17 replies to this topic

[RedHorseman]

Just wondering if moving out of LOS will hide you from radar. I can't recall this being mentioned. It would definitely make scouts more important as they could relay their radar info back to team mates/ commander.

[Striker1980]

I must confess I'm curious about this one too, also what effect will Beagle active probes, ECM, C3 masters and slaves have on this.

It always kind of irked me that a 'mech could be detected through anything in previous Mechwarrior games, though I'm sure this was more of a technical limitation than anything else, (I'd imagine LOS can be tough to compute).

-Striker

[Davers]

Some of the videos clearly show scouts relaying targetting information back to their teammates.

[Bolo Warden]

See if the link will answer your questions.

http://mwomercs.com/...mation-warfare/

[Redshift2k5]

Traditionally you would still get a radar signature(out to a certain range) even without LOS, although you cannot use that information to fire semi-guided munitions and you can't tell what mech it is you are detecting nor it's damage or loadout.

Enemies running in passive radar become far more difficult to detect with radar alone until they are pretty much on top of you.

GECM (guardian electronic countermeasures) will make you more difficult to pick up on radar, while BAP(Beagle Active Probe) gives the detector more range and detection capabilities. The UAV and Sattellite Sweep mentioned in Dev Blog 4 would presumably give you additional detection abilities beyond that provided by a BAP, and some of the Scout skills mentioned would give you broader radar detection and other detection modifications.

http://mwomercs.com/...e-warfare-cont/

Davers, on 21 May 2012 - 09:58 AM, said:

Some of the videos clearly show scouts relaying targetting information back to their teammates.

It was mentioned that this information relay would later become dependent on a module (and is very similar to how a C3 acts, but C3 systems are too far ahead in the timeline)

[William Petersen]

Redshift2k5, on 21 May 2012 - 10:08 AM, said:

It was mentioned that this information relay would later become dependent on a module (and is very similar to how a C3 acts, but C3 systems are too far ahead in the timeline)

Eh. C3 was about range penalty reduction, not just location relay.

C3 would be more like being able to 'zoom' on the target as if you were in a closer Mech's cockpit.

[Banditman]

I'm pretty sure that breaking LOS doesn't instantly remove them from your radar, but I do recall a very clear statement to the effect that "Targeting information decays rapidly when you don't have LOSD"

[Skylarr]

All Mech have some of the following sensors. Some Mechs even have them all:

Radar
Magnometer
Night Vision
Seismic
Thermal


In game this can be translated to you radar screen.

Battle Computer/Targeting & Tracking system

The Battle Computer (BC), located in the cockpit, coordinates and monitors the overall movement and weapons fire. It is the BC that makes sure that the MechWarrior's commands have priority. The BC makes certain that weapons are pointed towards what the MechWarrior is indicating, even if that requires overriding other systems and warnings and putting an arm through the wall of a nearby building. It is the BC that does the computing for "Targeting and Tracking."
The BC is the "gateway" that filters the data from the DI computer, converting it to information that is useful for the MechWarrior so the MechWarrior does not need to interpret it. It also coordinates all of the weapons Targeting and Tracking (T&T) systems, feeding them and the MechWarrior data on internal checks that the DI computer has run. The BC also controls the Target Interlock Circuits (TIC) of the 'Mech.
BattleMech targeting and tracking systems consist more than just the BC - the system is a network of sophisticated sensors, sub-computers, and programming. Thermal imaging, light amplification, radar, laser tracking, uv tracking, and magnetic anomaly sensors are generally used as primary sensors, supplemented by seismic sensors, motion detectors, chemical analyzers, microwave, tracking, and many others, depending on what equipment a 'Mech mounts. However, MechWarriors are not overwhelmed with raw data... The BC compresses, interprets, and prioritizes the information. When the MechWarrior gets the info, it is displayed on the cockpit displays or on the neurohelmet heads-up display (HUD) in with all the various selected sensor information synthesized into a single viewing mode, with important things tagged by the computer with graphic icons onscreen.
Sensor readouts can either overlap a target or reveal an area. For example, thermal sensors display a green (cold) to white (hot) image of the battlefield. The MechWarrior can opt to display other 'Mechs with thermal imaging and leave the battlefield in true colors. Extra sensor readings can be added or subtracted from the displays as the MechWarrior wishes. Normally the battle computer will synthesize all of the various sensor inputs onto the display, although in a simplified form.
Identify Friend/Foe (IFF) is a key ability of the T&T system. It eases the burden of identifying targets for MechWarriors in battle conditions, especially in poor visibility. Friendly and enemy 'Mechs are tagged with differing graphic tokens. IFF broadcast beacons are used by the BattleMechs targeting and tracking system to avoid accidental missile fire at a friendly 'Mech, though the system can be manually overridden.
Battlemech sensory processors and programming stand out for their ability to recognize other units and classify them by type and as friend or foe. Virtually all T&T suites can tell what type of unit is being detected, and can even make educated guesses at what variant that unit is. The system is surprisingly intuitive and at times it will present an interesting "guess." For example, the famous Inner Sphere naming of the Clan Timber Wolf OmniMech. The first Inner Sphere BattleMech to encounter one saw it as a cross between two designs it already knew - the Marauder and Catapult designs, thus the name "Mad Cat" was born.
BattleMechs can also share some sensor data. Specialized C3, C3i, and other hardware takes this to new heights, but all BattleMechs can at the least handle basic sensory data from friendly 'Mechs in order to pinpoint enemy positions, or share more detailed information. This is usually done with a separate communications channel, and can be difficult to maintain during battle.
In a pinch, the BC can stand in for the DI computer, but this reduces the amount of information gathered and degrades the overall performance of the BattleMech to about 60% of normal. This translates to 60% of the sensors giving "old" or inaccurate data and weapons systems being unable to track and accurately hit whatever the pilot is indicating.

