15 replies to this topic

[Kai Harper]

I'm just curious as to what everyone else can remember that they've changed their opinions on as far as engines, weaponry, and 'Mechs in general are concerned. I'll start this off.

Engines:
At first, I was never really a fan of XL engines at all unless they were in a light 'Mech. My Centurion during beta had a standard engine, my Hunchback in beta had a big standard engine with 9 small lasers (pre-engine limit days here, we're kicking it back), and I just couldn't justify having an XL in anything bigger than 35 tons. Now, I've got a serious love for them. My lights have them, my Cicada has one, my Blackjacks have them, my Trebuchet has one, my main Thunderbolt had one until recently, my Awesome has one...yeah, I've got a love affair with them. Speed is another form of armour, in my eyes.

Weapons:
AC/20:
I could never seem to make the AC/20 work on my Founder's Hunchback - every time I tried it, I just didn't click with it. As is, I'm still a bit hesitant to use it on some 'Mechs, but I've definitely grown to love the huge boomgun when I can justify fitting it into a build I've got in my head.

PPC:
First and foremost: I *hated* the PPC to begin with. I always used to think that the medium laser was just a much better weapon overall. Better on weight, better on slots, better on heat, and more of them could be slotted to get higher damage than a single PPC could even hold a candle to, at minimal cost. Since then, I've found that PPCs when more than one are used in a build are excellent weapons - even after the range nerf. I'm still not sold on having a single one as a backup weapon in any build, but that's just from my personal experience. This view is separate from the ER PPC - I simply cannot justify the extra heat - even to get rid of the minimum range, for no extra damage. As a sniper, yes, they can be quite useful still, but they simply don't match my playstyle.

LRM:
Oh, LRMs...thou are heartless without compare. Let's start this off by saying this: I hated LRMs - everything about them - for a long, long time. I hated playing with them, I hated having them against me because of how strong they are, and I hated seeing that cloud of incoming death swarming among itself. Now, I loved how they looked when in-flight - I miss how the old school IS LRM death swarms looked - but I just hated (and still do, to a point) how many matches turned into teams just slinging LRMs at each other like two castles on opposing sides of a river who have immature lords in the respective keeps. Now, more and more builds are able to slot some launchers as support weapons, and more 'Mechs are able to have anti-LRM measures. Now I can live with it. Having steel rain blast onto your head still sucks, but there are ways to nullify it somewhat.

Machine Gun:
These little beasties I once filed away into the same category I pushed flamers into: practically useless. I've since learned the error of my ways, and love when I pilot my 4G Hunchback with an AC/10, two medium pulse lasers, a medium laser, and two machine guns. They're fun to listen to, they're fun to shred internals with, and they critseek insanely well. What's not to love, once the armour's gone on your target?



Throw your opinions in! I'd like to know!

[Mechteric]

Yes please keep taking XL engines on your heavy and assault mechs, makes my job killing you easier.


The only mechs I personally will keep with IS XL on is lights, BlackJacks, Shadow Hawks, Griffons, and I think that's about it. The amount of extra speed you get out of an equivalently tonned XL on a heavy or assault mech is just not worth how much quicker you will die. Even my AWS-9M which used to make use of the XL385 (pre CT quirk buff) had to be taken down to a STD315 (after CT buff) or so and its much beefier for it. I find I'm regularly losing my left torso and surviving the match to help the win since I still have at least half my weapons left. I may not be running around at 85kph anymore, but I'm still going over 70 which isn't bad at all.

Edited by CapperDeluxe, 19 August 2014 - 09:33 AM.

[Corbon Zackery]

Current state of weapon is this.


Paul overpowered LRMs: pushing more people back to using ECM mechs. Angle of launch is still screwed up. Downward slop angle was never fixed so most cover that's not 10 stories tall is worthless. If a light mech presses R or a Drone is launched missiles automatically curve around mountains to hit you.

Then Paul nerfed every other weapon system including machine guns. We now live in a missile warrior world.

ENG. Were still seeing in game eng. restrictions. Also the speed difference is not correct at all.
152kph 94mph yet a mech going 106kph 65mph has no issue keeping up with a mech going 94mph. This is close to a 30mph difference.

Like wise a assault mech doing 54kph 33mph has no issue shooting at and blowing a leg off of a 94mph Raven. XL are starting to be phased out of IS mech due to high alpha clan builds that can pop a torso in 2 shots. If you are using a XL you need to be screened and middle of the pack.

