89 replies to this topic

[Tor6]

The game was much more fun back when there was no matchmaker. The way this matchmaker averages Elos so you get a mess of high and low elo players on one team is possibly the dumbest way to do a matchmaking system. Period. No other game I can think of does it that way because it's awful for both the high and low Elo players on the team. It needs to be discarded or re-written from scratch.

[Mawai]

MadTulip, on 24 August 2014 - 10:29 AM, said:

see it positive. your elo is much lower now and the next games will be easier .

Actually no ... his ELO might not have changed at all. If the matchmaker randomly puts the player on the side that is predicted to lose every time then by losing every time he would have simply proved the matchmaker correct and his ELO would not have changed.

[Mawai]

Tor6, on 24 August 2014 - 10:58 AM, said:

The game was much more fun back when there was no matchmaker. The way this matchmaker averages Elos so you get a mess of high and low elo players on one team is possibly the dumbest way to do a matchmaking system. Period. No other game I can think of does it that way because it's awful for both the high and low Elo players on the team. It needs to be discarded or re-written from scratch.

Wow .. absolutely the opposite opinion from me.

Stomps in my game play were WAY WAY more common before the current iteration of the match maker. Also, as far as I know the matchmaker tries to get everyone in a small band of ELO initially and doesn't widen the search criteria until sometime later. This keeps the average ELO on both sides close to the same and the variance small.

They should start putting up the difference in ELO between two teams and the variance/range in ELO on each team so that folks can see that ELO doesn't cause stomps ... players do

[DaisuSaikoro Nagasawa]

Losses happen? Can people just take some personal responsibility and realize that they're not going to win every game. The ELO 1:1 should work over the entire course of ones gaming with some people performing better and some people performing less. Get over it and stop blaming PGI (though I realize a long loss can be quite frustrating... everyone goes through a slump... (I did after I got my 40th win.... a long 8+ game loss. I didn't post about it).

[Iron Frost]

Maybe the ELO calculator cant find a bracket low enough for your skill level. Consider that?

What's your overall win/loss record - just curious?

[Kutfroat]

Tor6, on 24 August 2014 - 10:58 AM, said:

The game was much more fun back when there was no matchmaker. The way this matchmaker averages Elos so you get a mess of high and low elo players on one team is possibly the dumbest way to do a matchmaking system. Period. No other game I can think of does it that way because it's awful for both the high and low Elo players on the team. It needs to be discarded or re-written from scratch.

actually world of tanks has the same crappy matchmaker, and that was what made me quit. because you know that after a few good games, there will be games that you are meant to lose to achieve that bull.sh.it 50% winrate. games dont become more challangeing, they just become stomps that are decided by matchmaking before the match. that was the feeling in wot, and it gets similar more and more in this game. elo is for sologames (1 vs 1)...especially when only rated on winrate and no other factors, biggest fail ever. turn off elo, Balance by 3/3/3/3 - and i mean force it, make people wait if they only want to play heavy/assault, and maybe balance factors like ecm...i believe more close games will happen (just by randomnesss) than now.

Edited by Kutfroat, 24 August 2014 - 01:52 PM.

[DAYLEET]

Iron Frost, on 24 August 2014 - 01:32 PM, said:

What's your overall win/loss record - just curious?

I am also wondering that, my win ratio is stable at a hair over 1 and i never get bad streak loss ever. I think i can remember once having a streak loss of 6, 2 will happen often but then win streak of 2 happen too. PGI has to come clean about exactly how elo works. I can most always determine when the other team flat out played better or when we just made bad decision or even had bad luck, most of the time saying it's because your team is bad is overly simplistic and stupid. And that comes from a guy who like to write snarky sarcastic comment to his team every once in a while.

Kutfroat, on 24 August 2014 - 01:47 PM, said:

because you know that after a few good games, there will be games that you are meant to lose to achieve that bull.sh.it 50% winrate. games dont become more challangeing, they just become stomps that are decided by matchmaking before the match.

The matchmaker will put you versus players of the same caliber as you which is exactly why you don't win them all, how hard is that to understand?

Edited by DAYLEET, 24 August 2014 - 01:55 PM.

[Dibster]

I get wonderful carryfests such as these on a frequent basis:

[S13gtastic]

I wouldn't mind seeing Elo thrown to the wind and an honest to god ladder system put it so you can play among peers and a casual play for no holds bar herp derpery. Match maker is such a cruel and hatefull *****, you can almost tell when it's on the rag and being a fire breathing monster.

