121 replies to this topic

[Triordinant]

Joseph Mallan, on 24 August 2014 - 06:55 PM, said:

Thing is, the game was being developed to be a recreation of the Clan Invasion. So groups of Inner Sphere players would play against groups of Clanners. How do PUGs feel they "fit" within this?

When I first got in Closed Beta, I actually expected the Clans to be AI enemies that forced the normally competitive Houses to stop infighting and work together to meet the threat. House units and merc corps would battle on the important planets while the solo queue players would be militias and the like fighting in border skirmishes (and sometimes hastily thrown in as reinforcements in the big battles). Since the Clans were "just" AI, their 'mechs could retain their OP tabletop stats.

[Roland]

Way back in the day, there was supposed to be some component of community warfare that was going to take place prior to the clan invasion.

But then... Derp.

So we aren't really going to get to see the pure house on house infighting that we should have gotten.

[Joseph Mallan]

I knew it would be PvP. I agree having Clans be AI would have made it more like BattleTech But would have made many upset not being allowed to BE Clanners.

[Triordinant]

Sandpit, on 24 August 2014 - 07:03 PM, said:

YOu don't have to be a "pro" to train, practice, and improve. This is why there's no distinction between amateur teams and pick up games.

You do if you want to train, practice and improve together as a team. A "pro" team is people able to commit to the time and effort to train and play together consistently and intensively. This is why there's not just a distinction, there's a big distinction,

Roland, on 24 August 2014 - 07:11 PM, said:

Way back in the day, there was supposed to be some component of community warfare that was going to take place prior to the clan invasion.

But then... Derp.

So we aren't really going to get to see the pure house on house infighting that we should have gotten.

I feel really bad about that. It's like they sped things up just to sell Clan 'mechs.

[Tarl Cabot]

Joseph Mallan, on 24 August 2014 - 06:55 PM, said:

Thing is, the game was being developed to be a recreation of the Clan Invasion. So groups of Inner Sphere players would play against groups of Clanners. How do PUGs feel they "fit" within this?

That really depends on how PUG will be setup with CW, doesn't it? And there are still pieces missing, be it planetary/district/theater lobbies, and hopefully a more user-friendly unit invite. Right now those more likely to run in unit formations because they are part of a unit, in contact with each other, logging into their VOIP server or log into the NGN something server to form ad hoc units.

I hope for things that the previous versions of MPBT but I have also come to the realization that PGI started MWO as a single player game with multiplayer capabilities, with the players creating their own ways to communication, etc, while maybe providing a FFA-solo queue type play like MSN Zone and Mektek Mercs did with MW4/Merc.

And if one was to take a poll, most who are playing MWO likely played in the Zone/Mektek and had not been involved with MPBTs or the MW4 Leagues.

[cSand]

Eglar, on 24 August 2014 - 01:37 PM, said:

Drop in a 12 man lords premade and then drop Solo, there is your difference. And good luck MM finding the appropriate elo range.

Never really understood why there is so much c**k sucking of the supposed "elite groups" around the forums (in any game)

Self important douchebaggery is still self important douchebaggery whether you're good at video games or not, I don't care how many casual players your supergroup can roll in under 3 minutes. We're all super impressed

Any group of dudes who practice constantly at a game should be able to roll everyone. Having comms in PUG queue will not even the odds...

Edited by cSand, 24 August 2014 - 09:13 PM.

[Sandpit]

Triordinant, on 24 August 2014 - 07:13 PM, said:

You do if you want to train, practice and improve together as a team. A "pro" team is people able to commit to the time and effort to train and play together consistently and intensively. This is why there's not just a distinction, there's a big distinction,

A "pro" team is a team that makes it their job and earns their living doing it. There are no "pro" teams in MWO that I know of.

I understand what your'e getting at and I actually agree with you. I just don't agree that it has a place in discussions about "advantages" because that's an advantage that every single player can have. Practice, become better. Want to know why some players do well in both queues? It's because they practice and know how to play the game well regardless of whether they have a group with them or not. What your'e talking about comes down to things like focusing fire, prioritizing targets and stuff like that.