[Mcgral18]

Corbon Zackery, on 19 August 2014 - 09:45 AM, said:

Current state of weapon is this.


Paul overpowered LRMs: pushing more people back to using ECM mechs. Angle of launch is still screwed up. Downward slop angle was never fixed so most cover that's not 10 stories tall is worthless. If a light mech presses R or a Drone is launched missiles automatically curve around mountains to hit you.

Then Paul nerfed every other weapon system including machine guns. We now live in a missile warrior world.

I don't get how people can say this with a straight face, or without Comic Sans.

A rock barely taller than your mech will stop the missiles...IF you actually go against said rock. Angle of impact depends on two factors: Distance of the launcher, and height. Further up and farther they are, the steeper they will come. Close or lower they are, cover shorter than you might work.

[Y E O N N E]

Large Laser/ER Large Laser
I used to not be a fan of these weapons at all. The range was nice, but 5 tons for 9 damage? That's grossly inefficient as far as weight usage is concerned. Not to mention, I have to hold the beam to get the damage in one spot. I usually preferred PPCs or Large Pulse for that reason. Now, I use the ER Large on Blackjacks, Stalkers, Catapults, and sometimes Dragons. With the proliferation of Clan ERML, being able to punch back harder than what I took is satisfying.

Standard Engines
I used to think that there was no way to get effective builds in without an XL. Now, the only 'Mechs I have XL engines in are Lights and Catapults; sometimes I'll run one in the Jagermech if I feel like doing something cheesy *coughAC/40cough*. What you can do with Blackjacks, Stalkers, and Jagermechs on their faster Standard options is surprisingly potent, and the durability on some of them comes as a shock to enemies who are accustomed to XL builds on a particular chassis.

Standard Heat-sinks
Doubles are better. Period. However, there are some advantages to running singles, namely being able to squeeze in almost twice the number onto a Stalker to gain a higher heat-cap and similar dissipation.

SRM2
I used to think that running SRM4 on the Locust was superior, since I surmised the RoF advantage unnecessary due to slash and dash tactics. I was wrong. Replacing two SRM4 with four SRM2 is such a huge upgrade that it almost halves the time-to-kill on targets, owing to better precision and faster cycle. That faster cycle also makes it much more forgiving of a weapon if you miss your first salvo.

Ultra Autocannon.5
I used to think these weapons were crap. In truth, they sort of were when they had a 20% chance to jam. However, since that change it is now possible to bring even just one to a fight and have it shoot reliably enough to support your efforts. Careful pacing of the trigger can get it to fire almost indefinitely without jamming at a rate that I estimate is about one round per second. They are pretty devastating. Even better, because they are more reliable now, having only two is almost as effective as four AC/5, meaning it's now much more viable to build a standard-engine Jagermech with that kind of firepower.

[Kai Harper]

CapperDeluxe, on 19 August 2014 - 09:27 AM, said:

Yes please keep taking XL engines on your heavy and assault mechs, makes my job killing you easier.

Only got the XLs in a couple of the heavies, and only in the Awesome as far as assaults go. It's not too bad, really. If you're playing an Awesome, you've got to torso twist a lot anyway, so it's just a little more work.

Mcgral18, on 19 August 2014 - 10:15 AM, said:

I don't get how people can say this with a straight face, or without Comic Sans.

A rock barely taller than your mech will stop the missiles...IF you actually go against said rock. Angle of impact depends on two factors: Distance of the launcher, and height. Further up and farther they are, the steeper they will come. Close or lower they are, cover shorter than you might work.

Yeah, I agree with that for the most part, Mcgral. Some maps, finding LRM cover can be hard, which is where ECM works its magic pretty well. Even so, being out of line of sight is the best defense for it, since TAGs can't light you up and punch holes in your ECM bubble.

Yeonne Greene, on 19 August 2014 - 10:30 AM, said:

Ultra Autocannon.5
I used to think these weapons were crap. In truth, they sort of were when they had a 20% chance to jam. However, since that change it is now possible to bring even just one to a fight and have it shoot reliably enough to support your efforts. Careful pacing of the trigger can get it to fire almost indefinitely without jamming at a rate that I estimate is about one round per second. They are pretty devastating. Even better, because they are more reliable now, having only two is almost as effective as four AC/5, meaning it's now much more viable to build a standard-engine Jagermech with that kind of firepower.