[BourbonFaucet]

35 losses in a row.

I quit, you can keep your prizes. Before anyone says, "it's you", I'm doing the absolute best I can, I'm being as tryhardy as I can possibly get. There's just better tryhards out there right now.

Edited by Techorse, 24 August 2014 - 02:14 PM.

[Carrie Harder]

The MM would probably be at least somewhat better if it didn't average together a team's elo.


The average is useful for a number of things, but balancing player ability is not among its uses. Due to the way the average is calculated, it is inherently vulnerable to outliers, which drag the end result down or up with them. In the context of this game, it can and does result in skilled/experienced players dropping with people who literally just downloaded the game being placed on the same team and same match. Such should only happen if skilled players choose to group up with unskilled players for some odd reason, or if they're playing in a custom match.

The median might be a better statistic for rating a team's elo, because it isn't nearly as weak to outliers. One or two really high or really low values won't drag the whole team up or down if a median was used instead of an average.

[S13gtastic]

Techorse, on 24 August 2014 - 02:11 PM, said:

35 losses in a row.

I quit, you can keep your prizes. Before anyone says, "it's you", I'm doing the absolute best I can, I'm being as tryhardy as I can possibly get. There's just better tryhards out there right now.

I ran into that tryhardy moment last night, when started seeing names from the Mech Specs forums I knew my evening was over, was like seeing The Wild Hunt claim everyone on my team, only problem was none of us could run, hide, or join.

[Joseph Mallan]

151st Light Horse Regiment, on 24 August 2014 - 10:17 AM, said:

12 losses in a row now.

Thanks PGI, keep up the good work.

What's your over all Win loss Horse?

[Turist0AT]

151st Light Horse Regiment, on 24 August 2014 - 10:17 AM, said:

12 losses in a row now.

Thanks PGI, keep up the good work.

Youve been too good. Time for elo to make a change muhahahaha

Edited by Turist0AT, 24 August 2014 - 03:57 PM.

[Budor]

I have lost 5+ games in a row countless times. Its really frustrating if you do top dmg/kills every single time and still lose but at least you can flame general chat and cry on the forums

[Willard Phule]

You do realize this thread is on it's way to K-town, right? As soon as a moderator gets to work on Monday and sees all those screenshots with the names not blacked out, this whole thing is gone.

Tell them I said "hi" when you get there.

[mogs01gt]

This is one of the few games were if you didnt have teammates,,,,,the game would be playable...

[Dibster]

I don't want a dueling game. I just want to be matched with and against other proficient players. It doesn't help me or the newbie to put us on the same team or against each other.

Edited by Dibster, 24 August 2014 - 04:53 PM.

[Sandpit]

Sometimes it's not Elo that's the problem....

Team
Solo
Group
Loadouts
Poor play
discos
suiciders
etc.

That's just a very quick and short list of things that contribute to losses. TO blame any one singular thing is usually going to be a major over simplification.

[Mawai]

S13gtastic, on 24 August 2014 - 02:09 PM, said:

I wouldn't mind seeing Elo thrown to the wind and an honest to god ladder system put it so you can play among peers and a casual play for no holds bar herp derpery. Match maker is such a cruel and hatefull *****, you can almost tell when it's on the rag and being a fire breathing monster.

I am confused here. The only difference between Elo and a ranking system is that with the PGI Elo system you don't know what your rank is. How do you create "an honest to god ladder system" in a team game? Team work generally counts for more than damage output. A team of 12 will always defeat 12 solo heroes no matter how good they are ... add equivalent amounts of team work to both sides and the one with the better players will usually win. So how do you place players on a ladder when all there is to be evaluated are team outcomes?

You could try ranking on kills/assists and total damage ... then the highest ranked players could be those who have bad aim but get off a lot of shots while hiding behind the rest of their team mates ... they survive the match, get lots of kills and assists, do immense amounts of damage ... and may be useless team players. I'm not suggesting that the highest scoring players actually play that way ... but it is a playstyle that would lead to a high rank if performance is measured solely on damage/kills/assists.

On the other hand, the system PGI is applying calculates whether your team might be expected to win or lose based on the overall Elo score calculated for the team. If they meet expectations (win or lose) nothing changes ... if one side wins when expected to lose the Elo rank of the players on the winning side goes up while the losing side goes down. Over enough matches, the players individual contribution to winning or losing whether that is through doing damage, organizing the team, providing intel and motivation or whatever contribution that player makes to the team outcome ... gets included in the Elo score ... and hopefully results in more even matches.