairness, at least in the games i played while that was going on - the IS pilots in many cases were simply NOT TRYING. i saw multiple disconnects on the IS sides, and multiple mechs charging in to suicide early - they decided they were going to lose, and didnt try or quit. a LOT. that badly skewed the results.. in one game where the IS team DID try, (and also in fairness on a map that played to their strengths, river city) they rushed in to close range brawl.. and won 12-3 or 4.

basically - flawed test is flawed. Clan are/were a little stronger, but not 90% win ratio stronger, 60-65% maybe.

A more.. suspicious person might even think some IS pilots saw what testing was going on (it was pretty obvious) and decided to throw games as much as possible, in order to get 'OP Clans' nerfed into the ground

Edited by Widowmaker1981, 21 August 2014 - 01:47 AM.

[zortesh]

Budor, on 21 August 2014 - 01:27 AM, said:

IS is better at dying when losing 1 ST or at fielding less weapons or at being slower. Combinations of those 3 are not a rarity.

I also enjoy having to buy, grind and sell some of those "pants on head ********" IS variants just to get my module slot.

My stance from June still stands:

Mostly true...

Is does have advantages, ppfld is the main advantage, only ppfld weapons clams have is guassrifles.
Clan has better dps, but is vastly easyier to torso twist against.

Clan mechs have heat spike higher and faster, but they also cool down faster.

Clan lrms cost less tonnage, have a effective min range of 100 meters instead of 180, and have a shallower arc which is better for fighting in underground areas, or using them as directfire weapons, but they are weaker vs ams and IS lrm have a higher arc and hit in one solid blob, which makes them better at firing over cover or pure indirect fire boats.

Clan srms vs is srms is basically equal, thou clans weigh slightly less and IS does marginally more damage.

Lasers, clan wins here hands down due to range and extra damage, thou IS lasers do have shorter burn times and less heat.

Given two unskilled pilots id always bet on the clanmech, given 2 skilled pilots I'd have to think about it.

There is some unbalanced stuff, like a direwolf is so superior to an atlas its not even funny..

I wish they'd actully left the jumpsniper is meta alone when clans came out, its suspicious timing... i think a old meta 3d would easily equal a timberwolf, not in damage but in practical ability to kill or cripple mechs quickly.
Changeable engines is the real advantage is have, gives them the ability to really choose there loadout.

narcs... clan narc is just so superior that theres no comparison.