Triordinant, on 24 August 2014 - 07:13 PM, said:

I feel really bad about that. It's like they sped things up just to sell Clan 'mechs.

There should be zero doubt about that. They shut down the entire company's production for 6 months to get those 10 mechs out "in time" (in time for what I dunno because it's not like they needed clan mechs out there for any other reason besides revenue)

[Ultimax]

It goes beyond VOIP.

1) Familiarity with each other's playstyles.
2) Ability to balance the team comp.
3) Knowing the other players you are bringing won't be derps, will stick together and try to shoot the same things.


Most teams in the solo queue, if you even suggest some kind of a guideline or plan will get you nothing but post-teenage level snark - because half the team thinks it's cool to be a jerkwad.

[n r g]

Kyle Wright, on 24 August 2014 - 04:55 PM, said:

The downside of VOIP would be the verbal abuse and the constant trolling.

Mute button man, christ , get out and play some real competitive games.

[RussianWolf]

Sandpit, on 24 August 2014 - 06:11 PM, said:

They're complaining about new players when they have absolutely no idea what their or the other players' Elos are. They also base it on "He's in a champion mech so he's new". I don't know how well Elo works in MWO because we dont' our personal Elos but I know how the Elo system works in general. It's also very possible that some of those "elite" players aren't quite as "elite" as they thought

I agree with you. Just that is what I see a lot of. They assume Champion means new, yet I have a half dozen champion mechs in addition to the trials. Guess I'm a noob to them.

[n r g]

Mickey Knoxx, on 24 August 2014 - 06:23 PM, said:

Solo que is just bad. Add VOIP and then allow groups back into the same que against the solo. There
will be NO reason to have them separated if those who say "we are just as good, but need comms" are correct.

Nah, VOIP for solo que, and mixing it with group que will still get you *****.

There's no way any randoms even on VOIP, would come close to even denting a top 3 or top 5 team, in let's say RHoD (since there are no other leagues out atm for MWO).

VOIP yes, it should have been here along time ago, frankly it's sad and just speaks testimony to how PGI aren't viewing this game in a competitive sense. With that being said, it's not too late and would help enrich the solo que experience. A lot of times it's too hard to type out to the team directions/instructions in the midst of battle.

[Sandpit]

Ok so the general consensus seems to be

Voip
Coordination
Force Composition
Practice

That seems to be the ones everyone agrees upon at least

E N E R G Y, on 24 August 2014 - 08:03 PM, said:

There's no way any randoms even on VOIP, would come close to even denting a top 3 or top 5 team, in let's say RHoD (since there are no other leagues out atm for MWO).

let's keep the scenarios realistic. average players (regardless of group or solo) aren't facing top 3 or 5 players and/or teams

[n r g]

Sandpit, on 24 August 2014 - 08:09 PM, said:

Ok so the general consensus seems to be

Voip
Coordination
Force Composition
Practice

That seems to be the ones everyone agrees upon at least


let's keep the scenarios realistic. average players (regardless of group or solo) aren't facing top 3 or 5 players and/or teams

I would say, the majority of groups running along, are much more, much more, experienced that the solo puggers (hence why I don't think merging the que's is a good idea)

TBH, I 've definitely had some bad experiences in the solo que, but NOTHING as horrible as before pre-patch, where I would drop against 3-9 competitive teams.

Merging them would be a bad idea, I'm 110% sure of it. Just take the VOIP and run with it

[MischiefSC]

Sandpit, on 24 August 2014 - 08:09 PM, said:

Ok so the general consensus seems to be

Voip
Coordination
Force Composition
Practice

That seems to be the ones everyone agrees upon at least


let's keep the scenarios realistic. average players (regardless of group or solo) aren't facing top 3 or 5 players and/or teams

I never use VoIP and still drop with groups and do alright.

VoIP is only useful for that top 5% match performance.

Far more relevant is familiarity with each other, coordination and *knowing what you're supposed to be doing*.

Having a plan can even turn a group of pugs into a well oiled machine. It's just having a plan, knowing where you fit into it and being both willing and able to execute it.

[Kilo 40]

It's not about solo vs group, it's about organized vs unorganized.

pugs will still be at a disadvantage. How much of a disadvantage remains to be seen. but it has less to do with VOIP and more to do with being organized, knowing their teammates, and knowing what everyone else is running and having a plan ahead of time.

