119 replies to this topic

[Joseph Mallan]

CN9 ACE PILOT, on 24 August 2014 - 02:03 PM, said:

Ah no, as i had said i did not quite understand the direction of the statement or the "Undertone" since many think sarcasm can be read.

Just thought you were bashing on artillery/airstrike because it an easy and guaranteed to increase damage.

Got it.

It can help pad damage and assists as I once watched a team mate drop arty on a Herd, and wracked up 11 assists and 600+ damage, from a near stock Firestarter.

But you have to time it right, and I was trying to do to many things at once.

[CN9 ACE PILOT]

Budor, on 24 August 2014 - 01:59 PM, said:

They/he are/is bad. And the success has been achieved by others, he was just on that team.

Hope you are joking. That's the same as Narc/ECM/tag scouts win only because they are on the winning team?

a 3.0 average, from hundreds of games, is not the result of getting lucky and carried, in fact HE carried all those teams, because he was focusing on the objective of the game mode not distracted by KDR/DMG like many bad players that don't know the difference between "Death Match" and "Capture the flag/territories/ArmingBomb/etz."

Edited by CN9 ACE PILOT, 24 August 2014 - 02:11 PM.

[Voidcrafter]

Vinhasa, on 24 August 2014 - 08:05 AM, said:

Because damage is the only measure of worth/contribution is damage, amirite?

Because having your team doing a bit less than 300 damage is ordinary a measure for a victory.
500+ is even better

[Budor]

CN9 ACE PILOT, on 24 August 2014 - 02:09 PM, said:

Hope you are joking. That's the same as Narc/ECM/tag scouts win only because they are on the winning team?

a 3.0 average, from hundreds of games, is not the result of getting lucky and carried, in fact HE all those teams, because he was focusing on the objective of the game mode not distracted by KDR/DMG like many bad players that don't know the difference between "Death Match" and "Capture the flag/territories/ArmingBomb/etz."

I am not joking at all, if someone in mwo has a 3.0w/l ratio with a below 1 kdr and does no damage at all either he is bad at the game of killing robots. Are you trying to tell me he outcapped the enemy in hundreds of games without his teammates doing the killing?

If you never break 200dmg you are simply not good at this game. This doesnt matter at all if you still have fun but its true.

Edit: Anyone that is a good Narc/ECM/tag scout breaks 200dmg EASILY if he wants to and his kdr is certainly higher than 1.

Edited by Budor, 24 August 2014 - 02:20 PM.

[CN9 ACE PILOT]

Budor, on 24 August 2014 - 02:17 PM, said:

I am not joking at all, if someone in mwo has a 3.0w/l ratio with a below 1 kdr and does no damage at all either he is bad at the game of killing robots. Are you trying to tell me he outcapped the enemy in hundreds of games without his teammates doing the killing?

If you never break 200dmg you are simply not good at this game. This doesnt matter at all if you still have fun but its true.

It's pretty sad you see it what way. Why don't you try playing an ecm/tag scouter for a while, because obviously you are not getting that this game has different roles who's job is not merely to "kill robots" but help others "Kill robots" and protect them while doing so.

p.s. Also yes, during beta 1 person could cap a base before the whole enemy team could even react, weather everyone was alive or not, winning it entirely by themselves, that's why they added turrets and made the capping slower. They would also force the whole enemy team to try to rush back to base, making it incredibly easy for their team to kill them by shooting back plates.

Edited by CN9 ACE PILOT, 24 August 2014 - 02:25 PM.

[Tangelis]

I have roughly 9000 drops under my belt (and that's only since they started tracking) and I'm not ashamed to admit that likely half of them are games with anywhere between 50 and 200 damage. Overall I am an average player....neither sucking nor elite yet despite my extensive experience still get my azz handed to me six ways from sunday.

NO doubt that sometimes the system goes awry, but overall this isn't because of ELO, the MM, nor any other ridiculous "I don't know wtf happened" so it must be PGI mentality.

Here's why: (and feel free to add to it)

- I dropped in an LRM boat and the other team had 4 ECM's..In other words I was useless from the start.
- Rounded a corner and Ooops hello Mr Direwolf. (Or a lance in general) IE: Lunch
- My XL got crit from a dam good sniper or simply a lucky shot.
- Hey... the other guy was just better than me
- Luck
- Bad Luck
- Where the frak did that Arty Strike come from.
- I capped vs fighting
- Long range game and I brought a brawler

This list can go on and on and on. We do not drop against an AI...we drop against thinking players... not to mention the variables involved with what you drop in vs what your team mates do or what the other team does.