That's kinda funny, that you mention the UAC/5. I used to run one on a Centurion, and loved it. Even when you had to manually unjam it, I still took it, because I didn't mind the risk/reward factor of using it.

[Y E O N N E]

I much prefer the current mode of operation to the old "hold for ultra" mode. That guaranteed jams at regular intervals while the new mode allows you to control it. Nowadays, the UAC/5 is solid enough that I feel comfortable running a single one on my Arrow as the main dish to just spit out damage as fast as possible. Trying to do so with the earlier UAC/5 would have been near-suicidal because I would have always been stuck with just 5 MG and three small lasers every 5th or 6th shot. For a close-range brawly build, that's suicidal.

[Ewigan]

LBX10.

I always KNEW it to be crap, what it still kinda is, BUT: It's fun.
I like it on one of my jagers instead of dual ac something i go dual lbx.
or one on my highlanders.

it is nice for kill stealing, the sound is AWESOME, and it does decent damage when you go face hugging

[Troutmonkey]

Ewigan, on 20 August 2014 - 12:55 AM, said:

LBX10.

I always KNEW it to be crap, what it still kinda is,

My Cataphract 3D with 2xLB10X and 4xML would disagree. LB10X just wrecks face up close. The extra tonnage, crit chance and higher RoF compared to the AC10 make it a great weapon for brawling. It frequently get multiple kills and 700+ damage. I also have a Shawk that combines it with SRMs for ALL of the splash damage.

Ewigan, on 20 August 2014 - 12:55 AM, said:

BUT: It's fun.
the sound is AWESOME, and it does decent damage when you go face hugging

Yes, yes it does

Edited by Troutmonkey, 20 August 2014 - 04:58 PM.

[Carrie Harder]

Clan LPL: The range is the only thing that makes this weapon bearable, well that and the nerfs to CERLL and CERPPC don't give many other choices for heavy energy...

LB 5-X: The tighter spread makes it useful outside of kissing range, unlike the LB 10-X. It also fires faster and is lighter. However, you still need at least two of them to be worth it.

[Agent 0 Fortune]

You are right about the LRM, as is they ruin the game. It may not impact the tree hugging hippy meta snipers, but it literally kills the brawl game. As soon as you lock up with someone LRMs pour in. The problem is exacerbated due to indirect fire and boating. But when 3/4 of the player base are LRM boats and meta-sexuals it is difficult to suggest change. Sadly the current game dynamic evolved in place of role warfare.

Edited by Agent 0 Fortune, 20 August 2014 - 05:39 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

Troutmonkey, on 20 August 2014 - 04:56 PM, said:

My Cataphract 3D with 2xLB10X and 4xML would disagree. LB10X just wrecks face up close. The extra tonnage, crit chance and higher RoF compared to the AC10 make it a great weapon for brawling. It frequently get multiple kills and 700+ damage. I also have a Shawk that combines it with SRMs for ALL of the splash damage.


Yes, yes it does

Even one LB-10X is fantastic in a brawl if you combine them with speed and the right set of lasers. My BJ-1DC has one and, if the team is on the ball about covering enemy LRMs, I can go on 6-8 kill rampages opening up even Timberwolves like they were tin cans.

[Sandpit]

Kai Harper, on 19 August 2014 - 08:57 AM, said:

I'm just curious as to what everyone else can remember that they've changed their opinions on as far as engines, weaponry, and 'Mechs in general are concerned. I'll start this off.

Engines:
At first, I was never really a fan of XL engines at all unless they were in a light 'Mech. My Centurion during beta had a standard engine, my Hunchback in beta had a big standard engine with 9 small lasers (pre-engine limit days here, we're kicking it back), and I just couldn't justify having an XL in anything bigger than 35 tons. Now, I've got a serious love for them. My lights have them, my Cicada has one, my Blackjacks have them, my Trebuchet has one, my main Thunderbolt had one until recently, my Awesome has one...yeah, I've got a love affair with them. Speed is another form of armour, in my eyes.

Weapons:
AC/20:
I could never seem to make the AC/20 work on my Founder's Hunchback - every time I tried it, I just didn't click with it. As is, I'm still a bit hesitant to use it on some 'Mechs, but I've definitely grown to love the huge boomgun when I can justify fitting it into a build I've got in my head.