Battletechology (A non-canon magazine) issue "The Lost Issues" Actually listed all the Targeting systems and what their abilities were.

*Added Magnometer

Edited by Skylarr, 21 May 2012 - 12:39 PM.

[Major Tom]

Skylarr, on 21 May 2012 - 10:24 AM, said:

Every Mech has either all or some of the following systems:

Radar
Seismic
Thermal
Night vision

And if I recall, magnometer, which would be pretty powerful since mechs are made of metal.

[Nathiel Surefire]

Major Tom, on 21 May 2012 - 11:31 AM, said:

And if I recall, magnometer, which would be pretty powerful since mechs are made of metal.

Yes, I'm looking forward to using it. So far, it seems that radar and seismic will be combined into the overall radar display, and it's been announced that thermal vision and magnometers will be selectable as modules to kit out on your mech. From all media that's been released, so far it seems LOS will be very very important to this game.

[Kudzu]

Major Tom, on 21 May 2012 - 11:31 AM, said:

And if I recall, magnometer, which would be pretty powerful since mechs are made of metal.

Not so useful in a city or in hills with large deposits of metal.

[Striker1980]

Am I misremembering or is there something about ;Mech reactors being detectable out of LOS due to magnetics? (I can't remember if this was a reason given in MW3 for radar not needing LOS but shut down mechs being hard to spot or merely a psychotic sleep deprived episode.)

in fairness I would imagine the magnetic requirements of a reactor to be obscene. (though prob, sheilded).

[Grinner]

Striker1980, on 21 May 2012 - 12:47 PM, said:

Am I misremembering or is there something about ;Mech reactors being detectable out of LOS due to magnetics? (I can't remember if this was a reason given in MW3 for radar not needing LOS but shut down mechs being hard to spot or merely a psychotic sleep deprived episode.)

in fairness I would imagine the magnetic requirements of a reactor to be obscene. (though prob, sheilded).

Yes actually. The fusion reaction at the heart of a 'mechs power plant is maintained at very high temperature, so a magnetic "bottle" is used to contain it. In effect the reaction is held in open space by a spherical magnetic force so that it doesn't come into contact with any surface of the containment vessel. This also prevents the reactor shielding from being consumed itself by the fusion reaction. As such, yeah I imagine that would require a very powerful magnetic field, one that would show up nicely on a magnetometer regardless of intervening terrain, provided the terrain isn't magnetic itself.

[Victor Morson]

This is a good question I'm anxious to find the answer out to. It's likely all the systems we've come to know (ECM, BAP, etc.) will operate entirely differently now, in particular with scout modules and shared radar. I can't wait to see how it works out. They could seriously do an entire interview/Q&A about the radar and I'd be happy.

EDIT: I know it's old/sad, but I could only picture the topic being read in the manner of "<blank>ing magnets, how do they work?"

[Semyon Drakon]

One of the other detection systems used in canon a lot is the ability to detect different reactor 'signatures' XL engines have a different sig to normal reactors, Clan reactors are different to IS etc etc. usually though I believe you need a dropships sensors to achieve this but perhaps a module could be created that downloads said info from an orbiting system?

Semyon.

[Marric]

radar - radio detection and ranging - would be limited not only by line of sight but trees, etc.

magnetometers have limitations for the simple reason that any metal structure would limit their usefulness.

It is the interpretation of the multiple input sources that pinpoints whether or not an object is a mech or something else. However, if a mech is shut down or otherwise hidden such as near another large metallic source, under water, behind trees etc these things can reduce the number of sources that can detect the mech. This would reduce the certainty of the system. The less cetainty, the less likely the battle computer will mark something as an opposing mech. Hopefully using the terrain will be a large and interesting part of this new game.

[The Doc]

I think Magnometres should only work at short ranges, even shorter when it goes through metallic and magnetic objects as it becomes *fuzzy*

A standard Radar should show objects within your possible Line of Sight.(So at a crossroads in a city, if anything walks on the streets in front, left, right or behind you, Blip)

A light mech with a beagle probe should be able to share radar information of things within their line of sight, and also, with time and distance, be able to give updated information (Blip- Size- Chassis- Variant- Colour scheme info.)

[FrostPaw]

I just had an interesting thought, what if maps had weather conditions that affected detection, such as electrical storms that give false readings on radar.