Are there problems? Yes, I won't dispute that but when you are solo and hit the launch button you never know what your are going to get. There is no guarantee of consistency what so ever and it shouldn't be a surprise that you can follow up a 5 kill 900 damage game with a 0 kill 0 assist 67 damage one for any of the examples above.

Sub 100 damage games certainly don't reflect well on anyone. Of course I can only speak from my own experience, but for my part they don't say anything about how good or bad you are.

[Budor]

CN9 ACE PILOT, on 24 August 2014 - 02:22 PM, said:

It's pretty sad you see it what way. Why don't you try playing an ecm/tag scouter for a while, because obviously you are not getting that this game has different roles who's job is not merely to "kill robots" but help others "Kill robots" and protect them while doing so.

I play ecm lights pretty often.

People that have a 3w/l and a below 1kdr and dont break 100dmg like the guy from the screenie below are maybe 1 in 10000 the rest are simply bad at the game. To be honest given the fact how he recognized that i needed ecm cover for that flank and how he executed it with 0 communication i highly doubt he has a dmg average of 100...

I had over 10k drops before the game left beta and things like the below happened maybe 5 times in the solo queue.

I just write all of this because i remembered the guy from caustic and feel like i should recognize that there are players that MAY fall into that scheme but god help me if ive seen more than 10 in 10k solo drops, the fact alone that i screenshotted it and recalled it is a testament to how rare of an occurance that is.

I would have been dead and maybe done 500 damage if that guy in the spider wouldnt have followed me and covered me in his bubble for the whole flank.

Spoiler

The stories where i ask for ecm cover from 4 (FOUR) ecm lights standing 300m besides me and they dont even ***** move or do ANYTHING else or how i run to an ECM spider to break LRM rain from 3 boats that are in the open with no TAG and no backup weapons (FREE KILLS!) and he runs away in a completely random direction are countless...

These are the 0.65kdr 100dmg players, they are bad at the game.


To be honest though my stand on this is pretty simple. I have been playing shooters vs. other people since Doom and one thing never changed, the ones that do the damage/kills are the ones that win the games because no matter what the objective is its easier to achieve against a dead enemy.

Edited by Budor, 24 August 2014 - 02:51 PM.

[Zervziel]

Tangelis, on 24 August 2014 - 02:33 PM, said:

- I dropped in an LRM boat and the other team had 4 ECM's..In other words I was useless from the start.
- Rounded a corner and Ooops hello Mr Direwolf. (Or a lance in general) IE: Lunch
- My XL got crit from a dam good sniper or simply a lucky shot.
- Hey... the other guy was just better than me
- Luck
- Bad Luck
- Where the frak did that Arty Strike come from.
- I capped vs fighting
- Long range game and I brought a brawler

Yeah nothing sucks more than dropping in a brawler, hitting the drop button and suddenly.....Welcome to Alpine!

Or getting a slightly heat-intensive build that works fine on most maps and then the next thing you see is Caustic Valley or Terra Therma.

[Joseph Mallan]

Budor, on 24 August 2014 - 02:17 PM, said:

I am not joking at all, if someone in mwo has a 3.0w/l ratio with a below 1 kdr and does no damage at all either he is bad at the game of killing robots. Are you trying to tell me he outcapped the enemy in hundreds of games without his teammates doing the killing?

If you never break 200dmg you are simply not good at this game. This doesnt matter at all if you still have fun but its true.

Edit: Anyone that is a good Narc/ECM/tag scout breaks 200dmg EASILY if he wants to and his kdr is certainly higher than 1.

It could mean you are a damn good scout. Helping your team find and eliminate the enemy. CN9 has the gist of it, Light Mechs can fill the scout and not score lots of damage.

[Sandpit]

Budor, on 24 August 2014 - 02:17 PM, said:

Are you trying to tell me he outcapped the enemy in hundreds of games without his teammates doing the killing?

and if they have their game selection set to conquest only? Yes, that's entirely possible and plausible.

Zervziel, on 24 August 2014 - 02:45 PM, said:

Or getting a slightly heat-intensive build that works fine on most maps and then the next thing you see is Caustic Valley or Terra Therma.

I run 5LL boats
a lot
I do just fine in Caustic and Terra. If I can do it in a laser boat while running around with 5LLs, then that means it doesn't stop or prevent a player from doing the same.

