121 replies to this topic

[n r g]

Sandpit, on 24 August 2014 - 12:42 PM, said:

So after another in a long list of "solo" vs. "groups" I had a thought.


The only difference between "solo" and "group" (I use "" because there's no such thing as "solo" in MWO, you're on a team in a team-based game regardless of whether it's 11 other random teammates or 11 teammates you formed up with prior to launching) is Voip. That's the only advantage group players have over solo players.

That's why the group queue and solo queue were separated. So what happens when Voip is implemented in game (which PGI has stated will get implemented)? If Voip is the sole advantage, what happens when that advantage is made available to all players? Do we no longer need separate queues? Does that makes separate queues "obsolete" at that point?

I'm curious as to the rest of the community's thoughts on this one.

maybe not, but the players running groups will always generally be better since these tend to be actual units/teams vs. just pug randoms who have VOIP in game....

[Joseph Mallan]

Eglar, on 24 August 2014 - 01:52 PM, said:

Matchmaker can not compensate so you get some random guys as opponents. Dropping as a 4 man leaves your team more margin for "bad teammates", "roleplay-stockmech", "hollanderfirestarterplayers". Of course Voip and other stuff makes a difference but if you get to pick your teammates and happen to pick from a pool of superior players what happens is that you will win. it's simple like that.

I remember dropping last time with a 12 man lords premade was more about "let's try to beat them under 3 minutes" rather than "let's win"

So the Lords do Shenanigans drops Like the Law does... Only with time limits! Cause What you labeled roleplay-stockmech and Hollander Firestarter drop is our "Lest have some fun and blow off steam.

[Khobai]

Quote

Possibly but once the "advantage" of Voip is gone, what's the point?

At that point everyone is on equal footing. There's no "unfair" advantage at that point. There's no gap in tools available for all players.

being in a group is an advantage regardless of what tools are available.

because youre guaranteed to get 3 other players on your team that arnt terrible and that you know will actually listen to orders given over VOIP

[Sandpit]

Roland, on 24 August 2014 - 01:52 PM, said:

Not sure how you don't understand the advantage of playing with your team vs. randoms, even if you have comms.

For instance, in CoD on XBox, everyone has comms... but coordinated teams have an advantage over pugs. And thus, they have a solo queue... although most solo players play in the regular queue anyway.

uhm no they don't. You drop in a game lobby with or without a team. You don't have a "no groups allowed" queue. You ahve "hardcore" and "normal" game modes with different damage and health values but you don't have a "solo" queue where the only people you play against are solo players not in a team.

Joseph Mallan, on 24 August 2014 - 01:56 PM, said:

Hmmm. Your argument kinda reinforces my 1). Those who play together more, work together better, they have an advantage over Lil billy and the 11 random players on his team. You said you thought VOiP was the "only" advantage teams have, witch isn't quite true.

No, I'm saying players that practice are going to be better. Players who play more are going to be better. That's not a "solo" vs. "group" issue, that's a skill issue. That's an issue for MM to sort out by helping to ensure players are only facing off against players with similar skill levels

I'll be completely honest. The thought and/or motive behind this thread is trying to get an idea of what everyone feels that group advantage vs. solos are so we can start to think about ideas that can help bridge that gap.

[Dahnyol]

How do you guys even rationalize against having built in Voice comm?

Pros:
It's easy to implement (look at the last 5 years of games)
It encourages communication (NEW players can LEARN instead of just get bitched at in chat they can't read?)
It improves PUG gameplay, why is GROUP even considered? You can MUTE others if you just want to stay in your little circle. It wouldn't change how it is without voice comm in this case.
People could meet others and form groups more easily.
The entire game is based on team play...

Please give me a legitimate CON...
"People will just spam" - You can mute
"The advantage will wear off when everyone understands the game!" - wtf? I can't even understand this. You always want new players to grow the community.
"omg 12v12 too hard to organize" - How does anything work in the real world? Leaders take charge and those who ignore can be muted. Voicecomm won't encourage bad play anymore than chat does due to functioning MUTE buttons.


There are no legitimate claims that adding voice communication will diminish game play anymore than it would without it. Muting everyone and typing is the same exact thing.

If anything arguing against it just means you don't know how to talk to strangers for the first time.

If it has been 2 years for a simple fix, devs=0 *****, as long as ya'll still buying up that sweet MC for more hero mech releases.

[Roland]

Sandpit, on 24 August 2014 - 02:10 PM, said:

uhm no they don't. You drop in a game lobby with or without a team. You don't have a "no groups allowed" queue. You ahve "hardcore" and "normal" game modes with different damage and health values but you don't have a "solo" queue where the only people you play against are solo players not in a team.

No, they have a no groups allowed queue.. generally it's called the "Mercenary" queue, where grouped players can't join.

[Sandpit]

Roland, on 24 August 2014 - 02:11 PM, said:

No, they have a no groups allowed queue.. generally it's called the "Mercenary" queue, where grouped players can't join.

I've played both CoD (well black ops and the latest release) and BF for years now and I've never seen a "solo only" queue?

[Roland]

Sandpit, on 24 August 2014 - 02:14 PM, said:

I've played both CoD (well black ops and the latest release) and BF for years now and I've never seen a "solo only" queue?

Well it's generally there... Not sure about BF, as I have very rarely played it, but CoD has had a Merc queue on XBox going back to Modern Warfare.

It's not always there though, as they sometimes mix up the queues... Sometimes they only have the Merc queue for certain game types, like Mercenaries Mosh Pit where it's various objective based games, etc.