[Phearless047]

Not sure if this has already been covered, but I feel like this is a great time to mention that I'd really like to see some 1v1 or FFA options in this game. I can't be the only one that feels that way.

[Asmudius Heng]

MischiefSC, on 24 August 2014 - 10:23 PM, said:

I never use VoIP and still drop with groups and do alright.

VoIP is only useful for that top 5% match performance.

Far more relevant is familiarity with each other, coordination and *knowing what you're supposed to be doing*.

Having a plan can even turn a group of pugs into a well oiled machine. It's just having a plan, knowing where you fit into it and being both willing and able to execute it.

Kilo 40, on 24 August 2014 - 10:33 PM, said:

It's not about solo vs group, it's about organized vs unorganized.

pugs will still be at a disadvantage. How much of a disadvantage remains to be seen. but it has less to do with VOIP and more to do with being organized, knowing their teammates, and knowing what everyone else is running and having a plan ahead of time.

Both mentioned having and following a plan.

1. VOIP makes it far easier to explain a plan.
2. Plans must change in the game at certain points and that is harder to communicate when in battle

Organisation comes form communication ... without good communication tools PUGs will always be disorganised.

I have seen when PUGs do get organised and of course they win, both sides having a semblance of organisation will promote better games and better players.

I just want to see VOIP and a commo-rose system to reduce comms clutter and i will enjoy both group and solo queues.

[Kilo 40]

Asmudius Heng, on 24 August 2014 - 10:40 PM, said:

Both mentioned having and following a plan.

1. VOIP makes it far easier to explain a plan.
2. Plans must change in the game at certain points and that is harder to communicate when in battle

Organisation comes form communication ... without good communication tools PUGs will always be disorganised.

I have seen when PUGs do get organised and of course they win, both sides having a semblance of organisation will promote better games and better players.

I just want to see VOIP and a commo-rose system to reduce comms clutter and i will enjoy both group and solo queues.

yes but VOIP isn't going to be much help when half the team doesn't speak the same language

[MischiefSC]

Or speak into it at all, or not have it muted, or speak anything intelligent. I don't want to hear 99.999% of people who play this game.

[The Wakelord]

I'm not sure why people think VOIP is a magic equaliser of dedicated teams verses random individuals. More importantly, I'm not sure why Sandpit is reliably ignoring this or misunderstanding this.

Sandpit: Training as a team & training repeatedly with the same team is different to individual skill & ability.

Here is what I feel are some key considerations for what would be different if VOIP was implemented, and why the 2 queues should remain separate.

a) Serious groups are organised & have training for how to work with each other. As others have said at length they can (1) trust their team (2) effectively co-ordinate builds with their team.

b ) The individual skill levels are a small consideration here. It is how the team works as a whole. A team that has practiced with the other members of its team will be much more fluid & reliable.

c) Serious groups are like-minded to a certain extent, so they can focus on the game. They do not need to be pressing keys to mute certain (or all) players. Muting players now also means they have no VOIP, and thus at a disadvantage. MWO is a pretty hate filled game, so chances are I'd have the chat muted 2/3rds of the time.

d) Casual groups are not much different to PUG. They do not co-ordinate much and this is where I fall in myself. I play mechs I like with friends, and we do not train together or particularly learn each other's tactics. The only real different comparing a casual group to a PUG is that the level of communication is higher because (1) we speak the same language (2) we are friends (or friends-of-friends) so we generally listen to suggested ideas

e) PUG lobbies are not going to have the care factor often to make complementary builds. Up to 4 players may have both the care factor & the correct mech to complement some of the other players. The remaining players will be silent or surly (compared to a serious group where 50-100% of the team will playing complementary)

f) PUG players are often dickheads. As an example when asked 'what's the plan' the reply 40% is "kill the enemy!", 40% is silence, and 20% is someone offering the stock-standard tactics (take the mountain)

g) VOIP will not remove PUG players who want to go lone wolf. They will mute you & ignore your screams of anger.

Edited by The Wakelord, 25 August 2014 - 01:35 AM.