[Sporklift]

Me, mainly because I'm trying to run a brawling medium with only one or no standoff weapons. Most of this game is peep shooting, which isn't all that great for brawler types because they have to operate basically in the open and don't have anyone to draw fire off of them. I could just strap on some Lrms and get straight 400+ damage (from cover) but I'm trying to do something harder and more exciting. All this while operating in a game where a single alpha can go right through my CT and out the back.

[Almeras]

"I hate traffic, you are traffic"

Anyone who played for long enough knows there little point in talking to pugs or getting upset the MM used them to balance out your uber skill. Mechwarrior is like sex everyone thinks they are good at it.

[Mister Blastman]

3rdworld, on 24 August 2014 - 08:13 AM, said:

Grimlock posted this one last night. 9 people on his team under 100.

That's like every other game for me.

[mogs01gt]

Gorgo7, on 24 August 2014 - 07:49 AM, said:

Since this competition started I have been having alot of difficulty with the teams I end up in.
Often there are four or even six players on my team who does sub 100 damage. These players are not farming, they are simply new. So new they cannot answer typed chat (or read apparently)

Is the matchmaker screwy? Before, I would drop with Pugs that had experience and could hit what they shot at. Not this weekend.

I probably have a win loss ratio of 1/3. Ouch. It has been reversed.

I don't want to play with newbs. I did that when I started over a year ago.

Why is PGI punishing me? Are they punishing you?

Please don't leave dismissive comments. I am very upset by this and need confirmation that this is not happening just to me.

So far I've been averaging around 3 players per match, last game....4.

[The Black Knight]

This has been a very large problem for me this weekend. I have played well over 30 matches, probly in the forties and have only won 12 matches. I had a high of 7 losses in a row. It would seem that me and one or two others would do well and the rest of the team would be under 200 and atleast two under 100 damage. It is infuriating to keep getting matches like this. Usually when i drop solo que its more even and there are better players on my team. I'm done with the weekend challenge. Whether its from a large number of players who havent played in a while trying to get free stuff or people shooting a few targets, dying, disconnecting and trying to win farm, I'm not having fun this weekend so im done with the challenge. I'll add that my win loss ratio in the stats section is actually almost 50/50 overall, its just this weekend that MM seems screwy.

Edited by The Black Knight, 24 August 2014 - 05:04 PM.

[Mcgral18]

Mister Blastman, on 24 August 2014 - 04:09 PM, said:

That's like every other game for me.

The PUG life awaits you.

[Wild Hamster]

Sandpit, on 24 August 2014 - 01:56 PM, said:

I'll give you another example

This exact same mentality permeates other games as well. A popular game mode in most shooters is capture the flag. If you base the "success" of a player in this mode based on how many kills they got, you're completely discounting the 5 flags they capped, the 4 flags they defended, and the 9 flags they returned to base.

Point being, damage and KDR are the worst possible stats to use to determine how well a player did in a team based game.

If a player has a .65 KDR and averages 100 damage per game but a W/L ratio of 3.0 are they "unsuccessful"?

Totally agree on that point about KDR as well

You might have a nice KDR, but how much of that comes from stealing kills and/or making two entire teams wait out a match just because you want to preserve your stats via hiding until time over?

The second scenario is soooo common these days

[Gallowglas]

You guys are focusing on the exceptions cases. Few people would argue that a scout might not have big numbers but still be a good scout and a quality contributor to the win. Short of that though, if you're pulling in sub-100 numbers, what exactly would you say that you're doing to contribute to a win? What other win condition is an Atlas or DWF going to satisfy that legitimizes the extra tonnage they took? How can you justify that you did "well"? Furthermore, how can you justify that 2/3 of the team is pulling in those numbers?

Some things might be generalizations for sure. KDR certainly doesn't tell the full story. I think we all get that. However, saying that those numbers mean nothing isn't true either. I think it's completely safe to say in the screenshot above that people were doing things severely wrong.

Edited by Gallowglas, 24 August 2014 - 05:32 PM.

[Mister Blastman]

I now have blood on my hands. I did 60 damage in a drop. Damn.

[A banana in the tailpipe]

People with high wins, low K/D ratio, and know about teamwork most likely can never decide on a mech to master so they are mediocre at everything, master of nothing but how to win. ( I may resemble that remark >.>)

Edited by lockwoodx, 24 August 2014 - 05:34 PM.