As I said, it was never super popular compared to the "real" queue.. but they generally always have at least one Merc queue.

[Sandpit]

Roland, on 24 August 2014 - 02:19 PM, said:

Well it's generally there... Not sure about BF, as I have very rarely played it, but CoD has had a Merc queue on XBox going back to Modern Warfare.

It's not always there though, as they sometimes mix up the queues... Sometimes they only have the Merc queue for certain game types, like Mercenaries Mosh Pit where it's various objective based games, etc.

As I said, it was never super popular compared to the "real" queue.. but they generally always have at least one Merc queue.

Never seen it, I've seen the hardcore or normal options but that doesn't affect your ability to drop in a group.

Regardless, that's getting off-topic.

So group advantages
Voip
Familiarity
Force composition (as far as being able to coordinate who is taking what before the launch)

anything else?

[Willard Phule]

Me, I can't wait for VOIP.

I don't get enough Miley Cyrus in my life...I can't wait for someone with a fuzzy mic to blare it over the comms.

Oh, and the people that speak anything other than English. Man, I can't wait to learn how to say "please lock targets" in some Slavic language.

Man, it'll be great.

[Sandpit]

Willard Phule, on 24 August 2014 - 02:46 PM, said:

Me, I can't wait for VOIP.

I don't get enough Miley Cyrus in my life...I can't wait for someone with a fuzzy mic to blare it over the comms.

Oh, and the people that speak anything other than English. Man, I can't wait to learn how to say "please lock targets" in some Slavic language.

Man, it'll be great.

See I don't get comments like this. Not only is that prevented but it's EASILY prevented by including a mute option. This shouldn't even be a factor

[Dahnyol]

Willard Phule, on 24 August 2014 - 02:46 PM, said:

Me, I can't wait for VOIP.

I don't get enough Miley Cyrus in my life...I can't wait for someone with a fuzzy mic to blare it over the comms.

Oh, and the people that speak anything other than English. Man, I can't wait to learn how to say "please lock targets" in some Slavic language.

Man, it'll be great.

Holy **** man, maybe you do need more Miley Cyrus. Doesn't sound like you talk to anyone outside of a 2 block radius.

Sandpit, on 24 August 2014 - 02:49 PM, said:

See I don't get comments like this. Not only is that prevented but it's EASILY prevented by including a mute option. This shouldn't even be a factor

^ x100

[Asmudius Heng]

As much as some people hate VOIP i think it would do amazing things in the solo queue.

Most of the time i do not try to herd pugs, it is a thankless task and i find the time taken to type things in that are even slightly complex means i am having less time to move and kill players.

The amount of teamwork i get for my efforts typing is way less effective than the gauss rounds i am slinging downrange.

VOIP though ... means you can do very quick communications "Target Alpha he has a weak CT" or more complex ones "Let's take out lance around the side of the hill and flank them - but if we encounter resistance lets fall back real quick."

Trying to do that in text is just too damned hard.

Will people listen? Yes, when a REAL person is talking it has a lot more weight than if you are typing. Will everyone listen? No of course not - some are idiots, some might have a different idea and do not want to do yours.

But given a tool to communicate i bet you will see tighter groups, better focus fire, better flanking actions and the like, and less people being left behind, or running off like an idiot and dying - it wil happen still but it will be LESS.

Not to mention people might find more friends after a good game and a laugh and add them to the friends list. Units will find it much easier to recruit and that is a good thing.

Even in the group queue, my small group can talk on TS - but a push to talk to communicate with the other groups will help against those 12 mans rolling through etc etc

VOIP needs to happen and any of the bad stuff can be muted and ignored because the advantages are huge

The pace of Mechwarrior really makes those who communicate so much more effective.

[Joseph Mallan]

Willard Phule, on 24 August 2014 - 02:46 PM, said:

Me, I can't wait for VOIP.

I don't get enough Miley Cyrus in my life...I can't wait for someone with a fuzzy mic to blare it over the comms.

Oh, and the people that speak anything other than English. Man, I can't wait to learn how to say "please lock targets" in some Slavic language.

Man, it'll be great.

Miley Cyrus???

Psshaw!

Yoko Ono!

[WarHippy]

Joseph Mallan, on 24 August 2014 - 04:28 PM, said:

Miley Cyrus???

Psshaw!

Yoko Ono!

You are showing your age with that name drop.

[Asmudius Heng]

Joseph Mallan, on 24 August 2014 - 04:28 PM, said:

Miley Cyrus???

Psshaw!

Yoko Ono!

Now now children ... there are plenty of terrible musics you can inflict upon the unsuspecting no need to fight.

[Sandpit]

as funny as that was please keep it on-topic guys. I'd really like to know if anyone has any other advantages they feel a group enjoys over solo players.

[Triordinant]

As far as I'm concerned, PGI can try anything as long as the solo queue and group queue remain separate.

[Screech]

I will give you credit for trying to keep the dream alive.

[WarHippy]

Sandpit, on 24 August 2014 - 04:42 PM, said:

as funny as that was please keep it on-topic guys. I'd really like to know if anyone has any other advantages they feel a group enjoys over solo players.

I think you pretty much have it covered.

Voip
Familiarity
Force composition (as far as being able to coordinate who is taking what before the launch)

Triordinant, on 24 August 2014 - 04:45 PM, said:

As far as I'm concerned, PGI can try anything as long as the solo queue and group queue remain separate.

If they add in game voip I see no reason to keep them apart.