PPC:
First and foremost: I *hated* the PPC to begin with. I always used to think that the medium laser was just a much better weapon overall. Better on weight, better on slots, better on heat, and more of them could be slotted to get higher damage than a single PPC could even hold a candle to, at minimal cost. Since then, I've found that PPCs when more than one are used in a build are excellent weapons - even after the range nerf. I'm still not sold on having a single one as a backup weapon in any build, but that's just from my personal experience. This view is separate from the ER PPC - I simply cannot justify the extra heat - even to get rid of the minimum range, for no extra damage. As a sniper, yes, they can be quite useful still, but they simply don't match my playstyle.

LRM:
Oh, LRMs...thou are heartless without compare. Let's start this off by saying this: I hated LRMs - everything about them - for a long, long time. I hated playing with them, I hated having them against me because of how strong they are, and I hated seeing that cloud of incoming death swarming among itself. Now, I loved how they looked when in-flight - I miss how the old school IS LRM death swarms looked - but I just hated (and still do, to a point) how many matches turned into teams just slinging LRMs at each other like two castles on opposing sides of a river who have immature lords in the respective keeps. Now, more and more builds are able to slot some launchers as support weapons, and more 'Mechs are able to have anti-LRM measures. Now I can live with it. Having steel rain blast onto your head still sucks, but there are ways to nullify it somewhat.

Machine Gun:
These little beasties I once filed away into the same category I pushed flamers into: practically useless. I've since learned the error of my ways, and love when I pilot my 4G Hunchback with an AC/10, two medium pulse lasers, a medium laser, and two machine guns. They're fun to listen to, they're fun to shred internals with, and they critseek insanely well. What's not to love, once the armour's gone on your target?



Throw your opinions in! I'd like to know!

http://mwomercs.com/...-mech-building/

I go into xl vs. std engines and a few other things as well. I've found that it's not so much the weapon stats but it's about the equipment being used properly.

I'm nowhere near as good with dakka as I am in my LL boats. Same with LRMs. I can use them, but I'm not going to get 1000+ damage games with them. I never, EVER use an XL on any mech that will be standing at or near the frontlines exchanging shots. That's just asking for a quick death. I use XL engines for skirmishers, long range support, fast movers, etc. If I'm going to be, or potentially, soaking damage, it's always a std engine.

AC20: It's a dual edged sword. If you miss, you've just missed with your primary weapon and managed to deal out 0 damage. If it's dakka in general that you're not "good with" as opposed to JUST the AC20, I would suggest starting with AC10s and 5s to "get a feel" for ballistics, how they work, drop, leading, etc. They're much more forgiving than the AC20 and don't limit you to short range. I didn't do very well with AC20s at first but I started using the AC10 and got much better with dakka in general. I'm not "elite" but I'm proficient now.

LRMs: Personally I think LRMs are the single most misunderstood weapon in the game. When they're boated on 2-3 support mechs they can make quick work of an enemy force that isn't paying attention to situational awareness, spotters, cover, etc. BUT on a single mech or a few mechs with 1-2 smaller launchers, they really aren't very powerful. They're also heavily reliant on a little teamwork and strategy. I usually let my LRM boats sit in the hangar unless I'm dropping in a group with teammates that I know will work with me to get damage on targets.

MGs: I'm on the fence regarding them. Their limited range makes them a very role specific weapon and unless they're boated they can be more on the "useless" side, but again I feel they do have a role. They're GREAT at shredding mechs towards the end of a fight when armor has been blown off. They'll make quick work of any mech foolish enough to ignore them.

that's my .02

[Kai Harper]

I've been around awhile, Sandpit, don't worry. I know how to build 'Mechs - just came to mind how my opinions have changed, and I thought I'd put it to everyone. =)

[Sandpit]

Kai Harper, on 21 August 2014 - 07:12 PM, said:

I've been around awhile, Sandpit, don't worry. I know how to build 'Mechs - just came to mind how my opinions have changed, and I thought I'd put it to everyone. =)

I wasn't saying you don't, I've been around a while as well but I still have to "reteach" myself sometimes

[Kai Harper]

Sandpit, on 21 August 2014 - 07:57 PM, said:

I wasn't saying you don't, I've been around a while as well but I still have to "reteach" myself sometimes

Fair point. XD